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Forums :: Blog World :: Bill Meltzer: Meltzer's Silly Season Musings: JVR and Nash
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RooNosHockey
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Bear, DE
Joined: 10.25.2011

Jun 11 @ 5:08 PM ET
Off topic Rant.

Why is it pumpkin products can only be eaten and drank 3 months out of the year? As if they aren't tasty the other 9 months? You can't have Pumpkin pie in the summer? No pumpkin flavored ice-cream? No Pumpkin flavored Latté's. Why? It's not fair. What if crack was only available only 3 months of the year? What if chicken was....? Would we stand for this? Have farmers not figured out how to grow pumpkins year round? I know some pot-heads I could introduce them to that could give them some pointers.... Is it a government conspiracy? We can put pumpkins in everything from beer to coffee, can we use it to fuel cars? I want my pumpkin!
RooNosHockey
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Bear, DE
Joined: 10.25.2011

Jun 11 @ 5:09 PM ET
An Open Letter to Pumpkin-Flavored Seasonal Treats.

BY Ilana Plen
- - - -Dear Pumpkin-Flavored Seasonal Treats,

So you’re back. You just come waltzing into town like nothing has happened, like nothing has changed. Don’t look at me like that. You’re the one who left for a year with no explanation, no warning. No note. And I’m just supposed to be okay with that?

Well, I’m not. A lot has changed in the last year. I’ve moved on. I tried going vegan, did you know that? Of course you didn’t. You know why? Because you never bothered to call and check in. I had a fling with peppermint in December, but that didn’t last long. I never really got over you.

Do you know what it was like for me after you disappeared? I was a wreck. I couldn’t get out of bed; there was nothing to look forward to. I started visiting the places we spent time together, on the off chance you might be there. But no matter where I went, the fact was that you were gone. Worst of all, it seems that I was the only one who noticed. Signs advertising your presence remained up. Commercials encouraging me to consume you in mass quantities flooded my television and haunted my dreams. You were everywhere and nowhere, all at the same time.

If I had realized how temporary your presence in my life would be, I would have done things differently. I would have cherished the time we spent together more. I would have taken more pictures. I would have told you I loved you each and every single day. If only I knew it was all going to end, I would have planned ahead. I would have stocked up. If only.

But like I said, things are different now. I’ve changed. I’m strong now. I’m not the same girl who needed you, yearned for you and cried when you weren’t around. I am an independent, self sufficient woman, who refuses to be tied down. Especially to something that can’t handle hanging around for more than a three month period of time. So screw you, you commitment phobic piece of crap.

You’ve got a lot of nerve coming back here. How dare you look me in the eye? Do you think I’m dumb? Do you think I don’t realize that since you’ve come back, you’ve flirted with every person you pass on the street, tempting them with your elusive charms and intoxicating scent? You jerk. You big jerk. I trusted you. I thought we had something special. And now you’ve gone and thrown it all away. Again. God, I’m stupid. I’m so stupid. I hate you. I really, really do.

Wait. I’m sorry. Maybe I’m being too hard on you. I don’t know. I’ve put so much into this relationship already. Maybe it’s better to just try again. A blank slate, so to speak. It’s still early in the season. We still have time; we can still make it work. What do you say? How about a drink? For old time’s sake? But please, whatever you do. Don’t ever leave me again.

I love you,
Ilana Abby Plen
JoeRussomanno
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: me bitter? F-no i think it's hilarious
Joined: 12.14.2011

Jun 11 @ 5:10 PM ET
An Open Letter to Pumpkin-Flavored Seasonal Treats.

BY Ilana Plen
- - - -Dear Pumpkin-Flavored Seasonal Treats,


I love you,
Ilana Abby Plen

- RooNosHockey

was this an excerpt from the dear abby section of your newspaper?
RooNosHockey
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Bear, DE
Joined: 10.25.2011

Jun 11 @ 5:12 PM ET
was this an excerpt from the dear abby section of your newspaper?
- JoeRussomanno


No something I read and made me giggle. I thought I would share, since I just had my Pumpkin rant....

