I think we are in agreement. Big difference is Philly has Hartnell and Simmonds to protect the smaller players like Briere and Giroux. That's why Carcillo wasn't used much in the top 6. You're certainly right that Carcillo is not 'ideal' up there and that someone is needed to be Toews bodyguard...... but if Carcillo is on the top line come October the hawks have had a terrible offseason. Jmo.
- moylander

Your opinion is wrong for this reason only: Carcillo can be in the Top 6 if the Hawks upgrade at 2C.

Read above. I don't think he is the player Brouwer or Byfuglien is.

You are allowing a couple of things to cloud your judgement. A lot of guys, if they know how to play without disrupting the flow, can play with Kane and Toews. In truth, Philadelphia did not have quite that much talent on its top line. It didn't. I don't think Carcillo is remotely "ideal" there, but I think you want a guy who can go into the corners, create space, make a pass and if necessary put a beating on someone (or provide the threat) if they mess with Toews or Kane. Toews, IMO, will need a bodyguard going forward. He is WAY too valuable for this team to lose and the concussions are now something they need to guard against. In that regard, Kane for Lucic (in some form) makes more and more sense, again assuming you can also acquire/develop some talent to play on the other wing. Until something liek that happens though, Carcillo is the guy. Bickell is really a scorer only. He's a little like Stalberg, can skate and shoot, but not always the smartest player in termsof positioning and working within the play. Carcillo is not bad there. And Bickell is almost no threat to enforce.
- John Jaeckel

Bickell is almost no threat to enforce!
For a guy his size and he can throw too that is truly a shame

Bickell is almost no threat to enforce!
For a guy his size and he can throw too that is truly a shame
- southernhawk

My view on Bickell is we get what we pay for. His cap hit of $541K doesn't give us much room to compliant, albiet is does leave us wanting more. I know Bickell has found some success on the 3rd line with Bolland, but I think he's more of a 4th line or 13th forward type, until he starts showing more consistency. If we can get 15 goals out of Bickell then its a win for the Blackhawks.

Would Derek Dorsett be a better protection winger than carcillo?

In the playoffs, year after year, big men stand out: Byfuglien, Lucic, now Penner.
The truth is, big physical teams do better in the playoffs than speed/finesse teams because the game is much more tightly checked and the pounding wears down the smaller guys faster.

This is where a guy like Kane loses value. He has dazzling skill and vision, but the more physical it gets, the more marginalized (literally and figuratively) he becomes. The best case with Kane is to have a Byfuglien or a Brouwer on his line. Not just to provide protection but to go into the corners and create space without disrupting the flow of the play. Right now, that guy is Carcillo, not as good a player as Byf or Brouwer, but the best you have to fill that role.

The other issue is that after the Cup, the Hawks got weaker in net, and on D. If that team had a weakness, it was down the middle—center.

Other than Toews, no player on the Hawks brings more in trade to fill those holes than Kane does. No other top chips are both as tradeable AND expendable as Kane is.

The off-ice issues are another wrinkle. How bad are they? Can they get worse? Believe me, we can debate it here, but the Hawks likely know (good or bad). And regardless, the issues certainly undermine a brand the team spends millions on—that last fact is without question.

If Hossa and Sharp are healthy, Kane becomes somewhat expendable. If Shaw can be a 20+ goal scorer on the wing, as it appears he can, if Saad is close to what he's being hyped as, Kane becomes even more expendable.

Is it a slam dunk smart trade? No. It carries risk that the guys you get back won't perform as you expect or Kane will become a boy scout and blossom into an all-time great.

But there is a logic to trading Kane that is undeniable. I will say this, if Kane is not dealt and the Hawks don't find some other way to do some kind of makeover this summer, I will bet you right now we are having this same discussion, watching four other teams in the conference finals at this time next year.
- John Jaeckel

Good post. When are fans going to stop worrying about regular season points and start focusing on playoff success? And Penner did it with the Ducks too. Just because you have a top 5 scoring team in the regular season doesn't always translate. And you hit the point with what Kane needs. But I do think we do have the chips to get what we need there with Stalberg, Hammer, and prospects without dealing Kane. Or we use Carcillo. I prefer a better option... but he will suffice. I will take Kane plus an acquired power forward vs just Nash any day.

No question Kane brings the most in return. But we screwed up honing in on that with Buff. Kane has demonstrated he can peform at a very high level in the playoffs already. He did it for 2 years with correct player types on his line. The only way I see Kane being dealt is if Management has decided they want him out. Which certainly is a possibility..

This team isn't going anywhere no matter how much they improve blue line.. if they don't get numbers out of their money forwards in the postseason... Especially with Crawford in net. To just hope they are going to score next year is naive with the same formula...

