So, looking back, do you guys still think we got fleeced on the Penner deal?
- StayTunedMTC

Yes with a caveat.
Penner has finally started playing the hockey people have been waiting years for him to care enough to play, but I'm betting it won't last. The Oil had no chance of making the playoffs with Tambi at the helm so if he had played as well for us for a month (which is not certain) it wouldn't have been important enough to justify his contract, let alone the 2 1st round d-men we got for him. If we can't develop either of those prospects the trouble is likely with our system. Edmonton clearly gained more than we lost, even though we lost a 30-goal scorer, which is much less than LA gained.
Now, the question is did LA get fair value? The answer is that if they win the Cup (which seems likely) then they didn't completely lose the deal. Also, if Penner has actually changed his ways (and it is uncommon for adults to make lasting, permanent changes to their natures) and quits being fat, slow, lazy and uncaring, then LA still didn't win the trade, but they didn't lose badly.

But hey, if you feel winning the Cup makes this deal worth it, more power to you! Maybe we can make another trade or two next year... *makes finger pyramid of evil contemplation* Mua-ha-ha!

Yes with a caveat.
Penner has finally started playing the hockey people have been waiting years for him to care enough to play, but I'm betting it won't last. The Oil had no chance of making the playoffs with Tambi at the helm so if he had played as well for us for a month (which is not certain) it wouldn't have been important enough to justify his contract, let alone the 2 1st round d-men we got for him. If we can't develop either of those prospects the trouble is likely with our system. Edmonton clearly gained more than we lost, even though we lost a 30-goal scorer, which is much less than LA gained.
Now, the question is did LA get fair value? The answer is that if they win the Cup (which seems likely) then they didn't completely lose the deal. Also, if Penner has actually changed his ways (and it is uncommon for adults to make lasting, permanent changes to their natures) and quits being fat, slow, lazy and uncaring, then LA still didn't win the trade, but they didn't lose badly.

But hey, if you feel winning the Cup makes this deal worth it, more power to you! Maybe we can make another trade or two next year... *makes finger pyramid of evil contemplation* Mua-ha-ha!
- thefullnelson

The team that wins the cup wins the trade. Plain and simple.

Exactly. You don't normally draft for current positional need. Unless you already have 3 young forwards! Plus, articles like this are so annoying. Its not like this guy has any clue about these kids. Just got through this garbage with the baseball draft. People think their team should pick so and so, and then get mad when they don't meanwhile outside of the scouts and Pierre Mcguire, NO ONE watches enough of these kids to make any kind of guess, assessment or anything about them. Whatvever. I guess its all in fun.

Though I find it amusing that last week this guy was like "The Oilers 100 percent take Yakapuv" now its "no one realizes how close the internal discussion is"

bottom line: if the Oilers select another forward they shoud fire their general manager.
- Jimmy_T

....Pierre McGuire just got cited as a man who knows anything about anything! HULK SMASH!

The team that wins the cup wins the trade. Plain and simple.
- Leafs43

Awesome! We can make another deal!
(for maximum comedic effect, picture this spiel given by that skeezy ShamWow guy)
...So we've got this kid, Linus Omark. Real great stickhandler, hard to move off the puck, great option on the 2PP. Sure, everyone says he's got a terrible attitude, but these are the same morons who wanted Penner gone! Now, we realize Omark doesn't have the proven track record of Penner so we're willing to let him go for a real bargain basement price. We figure your next year's first 2 draft picks.

But wait! Act now and we'll let him go for only your first pick. AND there's more! If you call in the next five minutes, we'll pay the GST, AND the shipping and handling. Incredulous... I mean, trained operators are standing by!

The team that wins the cup wins the trade. Plain and simple.
- Leafs43

Seriously, though... I understand your point. But IMO if one of the D-men goes on to spend 10 years as an Oiler and Penner immediately regresses, you still got fleeced, Cup or no Cup.

Seriously, though... I understand your point. But IMO if one of the D-men goes on to spend 10 years as an Oiler and Penner immediately regresses, you still got fleeced, Cup or no Cup.
- thefullnelson

The only point of trading is to win the cup. LA will almost certainly do that with Penner. It was a good trade for both teams, but the winner in my mind is the team who receives the most benefit.

Player who is a significant piece of a cup winner is better than two young defenseman.

I have had the same conversation with leaf fans about the Kaberle trade to Boston. Sure, we got significant assets, but Boston got the cup, they win.

The team that wins the cup wins the trade. Plain and simple.
- Leafs43

Using that logic... Here's a scenario for the upcoming season. The Pens trade Malkin for Hordichuck, and the Pens end up winning the cup! Yay!!! Penguins won the trade!!!

Using that logic... Here's a scenario for the upcoming season. The Pens trade Malkin for Hordichuck, and the Pens end up winning the cup! Yay!!! Penguins won the trade!!!
- laughs2907

Pretty much. Winning the cup is all that matters. Any trade that leads to a cup win is a good one.

Would you rather have Malkin and no cup?

Using that logic... Here's a scenario for the upcoming season. The Pens trade Malkin for Hordichuck, and the Pens end up winning the cup! Yay!!! Penguins won the trade!!!
- laughs2907

Just like the argument the Seguin is better than Hall because the Bruins won the cup. Gotta love logic.

Pretty much. Winning the cup is all that matters. Any trade that leads to a cup win is a good one.

Would you rather have Malkin and no cup?
- Leafs43

I'm glad you're not the Oilers manager. Just because a team wins the cup, that does not mean that they automatically won every trade they were involved in that year. That's crazy talk... You know better than that.

Just like the argument the Seguin is better than Hall because the Bruins won the cup. Gotta love logic.
- freelancer

No kidding... OMG!!!! Fraser >>>>> Datsyuk

The only point of trading is to win the cup. LA will almost certainly do that with Penner. It was a good trade for both teams, but the winner in my mind is the team who receives the most benefit.