Talking about Starbucks made me think of Pumpkin coffee and how much I wished it was year round...
landros 2
Season Ticket Holder
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Centre of universe
Joined: 02.07.2007

Jun 11 @ 5:28 PM ET
You can make the same statement for any player justifying a contract, no one knows what the future is going to hold. JVR already has a 20+ goal season and iirc won a team skills competition. Wildly inconsistent is nothing new for a young power forward.

What you just wrote above is the classic example of fans being impatient. Injuries are bound to happen and do happen. Any player is susceptible to them and the few that don't are just that few. So 2010-2011 he was wildly inconsistent and still put up 21 goals. By what you are saying is all he needs to do is become more consistent which is nothing out of the realm or ordinary for a player in his early 20's. Remember he didn't have the time to groom in the Juniors either, he went from NJ highschool hockey to UNH to the NHL and still has a 20 goal season under his belt when guys with better upbringing struggle to do so.

- JoeRussomanno



His best season was a 39 point season.....which if you remember ...he failed to score in the first 16 games.....I am not impatient at all with him, but I am also a realist . Granted every player isn't going to be as defensively responsible as Sean Couturier, at such a young age....4 years younger then JVR.... but he has struggled in that aspect as well. He refuses to use his size.. He simply looks disinterested at times.
While his 21 goals is nothing to sneeze at it doesn't justify a 5 mill a year guy. They obviously paid him thinking he will develop further. No question the talent is there but is the mental makeup?
His lack of Junior is not relevant...his decision was to go to the NCAA rout. In some cases that rout is better for the player as the competition is mainly older and stronger....although you don't play as many games. I Wont suggest he is a bust but I would suggest your impression of the player is being seen through orange colored
glasses.
As a Flyers fan I hope I'm wrong but I won't hold my breath.
MJL
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Candyland, PA
Joined: 09.20.2007

Jun 11 @ 5:32 PM ET
His best season was a 39 point season.....which if you remember ...he failed to score in the first 16 games.....I am not impatient at all with him, but I am also a realist . Granted every player isn't going to be as defensively responsible as Sean Couturier, at such a young age....4 years younger then JVR.... but he has struggled in that aspect as well. He refuses to use his size.. He simply looks disinterested at times.
While his 21 goals is nothing to sneeze at it doesn't justify a 5 mill a year guy. They obviously paid him thinking he will develop further. No question the talent is there but is the mental makeup?
His lack of Junior is not relevant...his decision was to go to the NCAA rout. In some cases that rout is better for the player as the competition is mainly older and stronger....although you don't play as many games. I Wont suggest he is a bust but I would suggest your impression of the player is being seen through orange colored
glasses.
As a Flyers fan I hope I'm wrong but I won't hold my breath.

- landros 2


He's not looking through orange colored glasses at all. Your failing to take into consideration all of the aspects involved. And showing a definite lack of patience. JVR has shown signs of coming on. His Season was entirely derailed by injury. He didn't get much of a chance to build on his playoff performance the previous Season.
nastyflyergirl
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: this space for rent, PA
Joined: 09.19.2006

Jun 11 @ 5:37 PM ET
FORWARDS
Scott Hartnell ($4.200m) / Claude Giroux ($3.750m) / Zach Parise ($7.000m)
Wayne Simmonds ($1.750m) / Danny Briere ($6.500m) / Jakub Voracek ($3.000m)
Brayden Schenn ($3.110m) / Sean Couturier ($1.375m) / Matt Read ($0.900m)
Eric Wellwood ($0.580m) / Maxime Talbot ($1.750m) / Zac Rinaldo ($0.544m)
DEFENSEMEN
Kimmo Timonen ($6.333m) / Andrej Meszaros ($4.000m)
Braydon Coburn ($4.500m) / Ryan Suter ($7.000m)
Nicklas Grossmann ($3.500m) / Andreas Lilja ($0.738m)
Marc-Andre Bourdon ($1.250m) /
GOALTENDERS
Ilya Bryzgalov ($5.667m)
Martin Biron ($1.000m)

SALARY CAP: $70,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $68,446,944; BONUSES: $2,705,000
CAP SPACE (21-man roster): $1,853,056

- Jimmygrazz



so you have 1.83 to fill out the 3 roster positions and space for any necessary injury callups. not much wiggle space there if in my opinion
rockychocbill
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: The Off Season
Joined: 07.04.2008

Jun 11 @ 5:39 PM ET
No something I read and made me giggle. I thought I would share, since I just had my Pumpkin rant....

