Dramatic drop in point production, obvious change in on ice performance, and being traded are not enough?

The fact that a "dry island" was attempted doesnt also suggest that a change was requested because of a reason?


Also, there is a difference between having a good time, and getting poop-faced drunk every time you go out.



- jak521

Lot's of players have ups and downs in play in their careers in some years. And lot's of players are traded. If you want to beleive that the off ice behavior was the reason for all that, have at it. I don't feel that was the case. I'm not going to rehash the Carter Richards thing all over again.

Do you have factual information that you can provide proof of that any player went out and got poop faced drunk every time they went out?

Patrick Kane also punched a cab driver in the face when he was drunk as a skunk. I'm pretty sure that would never happen if Kane was sober. It isn't the fact that he's having a fun time, it's the fact that sometimes bad things happen when he drinks a ton.
- KGBflyers10

He's no different then any other 23 year old at a party. He cant handle his liquor what a wuss.

Patrick Kane also punched a cab driver in the face when he was drunk as a skunk. I'm pretty sure that would never happen if Kane was sober. It isn't the fact that he's having a fun time, it's the fact that sometimes bad things happen when he drinks a ton.
- KGBflyers10

Things as in plural? That's the only bad thing that has happened that I'm aware of.

And Parise is gone as of July 1st I assume. I can't see the league underwriting another Kovalchuk deal for the Devils.
- Flyers_01

He'd have to take a major discount which I don't think he will. If Marty retires the Devils are even more screwed than they were before.

They refuse to make it public other than what I've posted. They said he was not arrested. Not sure what he did exactly that got him in hot water with the organization.
- stveshdy

My read on it is that is just PR spin from the Hawks. We'll see if any further details emerge. And I'll reserve the right to change that opinion based on further factual information that comes out. Until then it's just a young guy who went out and had a very good time.

My read on it is that is just PR spin from the Hawks. We'll see if any further details emerge. And I'll reserve the right to change that opinion based on further factual information that comes out. Until then it's just a young guy who went out and had a very good time.
- MJL

I don't disagree but you would think if he went out and had a very good time the organization wouldn't have to talk to him about it. He had to do something that they didn't like. The GM himself said they were disappointed in his partying. So who knows whats going on.

I don't disagree but you would think if he went out and had a very good time the organization wouldn't have to talk to him about it. He had to do something that they didn't like. The GM himself said they were disappointed in his partying. So who knows whats going on.
- stveshdy

I agree. For the Hawks to publicly acknowledge that they are disappointed with Kane means it has become a problem. Guys party all the time. To have the GM say it is unacceptable more or less means something's up.

I don't disagree but you would think if he went out and had a very good time the organization wouldn't have to talk to him about it. He had to do something that they didn't like. The GM himself said they were disappointed in his partying. So who knows whats going on.
- stveshdy

Who knows what's going on is right.

Lot's of players have ups and downs in play in their careers in some years. And lot's of players are traded. If you want to beleive that the off ice behavior was the reason for all that, have at it. I don't feel that was the case. I'm not going to rehash the Carter Richards thing all over again.

Do you have factual information that you can provide proof of that any player went out and got poop faced drunk every time they went out?
- MJL

I don't think anyone is going to provide cold hard facts as you say, but I think a strong inference can be drawn from the things Jak said. I was a big supporter of both guys especially Richards, but the fact of the matter is, the organization did do the dry island thing, that wasn't something to fill space with, the team went into a tail spin in the second half last year and then bam BOTH guys get traded. I didn't think at the time Richards AND Carter were both going to get traded. I thought the media stuff was overblown too, but dropping that bomb in the manner they did told me there was a relevant concern with them.

They didn't need to trade either one to clear room for Bryzgalov as I hear so many people mistakingly say, there was only like 2.5 mill needed to get that done RIchards and Carter's salaries just about double Bryz's salary.

I cannot remember a time when a team of notoriety and in legitimate contention for a championship traded their captain and franchise player, for an unproven prospect and another player of questionable value, the way the Flyers did with Richards. Therefore I cannot sit here and act like something wasn't going on when all signs point towards that a dispute of some kind went on between the player and the organization and from what we've heard, it sounds like the player wasn't living up to his end of the bargain.

Lot's of players have ups and downs in play in their careers in some years. And lot's of players are traded. If you want to beleive that the off ice behavior was the reason for all that, have at it. I don't feel that was the case. I'm not going to rehash the Carter Richards thing all over again.

Do you have factual information that you can provide proof of that any player went out and got poop faced drunk every time they went out?
- MJL

I dont have blood alcohol levels, so I guess there goes my "factual information that I can provide proof of".