Would Derek Dorsett be a better protection winger than carcillo?
- southernhawk

They'd be about the same. Carcillo has more skill so I'd probably go with him, or maybe go with both?

My view on Bickell is we get what we pay for. His cap hit of $541K doesn't give us much room to compliant, albiet is does leave us wanting more. I know Bickell has found some success on the 3rd line with Bolland, but I think he's more of a 4th line or 13th forward type, until he starts showing more consistency. If we can get 15 goals out of Bickell then its a win for the Blackhawks.
- DarthKane

Agreed.

They'd be about the same. Carcillo has more skill so I'd probably go with him, or maybe go with both?
- DarthKane

that's what I was wondering if Dorsett was the more skilled player we know they'll dropem but I love car bomb dumb $hit and all

JJ- Kane's size and lack of physicality is not the problem. The problem is the Hawks have too many guys who lack size, physicality or both. Again, if there's a trade to be made involving Patrick Kane that makes the Hawks better now and 5 years from now they'd be fools not to pull the trigger. But if the main objective is to toughen up the roster so we're built more for playoff hockey then trading the most talented of the lightweights seems foolish. There is room for PK on any team. You just can't have a team with too many players who think a board battle involves standing on the perimeter trying to pull pucks out from between the real battlers skates with their sticks.

JJ- Kane's size and lack of physicality is not the problem. The problem is the Hawks have too many guys who lack size, physicality or both. Again, if there's a trade to be made involving Patrick Kane that makes the Hawks better now and 5 years from now they'd be fools not to pull the trigger. But if the main objective is to toughen up the roster so we're built more for playoff hockey then trading the most talented of the lightweights seems foolish. There is room for PK on any team. You just can't have a team with too many players who think a board battle involves standing on the perimeter trying to pull pucks out from between the real battlers skates with their sticks.
- Hal9000y2k

Andrew Ladd Colin Frasier Adam Burish Big buff Ben eager.
I wonder what would happen if we had those type of players to go along with Kane and JT

that's what I was wondering if Dorsett was the more skilled player we know they'll dropem but I love car bomb dumb $hit and all
- southernhawk

Carcillo can be an effective player. He's willing to throw a hit, protect a teammate, and chip in on scoring as well as creating space for his teammates and drawing attention away from him. This is why you should love Carcillo.

It's the "dumb $hit" that you should not love. Carcillo looking to injury someone, or himself, or to do anythng that will get himself suspended is what will cost this team in the end.

So what is the easier play to fix the top line - trade Kane and hope to get more goals in exchange, or keep Kane and go find that beefy LW that fixes things with who they already have?

I say LW is easier to find at a lower price, and less chance of having to give up to get. I don't think the fans want to wait for Stalberg to become the guy everyone wants him to be.
- Return of the Roar

Depends on if they want to change from the Detroit model to something completely different...

If Sharp doesn't move I think it is still his spot. They may give Saad a shot there if he has a good camp again. Kind of tough to predict what the line up will be until July and things either change or stay the same.

Andrew Ladd Colin Frasier Adam Burish Big buff Ben eager.
I wonder what would happen if we had those type of players to go along with Kane and JT
- southernhawk

This team is now 2 seasons removed from the "salary cap bloodletting" that occured after winning the cup. Is it really all that necessary to revisit this point again? Hasn't this horse been beaten well past its death?

I swear if I had a nickel for every time someone brought this up!

Fraiser & Burish are scheduled to be UFAs. I don't know if either fit into Q and the rest of the front office's plans? As for Eager, I don't really think he fits here. I'd believe Bollig will do just as good of a job, if not better.

This team is now 2 seasons removed from the "salary cap bloodletting" that occured after winning the cup. Is it really all that necessary to revisit this point again? Hasn't this horse been beaten well past its death?

I swear if I had a nickel for every time someone brought this up!

Fraiser & Burish are scheduled to be UFAs. I don't know if either fit into Q and the rest of the front office's plans? As for Eager, I don't really think he fits here. I'd believe Bollig will do just as good of a job, if not better.
- EKolb13

Fraser might be a good plan B or plan C for the 4th line centre role. Jim Slater would be the best plan A option.

Andrew Ladd Colin Frasier Adam Burish Big buff Ben eager.
I wonder what would happen if we had those type of players to go along with Kane and JT
- southernhawk

The only one of those players that brings it every night is Ladd ,

Buff is the only other player of note

Eager Burrish and Fraiser suck. I know Frasier's Kings are going to the Cup final but its not because of him , its beacsue of Quick and Brown.

Fraser might be a good plan B or plan C for the 4th line centre role. Jim Slater would be the best plan A option.
- DarthKane

He's a guy I'd love to see here.