Talking about Starbucks made me think of Pumpkin coffee and how much I wished it was year round...

- RooNosHockey


You need to move to Canada, Roo. Pumpkin year round up here.

http://www.starbucks.ca/menu/beverage-list

Plus it's the 25th Anniversary year for Starbucks in Canada and to celebrate, coffee is on @ $.25 a cup until 11:00am tomorrow.
JoeRussomanno
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: me bitter? F-no i think it's hilarious
Joined: 12.14.2011

Jun 11 @ 5:39 PM ET
His best season was a 39 point season.....which if you remember ...he failed to score in the first 16 games.....I am not impatient at all with him, but I am also a realist . Granted every player isn't going to be as defensively responsible as Sean Couturier, at such a young age....4 years younger then JVR.... but he has struggled in that aspect as well. He refuses to use his size.. He simply looks disinterested at times.
While his 21 goals is nothing to sneeze at it doesn't justify a 5 mill a year guy. They obviously paid him thinking he will develop further. No question the talent is there but is the mental makeup?
His lack of Junior is not relevant...his decision was to go to the NCAA rout. In some cases that rout is better for the player as the competition is mainly older and stronger....although you don't play as many games. I Wont suggest he is a bust but I would suggest your impression of the player is being seen through orange colored
glasses.
As a Flyers fan I hope I'm wrong but I won't hold my breath.

- landros 2


what difference does it make if he didn't score in the first 16 games of a season? Even the best players go through such droughts and to think a second year or third year player wouldn't is ridiculous. A number of things can be attributed to the cause of that.

You say you are being patient but you already called him a bust and pretty much wrote him off when he's just getting started. Not going through the juniors is completely relevant and is known to prepare players more rapidly than playing in the NCAA. IF I'm seeing through orange colored glasses I guess you;re trying to look through a blindfold.
Jsaquella
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Bringing Hexy Back
Joined: 06.16.2006

Jun 11 @ 5:45 PM ET
His best season was a 39 point season.....which if you remember ...he failed to score in the first 16 games.....I am not impatient at all with him, but I am also a realist . Granted every player isn't going to be as defensively responsible as Sean Couturier, at such a young age....4 years younger then JVR.... but he has struggled in that aspect as well. He refuses to use his size.. He simply looks disinterested at times.
While his 21 goals is nothing to sneeze at it doesn't justify a 5 mill a year guy. They obviously paid him thinking he will develop further. No question the talent is there but is the mental makeup?
His lack of Junior is not relevant...his decision was to go to the NCAA rout. In some cases that rout is better for the player as the competition is mainly older and stronger....although you don't play as many games. I Wont suggest he is a bust but I would suggest your impression of the player is being seen through orange colored
glasses.
As a Flyers fan I hope I'm wrong but I won't hold my breath.

- landros 2


The developmental route the player takes is often a big factor in his readiness for the NHL. Another guy that took the NCAA route was John LeClair, and his stats at age 22 are horrible compared to JvR's.

LeClair also had a lot of the same knocks that we hear about JvR-not physical enough, skating not a strength, doesn't use size to his advantage. When a player goes the major junior route, he's facing tougher competition than JvR faced in high school and even the USDT.

Comparing him to Couturier is kind of pointless, given that Couturier had a NHL player to learn from growing up.

Before getting hurt, JvR was on a 40 goal pace. Would he have reached that? Possibly, and if he gets to play on Giroux's line, he could easily put up really good numbers next season
RooNosHockey
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Bear, DE
Joined: 10.25.2011

Jun 11 @ 5:46 PM ET
You need to move to Canada, Roo. Pumpkin year round up here.

http://www.starbucks.ca/menu/beverage-list

Plus it's the 25th Anniversary year for Starbucks in Canada and to celebrate, coffee is on @ $.25 a cup until 11:00am tomorrow.