What I know is that it was an issue. And a big one at that. The coach deemed it necessary to request that the team participate in a dry island. From all accounts of people who partied with them, or saw them partying, they partied hard. I dont mind it, personally, but I also think that living that way absolutely takes a toll on you. You cant expect to party that way all the time and not have it affect you. I understand that 21-25 you are gonna wanna party.. but they seemed to have lost a bit of control. The Kenny Chesney concert fiasco also shows how they get.

The fact that other players taunt them by "doing lines of coke" off of their stick seems to also suggest that the players have a bit of a reputation around the league.

Who knows what's going on is right.
- MJL

Hopefully the Hawks want to move Seabrook or Keith.

I don't think anyone is going to provide cold hard facts as you say, but I think a strong inference can be drawn from the things Jak said. I was a big supporter of both guys especially Richards, but the fact of the matter is, the organization did do the dry island thing, that wasn't something to fill space with, the team went into a tail spin in the second half last year and then bam BOTH guys get traded. I didn't think at the time Richards AND Carter were both going to get traded. I thought the media stuff was overblown too, but dropping that bomb in the manner they did told me there was a relevant concern with them.

They didn't need to trade either one to clear room for Bryzgalov as I hear so many people mistakingly say, there was only like 2.5 mill needed to get that done RIchards and Carter's salaries just about double Bryz's salary.

I cannot remember a time when a team of notoriety and in legitimate contention for a championship traded their captain and franchise player, for an unproven prospect and another player of questionable value, the way the Flyers did with Richards. Therefore I cannot sit here and act like something wasn't going on when all signs point towards that a dispute of some kind went on between the player and the organization and from what we've heard, it sounds like the player wasn't living up to his end of the bargain.
- JoeRussomanno

Like I said I don't want to rehash this all over again. In my opinion all signs point to the deals being totally Hockey related.

Like I said I don't want to rehash this all over again. In my opinion all signs point to the deals being totally Hockey related.
- MJL

When have you ever seen a team trade their captain and franchise player in his prime for players of questionable value? Yes Schenn and Simmonds were questionable because up until this year, neither one of them have shown much.

Edit: By showing much I mean at the NHL/Pro level.

rumors were swirling and people were claiming a lot of bad stuff happened and that there were pictures to prove it.... however the pictures were just him sitting at a bar and walking around looking bleary eyed.

and this is coming from someone who can't STAND kane, this incident seems to be mostly made-up BS.
- Don'tForgetTocchet

If the Blackhawks felt they needed to publically address it I'd guess that there are pictures and/or incidents that are unknown to us at this time. But, whatever. They feel they've dealt with it as needed so it's a closed chapter.

Players shouldn't be held responsible if they have their picture taken while out having a good time. So Patrick Kane went out and got drunk and had a good time. Big deal! I've done it a bunch of times, as I'm sure a lot of people have. I don't see an issue with that. And we should also have legitimate proof if players are going to be accused of having off ice fun affect their on ice performance.
- MJL

regardless if you don't see an issue with it or not, it appears to be an issue with the team.
it's one thing going out and enjoying yourself but the team believe he should be more responsible. Hockey is his job and the Black Hawks pay him a salary.
It's big business and image is everyting in some corners of the globe.

I dont have blood alcohol levels, so I guess there goes my "factual information that I can provide proof of".

What I know is that it was an issue. And a big one at that. The coach deemed it necessary to request that the team participate in a dry island. From all accounts of people who partied with them, or saw them partying, they partied hard. I dont mind it, personally, but I also think that living that way absolutely takes a toll on you. You cant expect to party that way all the time and not have it affect you. I understand that 21-25 you are gonna wanna party.. but they seemed to have lost a bit of control. The Kenny Chesney concert fiasco also shows how they get.

The fact that other players taunt them by "doing lines of coke" off of their stick seems to also suggest that the players have a bit of a reputation around the league.
- jak521

They tried to institute Dry Island for the entire team correct? Or was it just Richards and Carter? We've seen pictures of Giroux and Briere partying, and with the some of the same people Richards and Carter were seen with. I love this from all accounts stuff. What you've seen is isolated incidents of a normal social life for a couple of young guys. You've sure offered a lot of solid evidence here. It was and continues to be complete nonsense. And with that, I'm done with this. It's history and time to move on. I'm not going to change my mind and I don't think you are either.

When have you ever seen a team trade their captain and franchise player in his prime for players of questionable value? Yes Schenn and Simmonds were questionable because up until this year, neither one of them have shown much.

Edit: By showing much I mean at the NHL/Pro level.
- JoeRussomanno

I think Carter was a salary dump more than anything in order to sign Bryz. Richards may have just been dealt to shake things up. I was really surprised to hear he was traded though.

He'd have to take a major discount which I don't think he will. If Marty retires the Devils are even more screwed than they were before.
- NickTheKid87

Parise's agent (and probably the players union, too) would not be happy with him even thinking about taking a discount big enough to help the Devils financial situation.