As for Fraiser, there are other guys I'd prefer to see here instead.

I think LaPointe is headed to Montreal as well...

The only one of those players that brings it every night is Ladd ,

Buff is the only other player of note

Eager Burrish and Fraiser suck. I know Frasier's Kings are going to the Cup final but its not because of him , its beacsue of Quick and Brown.
- mrpaulish

It's because of how they are built. I hear they are getting hot at the right time... nah.. Once again.. the best regular season teams aren't always the ones built to go far. That team is big up top, nasty, and has a very good goaltender. They are loaded with playoff type players.

Agree on Fraser. Nice 4th line player. But not a game changer.

I think wonthecup10 had a bit too much, because he had some real trade doozies. Unless thats just how he always is....
- Rally_Shots

He's always like this.

I like the guy. I may not agree with him most of the time, but he stands by and formulates his own ideas.

I appreciate that.

It's because of how they are built. I hear they are getting hot at the right time... nah.. Once again.. the best regular season teams aren't always the ones built to go far. That team is big up top, nasty, and has a very good goaltender. They are loaded with playoff type players.

Agree on Fraser. Nice 4th line player. But not a game changer.
- ilinkhawk

Would the Kings be as far as they are now without Daryl Sutter?

That's another big piece to the Kings success.

Can't really focus just on Kane as the only weak physical specimen on the top six.

By using size/willingness/ability to be physical as the barometer to evaluate a player's expendability, you could easily make the argument that any of the Hawks' top four fall in that category. Toews and Hossa must now play a style of game that risks them less, and Sharp is not exactly a board beater/head knocker either.

And your crop of newbies - Stalberg, Kruger, Saad, Morin, McNeil - not a lot of grit in that group either.

The best answer is in adding the grit to what they have on the top six - not breaking it up.

You might call him a total waste of space, but the Hawks best option there might be Carcillo. He is not without hockey sense and skill and he provides protection on that line no one else on the team can. Bollig can't play there. Shaw is tough but not as tough as Carcillo.

The Hawks might need a policeman for Toews for the rest of his career, the tougher the better. Right now, unless they got a Lucic type, that's Carcillo.
- John Jaeckel

Well I think Toews needs to be smarter and get involved in fewer scrums to start.

I also think that Carcillo can fill in there when not doing his Raffi Torres impression but honestly, if he is the night in night out starter there then this it will be one poorly constructed team and Toews wont pop 40.

If the NYR / Ottawa series proved anything it is that retaliation really makes no difference. Did not stop NYR from taking liberties, knocking out their leader and going on to win the series. Assaulting one of their players did absolutely nothing to deter them. NOTHING. They are still elbowing people in the head and throwing sucker punches at goalies regardless of who is on the ice for NJD now.

Phoenix is still playing dirty as can be even though one of their guys got a massive suspension... How many people has Doan elbowed in the head this playoffs alone?

In my opinion, the NHL needs to take a hard stand on guys who throw bows and sucker punches to get that crap out of there. Regardless of what Carcillo does after the fact, the teams/players that continuously perpetrate that nonsense don't stop regardless of player intervention. The league needs to take these guys to task in terms of hammering them monetarily as well as having a multiplier fine on the organization level so the club feels some of that pain as well.

If Lindros couldn't protect himself when that was actually allowed, I highly doubt Carcillo will make a difference there aside from doing something very stupid and losing his pay day.

Point being I don't think a bodyguard as it were is a viable solution.

Carcillo can be an effective player. He's willing to throw a hit, protect a teammate, and chip in on scoring as well as creating space for his teammates and drawing attention away from him. This is why you should love Carcillo.

It's the "dumb $hit" that you should not love. Carcillo looking to injury someone, or himself, or to do anythng that will get himself suspended is what will cost this team in the end.
- EKolb13

And its that stuff that got him another suspenion and himself a busted ACL

Can't really focus just on Kane as the only weak physical specimen on the top six.

By using size/willingness/ability to be physical as the barometer to evaluate a player's expendability, you could easily make the argument that any of the Hawks' top four fall in that category. Toews and Hossa must now play a style of game that risks them less, and Sharp is not exactly a board beater/head knocker either.

And your crop of newbies - Stalberg, Kruger, Saad, Morin, McNeil - not a lot of grit in that group either.

The best answer is in adding the grit to what they have on the top six - not breaking it up.
- Return of the Roar

From what I've seen of Morin and McNeill in Rockford, I'd disagree. Both of those guys are not afraid to play physically. From the little I've seen of Saad, I'd say the same thing too.

And its that stuff that got him another suspenion and himself a busted ACL
- victorymc98

That's the stuff this team doesn't need from Carcillo. I have my doubts that he's changed, and we'll end up seeing it again.