- rockychocbill


*sigh*

edt: *le sigh*
landros 2
Season Ticket Holder
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Centre of universe
Joined: 02.07.2007

Jun 11 @ 5:47 PM ET
He's not looking through orange colored glasses at all. Your failing to take into consideration all of the aspects involved. And showing a definite lack of patience. JVR has shown signs of coming on. His Season was entirely derailed by injury. He didn't get much of a chance to build on his playoff performance the previous Season.
- MJL


It's a matter of opinion.....there have been signs of a very talented player....you don't go 2nd overall with out reason...there have also been signs of a player who will be an ordinary player....I don't need to point out his flaws...they have been on display...well sometimes....for the last few years... If he does stay in Philly I guess we'll see...but for now, my view of JVR remains unchanged , and if he's the guy needed to land a top d man or a Rick Nash type player, I hope they pull the trigger.
JoeRussomanno
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: me bitter? F-no i think it's hilarious
Joined: 12.14.2011

Jun 11 @ 5:51 PM ET
It's a matter of opinion.....there have been signs of a very talented player....you don't go 2nd overall with out reason...there have also been signs of a player who will be an ordinary player....I don't need to point out his flaws...they have been on display...well sometimes....for the last few years... If he does stay in Philly I guess we'll see...but for now, my view of JVR remains unchanged , and if he's the guy needed to land a top d man or a Rick Nash type player, I hope they pull the trigger.
- landros 2

so an ordinary player is what we need to get a top-dman or a Rick NAsh (which we don't need btw)?
Jsaquella
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Bringing Hexy Back
Joined: 06.16.2006

Jun 11 @ 5:52 PM ET
Want a really good reason not to pursue Rick Nash?

In the summer of 2014, when Nash has 3 years left at that $7.8mm, Claude Giroux will be a RFA. Think his agent isn't going to point at Nash's salary with a big smile on his face while the Brink's truck backs up to the Wells Fargo Center?

Guess who else is going to need new deals that year? Bryaden Schenn and Sean Couturier. Yeah that $7.8mm is going to look real good that summer
landros 2
Season Ticket Holder
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Centre of universe
Joined: 02.07.2007

Jun 11 @ 5:53 PM ET
The developmental route the player takes is often a big factor in his readiness for the NHL. Another guy that took the NCAA route was John LeClair, and his stats at age 22 are horrible compared to JvR's.

LeClair also had a lot of the same knocks that we hear about JvR-not physical enough, skating not a strength, doesn't use size to his advantage. When a player goes the major junior route, he's facing tougher competition than JvR faced in high school and even the USDT.

Comparing him to Couturier is kind of pointless, given that Couturier had a NHL player to learn from growing up.

Before getting hurt, JvR was on a 40 goal pace. Would he have reached that? Possibly, and if he gets to play on Giroux's line, he could easily put up really good

numbers next season

- Jsaquella




What does an NHL father do for a sons defense ???? For every Sean Couturier there's a Brett Hull.

And so what he was on a 40 goal pace......he fined with 11 ...which is a 21 goal pace...
MJL
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Candyland, PA
Joined: 09.20.2007

Jun 11 @ 5:55 PM ET
It's a matter of opinion.....there have been signs of a very talented player....you don't go 2nd overall with out reason...there have also been signs of a player who will be an ordinary player....I don't need to point out his flaws...they have been on display...well sometimes....for the last few years... If he does stay in Philly I guess we'll see...but for now, my view of JVR remains unchanged , and if he's the guy needed to land a top d man or a Rick Nash type player, I hope they pull the trigger.
- landros 2


And I guess these signs your seeing of inconsistency are out of the ordinary for a young player? And it's out of the ordinary for a young player to have parts of his game that are underdeveloped? There's a reason why they say that players develop at different rates. It sure sounds to me like your looking for an immediate payoff and aren't willing to grant any development time for him as a player. Again, do you give any credence to the fact that his entire Season was derailed by injuries. Which could've been the year he took some big steps and spring boarded from the confidence he got from his play in the playoffs. With every post your critiquing JVR as if he's a finished product and isn't still a developing player.
Crimsoninja
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Dude, I am so sorry about whatever made you like this. Take it easy.
Joined: 07.06.2007

Jun 11 @ 5:56 PM ET
Want a really good reason not to pursue Rick Nash?

