You do realize you are talking about a 5 year NHL veteran whose numbers have fallen the last two seasons and his maturity has not improved at all. Also when Kane is Nash's age he may not be making clowns of goalies as a hawk. He is a FA in 3 seasons.
- moylander

I would still rather wait on what the 'Hawks say publicly and let the matter play out by itself. All we have is a kid whose had repeated issues with drinking, no criminal offences filed against him and a bunch of speculation by many, many folks, including bloggers.

The biggest problem I have with many of these comments regarding Kane is that he's assumed to be guilty of criminal and/or civil charges.

Nash is a better player than Kane, so how would they be a worse team? Seriously, the only thing going for Kane in this deal is the age difference. There is the high cap hit for Nash, but what do you think Kane and Toews' cap hits will be when they need to be re-upped? Easily $7M+!!! Nash is one of the premiere top 2 or 3 power forwards in hockey!! For a team lacking size and a force around the net, Nash is one of the best there is. Big players with quick hands and top-end skill are MUCH more valuable than small playmaking players. You aren't going to get a player like Nash for a bunch of spare parts; you have to give up something of significance. If Bowman was asked for Kane earlier in the year for Nash, he should have made the deal!!!
- hawks2010

Didn't word it right: meant to say, if the deal wasn't at least something like Nash, they should pass.

I would still rather wait on what the 'Hawks say publicly and let the matter play out by itself. All we have is a kid whose had repeated issues with drinking, no criminal offences filed against him and a bunch of speculation by many, many folks, including bloggers.

The biggest problem I have with many of these comments regarding Kane is that he's assumed to be guilty of criminal and/or civil charges.
- blackhawk24

I personally don't care about the Madison incident. Yeah it's embarrassing but let marketing and PR deal with that. I care about his lackadaisical work ethic, his poor defensive play, and his lack of physicality (20 hits per season).

Sure he can pot 25 goals and get 45 assists. So can a lot of others that might be a better 'team fit'.

Maybe I'm jaded..... I've managed high performing employees before that have terrible work ethic. Employees that are always partying the night before, show up when they want to (if they aren't calling in sick), and for the most part don't take work serious..... But again they are still top performers...... You can't image the effect that has on the rest of the team when they see what one of these guys can get away with. I'll take top tier work ethic over top tier talent any day.

There is no way you can trade Kane now. None.

It's a Catch 22 situation. You keep him and you work with him to fix his issues and the PR from a success story goes through the roof or it flops and you're left holding the goods. If you trade him you're going to get fleeced. If you get fleeced you'll have everyone on the SB's back saying how he got fleeced and how SB should get fired for it blah blah blah. The same mating call everyday in forums just like this.

At least by keeping him you have a 50/50 chance at success but trading him NOW you are definitely going to get fleeced there is no if's, and's or but's. The trade for Nash that was mentioned earlier: Kane, Stalberg, Hammer, and Pirri for Nash and Methot minus the #2 overall pick is what getting fleeced is. Then every clown out there will come gunning for SB and how awful the trade was but their the one's who pushed for Kane to get traded in the first place.

It's a critical situation but keeping Kane is the only smart thing to do now. You can fix Kane. They have the money and technology to do so. In fact it's a pretty easy fix but the motives might be questionable. If you want to strike at the heart of Kane's problem you have to target his family. Get some reporter with no ethics (Fox news) to go to his parents house and ask them about Kane's problem and dig for a family angle. Suggest the problem is the parents and how they are the cause of Kane's issue. It's called guilt.

Kane will get pissed and this will shock his system. If he loves his family and he see's the shame he brings them he will right his own ship. In fact the organization will rally around him to support him thus building a stronger bond between player and ownership. It's a scared straight tactic so to speak. Of course there are more harsher ways to scare him straight but this is the softest of the ways to do it.

If you want to trade Kane you should have done it last offseason when his STOCK WAS HIGH not when his STOCK IS FALLING. Any good logical person will tell you that. Only cowards bail on a 23 year old, who might have issues because you want to save face.
- scorerstouch

Were not supposed to make insinuations regarding politics... Against the rules...

I really would not at all be interested in that documentary. Congratulations on the psychology degree though.

Not being a coward. Just trying to win now and do what is best for the team. The Hawks trading really good players hitting their prime is nothing new and worked really well when they moved Savard. They've bonked enough big deals the last 20 years where they should be due for a good one.

All right, guys - let's go...

...Devils? Kings?

Who?
- StLBravesFan

Ditka

Two moves - Kane for Getzlaf straight up.

then Hawks make a play for Chris Stewart who will be the result of cost cutting measure with new ownership in St. Louis, in lieu of Perron or Oshie IMO.

