He doesnt step up.

Leaf fans have started turning on him. He's not a leader.


I don't need to go into detail.
- robin_steele264

Yes, you do, when you make a bold statement like he's a horrible leader.

I'm not in the dressing room with Phaneuf, so I can't rationally make a statement on his leadership capabilities, but if you do, you should be able to defend it.

Last time I checked hockey's a team sport, he was quite outspoken during the rough times this past year, and quite clearly tried to get his team turned around.

Granted I'm not Phaneuf's biggest fan, I'm not going to criticize him when he may not deserve it.

what do you think burke should do this off season realistically?
- Phil_kessel81

if we can get Schultz we will have alot of options, this is my opinion but..

FORWARDS
Joffrey Lupul / Ryan Getzlaf / Phil Kessel
Nikolai Kulemin / Mikhail Grabovski / Dustin Brown
Dustin Penner / Tyler Bozak / Matt Frattin
Joey Crabb / David Steckel/ Mike Brown

DEFENSEMEN
Dion Phaneuf / John-Michael Liles
Justin Schultz / Jake Gardiner
Cody Franson / Bryce Salvador
Korbinian Holzer /

GOALTENDERS
Roberto Luongo
Reimer

Ryan Getzlaf: Gunnarson, McArthur, & 2nd Round 2012 (if we give first round instead definitely add a salary dump player like armstrong/lombardi)
Luongo: Komi, Cobourn, & 3rd Round 2013 (if were gonna take his lame ass contract years i think this is pretty good trade)
Connolly, Lombardi, armstrong: trade for low picks and low level prospects do whatever to get rid of these 3
Dustin Brown: Luke Schenn or Kadri, sign and trade Leo Komarov & 4th round 2013 ( might be overpaid but probably the only way to get him.)
Dustin Penner: Free agents pick up not more than $3.5 mil per year. He probably wont like the idea of playing 3rd line, if not then go after someone with some size like Penner.
Bryce Salvador: Veteran shut down D leafs need!

Yes, you do, when you make a bold statement like he's a horrible leader.

I'm not in the dressing room with Phaneuf, so I can't rationally make a statement on his leadership capabilities, but if you do, you should be able to defend it.

Last time I checked hockey's a team sport, he was quite outspoken during the rough times this past year, and quite clearly tried to get his team turned around.

Granted I'm not Phaneuf's biggest fan, I'm not going to criticize him when he may not deserve it.
- Nastradamus

He doesn't put the team on his back. He doesn't fight. He doesn't speak well for the team. He plays a lackadaisical game. Doesn't show emotion. He's a disgrace to the great captains of the past for the leafs who truly blead blue and white.

He's good at picking the music and winning ceremonial faceoffs.

He doesn't put the team on his back. He doesn't fight. He doesn't speak well for the team. He plays a lackadaisical game. Doesn't show emotion. He's a disgrace to the great captains of the past for the leafs who truly blead blue and white.

He's good at picking the music and winning ceremonial faceoffs.
- robin_steele264

He was apparently instructed not to (though Carlyle may remove that restriction). In that case, it's rare to have a "good trade" when your number one minute-eating dman goes to the box, unless he's fighting one of the other team's top players.

He was apparently instructed not to (though Carlyle may remove that restriction). In that case, it's rare to have a "good trade" when your number one minute-eating dman goes to the box, unless he's fighting one of the other team's top players.
- lumlums

Sometimes you gotta send a message.

He doesn't put the team on his back. He doesn't fight. He doesn't speak well for the team. He plays a lackadaisical game. Doesn't show emotion. He's a disgrace to the great captains of the past for the leafs who truly blead blue and white.

He's good at picking the music and winning ceremonial faceoffs.
- robin_steele264

With all due respect, I think you are way off-base with Phaneuf. I am not going to sit here and say what happened to this team happened because of one guy. In general he plays with maximum intensity every game. If anything, this teams needs some more veterans and leaders to surround Phaneuf instead of putting all the onus on him.