I don't think anyone is going to provide cold hard facts as you say, but I think a strong inference can be drawn from the things Jak said. I was a big supporter of both guys especially Richards, but the fact of the matter is, the organization did do the dry island thing, that wasn't something to fill space with, the team went into a tail spin in the second half last year and then bam BOTH guys get traded. I didn't think at the time Richards AND Carter were both going to get traded. I thought the media stuff was overblown too, but dropping that bomb in the manner they did told me there was a relevant concern with them.

They didn't need to trade either one to clear room for Bryzgalov as I hear so many people mistakingly say, there was only like 2.5 mill needed to get that done RIchards and Carter's salaries just about double Bryz's salary.

I cannot remember a time when a team of notoriety and in legitimate contention for a championship traded their captain and franchise player, for an unproven prospect and another player of questionable value, the way the Flyers did with Richards. Therefore I cannot sit here and act like something wasn't going on when all signs point towards that a dispute of some kind went on between the player and the organization and from what we've heard, it sounds like the player wasn't living up to his end of the bargain.
- JoeRussomanno

I was told by the sibling of an NHL player who is really good friends with JvR... that the players were kicked out of the box that was given to them by Jeffrey Lurie at the Kenny Chesney concert.

She told me that the front office didnt plan on making big changes, that Homer had said everyone have a quiet relaxing summer, and come to camp ready to start over on a clean slate. On June 16th, the Kenny Chesney incident happened. Supposedly the two and a few friends tailgated and got pretty wasted, went into the box and started acting like bumholes. When they were told to leave they refused and ultimately the eagles brass had to call the flyers brass to come get them out of there.

A week later both guys are traded. Hmmmm

I dont have blood alcohol levels, so I guess there goes my "factual information that I can provide proof of".

What I know is that it was an issue. And a big one at that. The coach deemed it necessary to request that the team participate in a dry island. From all accounts of people who partied with them, or saw them partying, they partied hard. I dont mind it, personally, but I also think that living that way absolutely takes a toll on you. You cant expect to party that way all the time and not have it affect you. I understand that 21-25 you are gonna wanna party.. but they seemed to have lost a bit of control. The Kenny Chesney concert fiasco also shows how they get.

The fact that other players taunt them by "doing lines of coke" off of their stick seems to also suggest that the players have a bit of a reputation around the league.
- jak521

it's all about making money
be responsible and have fun

we all remember the Lindros stories
The Flyers said they were made up
some people have stated they were true
the truth is in the middle

regardless if you don't see an issue with it or not, it appears to be an issue with the team.
it's one thing going out and enjoying yourself but the team believe he should be more responsible. Hockey is his job and the Black Hawks pay him a salary.
It's big business and image is everyting in some corners of the globe.
- phi1671

What it appears to be is that the team put out a public statement to deal with the bad publicity. That is all it appears to be right now. And we've seen here how a few pictures cause imaginations, innuendo, and speculation to grow.

regardless if you don't see an issue with it or not, it appears to be an issue with the team.
it's one thing going out and enjoying yourself but the team believe he should be more responsible. Hockey is his job and the Black Hawks pay him a salary.
It's big business and image is everyting in some corners of the globe.
- phi1671

I don't mind what they do as long as it is within the limits of the Law and doesn't affect the team or their play. However I think there is sufficient evidence in the case of Richards and Carter to infer that the team felt it was effecting them and with NTC's about to kick in for both guys, they bailed rather that to go blindly forward. For that I commend the organization because at the end of the day, it shows their commitment is toward providing the fanbase with a championship caliber product and not to player/team relationships.

I was told by the sibling of an NHL player who is really good friends with JvR... that the players were kicked out of the box that was given to them by Jeffrey Lurie at the Kenny Chesney concert.

She told me that the front office didnt plan on making big changes, that Homer had said everyone have a quiet relaxing summer, and come to camp ready to start over on a clean slate. On June 16th, the Kenny Chesney incident happened. Supposedly the two and a few friends tailgated and got pretty wasted, went into the box and started acting like bumholes. When they were told to leave they refused and ultimately the eagles brass had to call the flyers brass to come get them out of there.

A week later both guys are traded. Hmmmm
- jak521

i bet this stuff goes on all the time but there is a level of respect the players should have...sh!t happens...

both.
- hammarby31

exactly. the way i see it, while i won't like either team winning, i know for sure that i am going to be happy that the team that lost lost.

What it appears to be is that the team put out a public statement to deal with the bad publicity. That is all it appears to be right now. And we've seen here how a few pictures cause imaginations, innuendo, and speculation to grow.
- MJL

We will never know how the team 100% deals with this kind of stuff behind close doors. Apparently they did the same thing last year and Kane didn't listen.