Toews-Hossa-Sharp
Getzlaf-Stalberg-Stewart
Bolland-Frolik-Bickell
Kruger-X-X

Getlaf on the point returns the Hawks to elite PP status.
- GuyForget

I would want to package pirri and some other junk in there for a few picks

I personally don't care about the Madison incident. Yeah it's embarrassing but let marketing and PR deal with that. I care about his lackadaisical work ethic, his poor defensive play, and his lack of physicality (20 hits per season).

Sure he can pot 25 goals and get 45 assists. So can a lot of others that might be a better 'team fit'.

Maybe I'm jaded..... I've managed high performing employees before that have terrible work ethic. Employees that are always partying the night before, show up when they want to (if they aren't calling in sick), and for the most part don't take work serious..... But again they are still top performers...... You can't image the effect that has on the rest of the team when they see what one of these guys can get away with. I'll take top tier work ethic over top tier talent any day.
- moylander

I don't care about the Madison thing either. Camera phones are everywhere. If they were around 40-50 years ago, there'd be permanent "evidence" against the Golden Jet.

I think some on-ice ethic has improved, especially defencively. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying he's in line for the Selke.

He's not physical, not at all, even tying up other players; let alone clobbering someone. He's just not that player. I don't expect him to clobber anyone. I do however expect him to be a 3-zone player, especially when he's at centre.

Part of that feeling you have I believe is being jaded, that's fine. You've too been on that end of managing what appears to be high-performers but bad ethic.

This is a 'Hawks FO job and coaching staff job, fix his work ethic. Just imagine Tazer's opinion. I'd be it was Tazer himself that had the run-in with Kane in 10-11.

But just work ethic alone doesn't get the ultimate results; good but not great. I too had those folks but not being a top performer found me with an overall talent shortfall.

Ditka
- fattybeef

Statute of limitations has expired here. Every time I see his name now, I feel like I'm going to puke.

I don't know if you've ever traded options on the market..... But I see Kane as an options contract. He can go up or down based on performance, off ice antics, and/or environmental factors like other teams trade needs, FA market, cba negotiations, etc. the only constant is time. The closer Kane gets to the end of his contract the older he will be, the less his 'perceived potential' will be, and the less years he will be locked under contract. If you hold him until his contract expires and he doesn't resign you get zero back.

The question is...... Do you trade him and if yes...... When is the best time to do so? last off season was the perfect timing IMO....... Ok..... So the hawks kept him and more time has elapsed and his value dropped...... Do the hawks gamble that over the next year he shapes up and improves his value or will they be sitting here again in one year with an older Kane and even less time remaining on his contract? of course I don't know the answer.

Personally.... I cut my losses and get Toews a partner he doesn't need to babysit and that doesn't take shifts off. I.e. Nash if Columbus is willing to take on another Jeff Carter experiment.
- moylander

My former brother in law (a good guy) has made a lor of money trading options, and his brother even more.

You frame the argument well.

You do realize you are talking about a 5 year NHL veteran whose numbers have fallen the last two seasons and his maturity has not improved at all. Also when Kane is Nash's age he may not be making clowns of goalies as a hawk. He is a FA in 3 seasons.
- moylander

exactly. When was the last time Kane took over a game ? He played "better" when Toews went out but where was his focus all year ? If you had Nash with Toews ,Nash could have 100 points

Didn't word it right: meant to say, if the deal wasn't at least something like Nash, they should pass.
- StLBravesFan

I think the Hawks would have to get a legit—and good—top 6 guy back: Getzlaf, Ryan, Nash, Pacioretty.

I think the Hawks would have to get a legit—and good—top 6 guy back: Getzlaf, Ryan, Nash, Pacioretty.
- John Jaeckel

Agreed , I think thats possible.

I personally don't care about the Madison incident. Yeah it's embarrassing but let marketing and PR deal with that. I care about his lackadaisical work ethic, his poor defensive play, and his lack of physicality (20 hits per season).

Sure he can pot 25 goals and get 45 assists. So can a lot of others that might be a better 'team fit'.

Maybe I'm jaded..... I've managed high performing employees before that have terrible work ethic. Employees that are always partying the night before, show up when they want to (if they aren't calling in sick), and for the most part don't take work serious..... But again they are still top performers...... You can't image the effect that has on the rest of the team when they see what one of these guys can get away with. I'll take top tier work ethic over top tier talent any day.
- moylander

2 for 2.

I think the Hawks would have to get a legit—and good—top 6 guy back: Getzlaf, Ryan, Nash, Pacioretty.
- John Jaeckel

A guy like Kane dishing the puck to Perry could be worth Ryan and Getzlaf ?? Maybe ??

I think the Hawks would have to get a legit—and good—top 6 guy back: Getzlaf, Ryan, Nash, Pacioretty.
- John Jaeckel

Agreed - and then all you've done is traded equals - moved deck chairs around on the Andrea Doria (my lifetime).

Haven't solved any of the problems (except for the "Kane" problem) that we've talked about since January.