With all due respect, I think you are way off-base with Phaneuf. I am not going to sit here and say what happened to this team happened because of one guy. In general he plays with maximum intensity every game. If anything, this teams needs some more veterans and leaders to surround Phaneuf instead of putting all the onus on him.
- wendel13

I think he can be a very effective player. But he's not a #1 dman or a captain.

I think he can be a very effective player. But he's not a #1 dman or a captain.
- robin_steele264

By your definition, how many players are number 1 dmen?

By your definition, how many players are number 1 dmen?
- wendel13

I dunno, there's only a few complete blue chip dmen in the league.

Chara, Weber etc.

I dunno, there's only a few complete blue chip dmen in the league.

Chara, Weber etc.
- robin_steele264

But that doesn't mean that all other defensemen aren't worth having on your team.

I'd rather have Boyes (UFA) than Steckal

But that doesn't mean that all other defensemen aren't worth having on your team.
- wendel13

I think Dion is overpaid, overatted, and in a position he should not be in.

I'd rather have Boyes (UFA) than Steckal
- gojets

Well yeah.

I'd rather have Boyes (UFA) than Steckal
- gojets

There's a long line of players I'd rather have than Steckal

If he could do something other than take a faceoff, I wouldn't mind him. For a man his size, he certainly plays like a big wuss

There's a long line of players I'd rather have than Steckal

If he could do something other than take a faceoff, I wouldn't mind him. For a man his size, he certainly plays like a big wuss
- Sheppy99

I'm sure Sid thinks he's tuff

Yes, you do, when you make a bold statement like he's a horrible leader.

I'm not in the dressing room with Phaneuf, so I can't rationally make a statement on his leadership capabilities, but if you do, you should be able to defend it.

Last time I checked hockey's a team sport, he was quite outspoken during the rough times this past year, and quite clearly tried to get his team turned around.

Granted I'm not Phaneuf's biggest fan, I'm not going to criticize him when he may not deserve it.
- Nastradamus

Robin's right. You don't need to be in the dressing room: How many times did you see Dion let Schenn or Aulie drop the gloves after a teammate was cheap-shotted? Good captains don't let their 6th/7th place team lose the next 15 of 17. How many times have you seen him put the team on his shoulders and carry them to win a tight and critical game? I can think of once. How the (frank) did Gionta get away with elbowing Reimer in the head? That alone is a disgrace and makes Dion a horrible captain. Gary Roberts, based on what he did on the ice, was 5 times the captain Dion is despite never actually being a captain.

I like Dion's game; he's an offensively gifted physical powerhouse of a defenseman, but he's not a captain.

I think Dion is overpaid, overatted, and in a position he should not be in.
- robin_steele264

Slightly overpaid; his contract was based on two Norris finalist years.

Once you're named the league's most overrated player you're no longer overrated.

Agrred: he shouldn't have the pressure of being the capitan. The Leafs should still be looking for their post-Sundin C. But then again, we'd all blaming the 15 losses in 17 on the fact they didn't have a captain...

Robin's right. You don't need to be in the dressing room. How many times did you see Dion take a pass and let Schenn or Aulie drop the gloves after a teammate was cheapshotted? How many great captains let their 6th place team lose the next 15 of 17? How many times have you seen him put the team on his shoulders and carry them to win a tight and critical game? How the (frank) did Gionta get away with elbowing Reimer in the head? That alone is a disgrace and makes Dion a horrible captain. Gary Roberts was never a captain, but based on what he did on the ice, he was 5 times the captain Dion is.

I like Dion's game; he's an offensively gifted powerhouse of a defenseman, but he's not a captain.
- 1979AD

He's a defenseman how easy is it to 'carry your team on your back' as a defenseman, if you're not Nik Lidstrom

Apparently he was instructed not to fight.