In the summer of 2014, when Nash has 3 years left at that $7.8mm, Claude Giroux will be a RFA. Think his agent isn't going to point at Nash's salary with a big smile on his face while the Brink's truck backs up to the Wells Fargo Center?

Guess who else is going to need new deals that year? Bryaden Schenn and Sean Couturier. Yeah that $7.8mm is going to look real good that summer

- Jsaquella

i think the Cups could ease the pain
nastyflyergirl
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: this space for rent, PA
Joined: 09.19.2006

Jun 11 @ 5:56 PM ET
Want a really good reason not to pursue Rick Nash?

In the summer of 2014, when Nash has 3 years left at that $7.8mm, Claude Giroux will be a RFA. Think his agent isn't going to point at Nash's salary with a big smile on his face while the Brink's truck backs up to the Wells Fargo Center?

Guess who else is going to need new deals that year? Bryaden Schenn and Sean Couturier. Yeah that $7.8mm is going to look real good that summer

- Jsaquella



you read my mind to a tee.
MJL
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Candyland, PA
Joined: 09.20.2007

Jun 11 @ 5:57 PM ET
Want a really good reason not to pursue Rick Nash?

In the summer of 2014, when Nash has 3 years left at that $7.8mm, Claude Giroux will be a RFA. Think his agent isn't going to point at Nash's salary with a big smile on his face while the Brink's truck backs up to the Wells Fargo Center?

Guess who else is going to need new deals that year? Bryaden Schenn and Sean Couturier. Yeah that $7.8mm is going to look real good that summer

- Jsaquella


To be honest, Giroux is going to get his regardless if Nash is here or not.
rockychocbill
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: The Off Season
Joined: 07.04.2008

Jun 11 @ 5:57 PM ET
*sigh*

edt: *le sigh*

- RooNosHockey


RooNosHockey
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Bear, DE
Joined: 10.25.2011

Jun 11 @ 5:57 PM ET
you read my mind to a tee.
- nastyflyergirl


There is 2 of you that think the same way. Thats scary.

j/k
JoeRussomanno
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: me bitter? F-no i think it's hilarious
Joined: 12.14.2011

Jun 11 @ 5:58 PM ET
To be honest, Giroux is going to get his regardless if Nash is here or not.
- MJL

Yea but are the Flyers going to keep all those players with a Nash here? it's a good possibility but you're going to have to shed salary somewhere else. In the grandscheme of things with his cap hit I don't think it's a necessity at this point or in the future. The Flyers have enough offense.
ob18
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: That matters less than you hope it does
Joined: 07.20.2007

Jun 11 @ 5:58 PM ET
There is 2 of you that think the same way. Thats scary.

j/k

- RooNosHockey


I think it is scary
rockychocbill
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: The Off Season
Joined: 07.04.2008

Jun 11 @ 5:59 PM ET
Want a really good reason not to pursue Rick Nash?

In the summer of 2014, when Nash has 3 years left at that $7.8mm, Claude Giroux will be a RFA. Think his agent isn't going to point at Nash's salary with a big smile on his face while the Brink's truck backs up to the Wells Fargo Center?

Guess who else is going to need new deals that year? Bryaden Schenn and Sean Couturier. Yeah that $7.8mm is going to look real good that summer

- Jsaquella


$7.8M looks like a freakin bargain compared to the $4M that David Jones just got.
wilsonecho91
Season Ticket Holder
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: A dream to some...a nightmare to others, AK
Joined: 11.13.2007

Jun 11 @ 6:01 PM ET
http://deadspin.com/59175...ter&utm_medium=socialflow
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