Player who is a significant piece of a cup winner is better than two young defenseman.

I have had the same conversation with leaf fans about the Kaberle trade to Boston. Sure, we got significant assets, but Boston got the cup, they win.
- Leafs43

eh... I see your logic, and Kaberle is a great example of why I just can't fully agree. Boston really lost a lot of organizational depth and talent on that deal (Colborne was #16 overall so that makes 2 1st rounder and a 2nd for a guy they let walk for nothing).

Sure it's great to win the Cup, and maybe I'm being a spoiled Oilers fan, but it is actually possible for the same team to win more than one Cup. The fourpeat is pretty much impossible in today's NHL, but I entertain halfway plausible hopes of 3 Cups in 7 years for my fledgling dynasty. Getting 2 #1s for Penner, who was not a good long-term fit here (he scored 30 goals and the fans hated him... either the fans are idiots or watching him play 82 games in a row tells you things about him that reading his stats do not) is a success for the franchise in my books, and the more I think about it the more I think the Penner trade is much better than the Kaberle trade. I mean, at least Penner has played a decisive role (and I don't just mean the series clinching goal I mean he has genuinely upped his compete level and been a difference-maker) whereas Kaberle... well... 11 assists in 25 games in the playoffs, yet the team let him go for nothing after overpaying for him. Either they're idiots, or, once again, the stats don't tell the whole story.

Yes Boston won the Cup and that's what we're here for, but that trade really, really set the overall talent level of the franchise back. Elite teams that make these deals don't remain elite teams for very long.

The team that wins the cup wins the trade. Plain and simple.
- Leafs43

Guess Boston hosed you guys in the Kaberle trade eh?

I'm glad you're not the Oilers manager. Just because a team wins the cup, that does not mean that they automatically won every trade they were involved in that year. That's crazy talk... You know better than that.
- laughs2907

I cant think of a trade during a cup year that I would consider the cup team losing. If that makes sense.

Guess Boston hosed you guys in the Kaberle trade eh?
- TheTaoOfSemenko

Yup, i already mentioned that.

Im not saying it wasnt a good trade for the Leafs, but the team that gets the most benefit from the trade wins.

Yup, i already mentioned that.

Im not saying it wasnt a good trade for the Leafs, but the team that gets the most benefit from the trade wins.
- Leafs43

Go to a Bs thread sometime and ask them what a big help he was. They'll tell you they couldn't have been happier when he left and that he had almost nothing to with their Cup win. His presence on a Cup winner doesn't mean jack, and even they know Burke got the better of that particular trade.

The team that gets the best players in the trade in the end wins. Penner was complete crap all year and because he's decided to actually play for a few games hardly means they won the trade. Guaranteed he'll be back to his old self next year once he has a new deal. He's been good but I would argue that they probably could have done it without him, and if LA had missed the playoffs which they almost did, it would be an unquestioned steal of a trade.

Your logic on this is out to lunch.

I cant think of a trade during a cup year that I would consider the cup team losing. If that makes sense.
- Leafs43

Interesting.

Go to a Bs thread sometime and ask them what a big help he was. They'll tell you they couldn't have been happier when he left and that he had almost nothing to with their Cup win. His presence on a Cup winner doesn't mean jack, and even they know Burke got the better of that particular trade.

The team that gets the best players in the trade in the end wins. Penner was complete crap all year and because he's decided to actually play for a few games hardly means they won the trade. Guaranteed he'll be back to his old self next year once he has a new deal. He's been good but I would argue that they probably could have done it without him, and if LA had missed the playoffs which they almost did, it would be an unquestioned steal of a trade.

Your logic on this is out to lunch.
- TheTaoOfSemenko

I concede that my definitive statement that any trade that leads to a cup is a good one is wrong. I didnt explain myself well.

But should LA win the cup, I still say they win the trade. Regardless of how Penner played in the season, he stepped up in the post season and is a major contributor to their winning. A first and Teubert is well worth it.

Another Faksa prediction . I swear if something that crazy actually happens Burke doesn't even need to come back from the draft.

Go into the draft and need a top center, so let's go and draft a #2 center! It's not like the Leafs are lacking guys who can fill that not #1 center role. If they don't feel confident in taking Grigorenko (which I still think would be a dumb move considering since Sundin left they've done nothing to fill this need via draft or anywhere else) then take the D and in that case I'd probably go with Rielly. Just take the skill and figure things out later.

I concede that my definitive statement that any trade that leads to a cup is a good one is wrong. I didnt explain myself well.

But should LA win the cup, I still say they win the trade. Regardless of how Penner played in the season, he stepped up in the post season and is a major contributor to their winning. A first and Teubert is well worth it.
- Leafs43

But if some how the Devils win the next 3 then the Oilers win the trade???

But if some how the Devils win the next 3 then the Oilers win the trade???
- abware

I sort of agree and disagree with his logic. For the most part, EDM has won that trade by far, and penner has failed. However, he has been pretty key to LA in these playoffs, but I still think they would do well without him.

I sort of agree and disagree with his logic. For the most part, EDM has won that trade by far, and penner has failed. However, he has been pretty key to LA in these playoffs, but I still think they would do well without him.
- JamieS

A key player for 18 out of the 102 games he's played with LA

A key player for 18 out of the 102 games he's played with LA
- TaterNuts

I'm glad Burke didn't acquire Pancake Penner.

I'm glad Burke didn't acquire Pancake Penner.
- JamieS

He will this summer

Pretty lame draft, no real top end talent...a bunch of meh after the first few picks. I don't see any special players, but then again it's nearly impossible to tell at this point.