Don't compare a defenseman captain to a forward captain

With all due respect, I think you are way off-base with Phaneuf. I am not going to sit here and say what happened to this team happened because of one guy. In general he plays with maximum intensity every game. If anything, this teams needs some more veterans and leaders to surround Phaneuf instead of putting all the onus on him.
- wendel13

exactly, it's one thing to criticize him as a player, but another to criticize him as a player and a captain, which in most cases is baseless

Schultz is getting a lot of attention and a lot of hype. We've seen this before with Bozak, Hanson, Irwin and Gustavsson. It's obvious that Schultz has talent but whether he signs a contract with the Leafs, people need to keep their expectations in check.

Acquiring Schultz however does reinforce the fact that they should have never acquired Liles, or at worst, traded him at the deadline. Signing Schultz is going to depend heavily on how much ice time he gets especially on the PP.
- Unholy_Goalie

I dont agree, Liles was one of the better Dmen on the leafs before he had the concussion, thats something you can't really control.

before - 34gp 4g 17a 21p
After - 33gp 3g 3a 6p
Before concussion over 82gp = 10g 41a 51p

Signing Schultz for free only opens more options and gives more depth. taking your own point you do not know what you are getting with him yet, and he would be an entry level contract, so its not like Burke can overpay for him, if he works out, we have more options to move someone for another need.

One more thing, based on those posts about over-valuing J. Staal. Yes, he's topped out at 52 points so far, but that was with 3rd line minutes. How many other FWDs playhing predominantly 3rd line minutes have put up 50+ points in recent years?

Have you ever seen this kid play? He can dominate down low, cycle, and control the puck in the offensive zone the way truly big strong elite forwards can. Given the minutes and linemates, I'm convinced he can be every bit as good as his 100pt Cup-winning captain of a big brother. If the opportunity to get him (UFA next year and all) for the 5th pick (likely a Seminesque Russian) and a McCarthur or Kulemin, I jump at it.

Staal is exactly what the Leafs need. The Leafs can score off the rush and on the power play - that's it. Since Sundin, they've been sorely lacking the ability to control the puck in their opponents' zone. It's puck possesion that wears teams down physically, resulting in fatigue and mental lapses, and ultimately goals for and - indirectly - less goals against.

He's a defenseman how easy is it to 'carry your team on your back' as a defenseman, if you're not Nik Lidstrom

Apparently he was instructed not to fight.

Don't compare a defenseman captain to a forward captain
- Nastradamus

Don't compare Dion to a real defenseman captain like Nik Lidstrom. Hahahah way to contradict yourself. Maybe if the player isn't capable of such feats he shouldn't be captain. Besides, any D is as capable as any FWD in 'carrying a team on his back'. There's more to hockey than goals.

And how do you defend him on the end of year swoon or the Gionta/Reimer incident?

exactly, it's one thing to criticize him as a player, but another to criticize him as a player and a captain, which in most cases is baseless
- Nastradamus

It's baseless to criticize someone's leadership abilities - really? It must also be baseless to laud players' leadership abilities: Messier must've just been lucky.

I dont agree, Liles was one of the better Dmen on the leafs before he had the concussion, thats something you can't really control.

before - 34gp 4g 17a 21p
After - 33gp 3g 3a 6p
Before concussion over 82gp = 10g 41a 51p

Signing Schultz for free only opens more options and gives more depth. taking your own point you do not know what you are getting with him yet, and he would be an entry level contract, so its not like Burke can overpay for him, if he works out, we have more options to move someone for another need.
- senstroll

Unfortunately he's still the post-concussion Liles. Do you find it at all suspect that he didn't only come back from a concussion, but he came back with a hefty long term contract?

How does this sound for the leafs:

1) Make an offer for Parise
2) Make an offer for Ryan Suter
3) Convince and make an offer for Justin Schultz
4) Trade for Stasny (centerman)
5) Trade for Chris Stewart (power forward)
6) Trade for Luongo/Bernier (goalie)
7) Make an offer for Gaustad
8) I just noticed Brad Stuart is a UFA, he would be an amazing inquiry as well for defense....
9) I dont think penner is a an appropiate choice to make an offer to... unless he is had cheap