I would want to package pirri and some other junk in there for a few picks
- fattybeef

Guess what - Brandon Pirri is going to make it in the NHL somewhere, maybe not Chicago under Q but he will play in the league at some point because he has offensive skills.

And considering what the Blackhawk powerplay had to offer this year, you could do worse than having him on that unit.

Agreed , I think thats possible.
- mrpaulish

Oh, absolutely.

See, I don't think scott Howson will get a bigger name offered to him for Nash than Patrick Kane. Other teams might offer a package of players that wuld help the Jackets more.

But Howson is not just replacing Nash's talent on the ice, he is replacing the Jackets' face of the franchise, and number one marketing chip.

As Al and some others know, I know the Columbus market very well. And I will tell y uo that a package of Brandon Dubinsky, Michael del Zotto and a goalie prospect will not get people in Columbus excited. Those guys could really help the Jackets, but most fans in OH barely know who they are. I'm not sure Ryan Getzlaf would be that much of a splash.

Patrick Kane on the other hand . . .

The two guys I think are on the block right now, and two varying degrees their GMs want to or have to move them, are Nash and Bobby Ryan. Depending on the other pieces in the deal, if the Hawks want to move Kane before his value slips further (not saying they should, but if they do), those would be two places to start.

Agreed - and then all you've done is traded equals - moved deck chairs around on the Andrea Doria (my lifetime).

Haven't solved any of the problems (except for the "Kane" problem) that we've talked about since January.
- StLBravesFan

But you're assuming it's all about goals and assists, and it's not. You can actually give up more talent for less but come out ahead in terms of subtracting distractions, bad dressing room dynamics, etc., Sometimes WAY ahead.

Guess what - Brandon Pirri is going to make it in the NHL somewhere, maybe not Chicago under Q but he will play in the league at some point because he has offensive skills.

And considering what the Blackhawk powerplay had to offer this year, you could do worse than having him on that unit.
- RickJ

I don't disagree on Pirri. I think the problem there is he has to be a 1C or 2C in the NHL and for a number of reasons, he's not there yet for the Hawks. At least he hasn't been. Maybe he comes into camp and blows the doors off and claims the 2C job.

What a nice problem that would be to have. But if not, he goes back to Rockford and/or gets dealt. Where else do you play him?

A guy like Kane dishing the puck to Perry could be worth Ryan and Getzlaf ?? Maybe ??
- mrpaulish

No way

Oh, absolutely.

See, I don't think scott Howson will get a bigger name offered to him for Nash than Patrick Kane. Other teams might offer a package of players that wuld help the Jackets more.

But Howson is not just replacing Nash's talent on the ice, he is replacing the Jackets' face of the franchise, and number one marketing chip.

As Al and some others know, I know the Columbus market very well. And I will tell y uo that a package of Brandon Dubinsky, Michael del Zotto and a goalie prospect will not get people in Columbus excited. Those guys could really help the Jackets, but most fans in OH barely know who they are. I'm not sure Ryan Getzlaf would be that much of a splash.

Patrick Kane on the other hand . . .

The two guys I think are on the block right now, and two varying degrees their GMs want to or have to move them, are Nash and Bobby Ryan. Depending on the other pieces in the deal, if the Hawks want to move Kane before his value slips further (not saying they should, but if they do), those would be two places to start.
- John Jaeckel

Maybe a three way deal with say Kane going to Columbus, Ryan to Chicago and Nash to Anaheim? Of course salaries would have to work and others may be involved however it may get too complicated. Just food for thought on a Thursday AM.

I would still rather wait on what the 'Hawks say publicly and let the matter play out by itself. All we have is a kid whose had repeated issues with drinking, no criminal offences filed against him and a bunch of speculation by many, many folks, including bloggers.

The biggest problem I have with many of these comments regarding Kane is that he's assumed to be guilty of criminal and/or civil charges.
- blackhawk24

Incorrect. www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=287230

He was charged. The charges were dismissed as I recall, but he was arrested and charged.

Here's the other thing. You can blithely say that it's all speculation by "bloggers." But you don't know what you don't know. Don't think that "bloggers" don't have a lot more information that they choose not to share for a variety of reasons.

No way
- John Jaeckel

I know. Out of everything ive read or seen , some sort of Blockbuster involving Nash would be best case scenerio for the Hawks.

Maybe a three way deal with say Kane going to Columbus, Ryan to Chicago and Nash to Anaheim? Of course salaries would have to work and others may be involved however it may get too complicated. Just food for thought on a Thursday AM.
- golfbard

Yeah, you never know. My guess is such a deal might include an Eastern Conference team though.

Yeah, you never know. My guess is such a deal might include an Eastern Conference team though.
- John Jaeckel

That's the other piece I thought of regarding a Nash for Kane swap. Would both teams be ok with helping a division rival?