Different philosophy that didn't work then and won't work now. So it's Zubrus' fault the Flyers thought he was good enough to make the team and then sent him packing cause he wasn't ready? Sounds like poor decision making on the Flyers part to me. Honestly look at Detroit. Players like Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Kronwall, et al have had their share of injuries and not so great years production wise, but were given plenty of time to develop. It's only won them Stanley Cups. Relying on rookies is one thing, but shipping them out before they're given much of a chance is something else. As much as I hope JVR continues to develop into that dominant player we saw two years ago in the playoffs, he still needs to be given an opportunity to do so.
- aantny88

no cap back then...
now they live in the cap world where you need a mix of high end guys $$$ and low end guys $$$
Other teams have had better scouting departments then other teams. Detriot always had a better scouting department and it has paid off. Some teams are still catching up.
Plus, there are teams that do not draft European Players that often. It has hurt them in the long run.

Tough year for JVR. This was the year he was supposed to take the next step and he got hurt. Not much you can do about injuries. I would give him 2 more years.
- A-COD

He will have a lot of pressure on his shoulders next year. It's a very important season in his development.

great read as always.

and also, great work Getzlaf
- Lanegan

Almost forgot to comment on this...

That was brutal. Terrible penalty to take, especially at that point in the game.

Happy for Handzus to get the go-ahead goal, though.

LeClair is a great comparison, but there's been several Flyers players around his age that were traded and blossomed into good players (thank you Bob Clarke). Justin Williams, Patrick Sharp, Dainius Zubrus, Dennis Seidenberg, etc. The organization was always so quick to give up on young talent to acquire older, veteran players. I can only hope they don't continue to make these mistakes!
- aantny88

Back then the goal was to win Stanley Cups at the time. Some of those trades worked out OK for the Flyers. Zubrus brought in Recchi, who was a big part of the successes the Flyers had from 1999 to 2004. Williams brought in a needed defenseman in Danny Markov-the problem there was dumping MArkov after the fact to add two mastodons like Hatcher and Rathje.

Neither Sharp or Seidenberg were traded for veteran players, so that's not really the case with them.

I remember seeing John LeClair (and Hexy) at the Irish Pub on Walnut St about 10 years ago. I am naturally bigger, but man he had some wide shoulders. You could see why he made his living in front of the net.

Saw JVR and Carter about 2 years ago at the new wing of the CH mall. JVR looked like a kid but you could tell that he has the power forward potential.

LeClair was a late bloomer. JVR is only 23. Honestly, I don't even know why there is a debate or would be a debate here.

The only thing he really needs to do is get a little stronger (comes with time), and a lot nastier. He should spend some time with Cote learning how to defend himself.

Maybe injuries will impact his career for the next 5 years. Who knows? But that is speculation and depends on luck IMO.

He is too big and too fast to give up on. And he has skills.

I was pissed when we traded Justin Williams. Upshall too, although it was about the $$$ and the cap.

This guy is a keeper.

Thoreson!

the big problem with JVR is the jump in salary, 4.25.

with all the young forwards they have he could be dealt for some d help

Schenn also needs a change and might be a nice fit. His cap hit is 3.6 for 4 years.

Schenn and Steckel for Jvr and Lilja

the big problem with JVR is the jump in salary, 4.25.

with all the young forwards they have he could be dealt for some d help

Schenn also needs a change and might be a nice fit. His cap hit is 3.6 for 4 years.

Schenn and Steckel for Jvr and Lilja
- bhigh21

I'm not sure, but Schenn's cap hit is lower the rest of his contract.

I remember seeing John LeClair (and Hexy) at the Irish Pub on Walnut St about 10 years ago. I am naturally bigger, but man he had some wide shoulders. You could see why he made his living in front of the net.

Saw JVR and Carter about 2 years ago at the new wing of the CH mall. JVR looked like a kid but you could tell that he has the power forward potential.

LeClair was a late bloomer. JVR is only 23. Honestly, I don't even know why there is a debate or would be a debate here.

The only thing he really needs to do is get a little stronger (comes with time), and a lot nastier. He should spend some time with Cote learning how to defend himself.

Maybe injuries will impact his career for the next 5 years. Who knows? But that is speculation and depends on luck IMO.

He is too big and too fast to give up on. And he has skills.

I was pissed when we traded Justin Williams. Upshall too, although it was about the $$$ and the cap.

This guy is a keeper.
- Daman

Patience is key when it comes to certain players but with the WIN now life in the NHL, a team will only hold onto players for so long. We shall with JVR. He has the potential and I agree he needs a mean streak. Don't see a debate...just adding to your points and providing other points.

Thoreson!
- tangent_man

Nutmaster

the big problem with JVR is the jump in salary, 4.25.

with all the young forwards they have he could be dealt for some d help

Schenn also needs a change and might be a nice fit. His cap hit is 3.6 for 4 years.

Schenn and Steckel for Jvr and Lilja
- bhigh21

If the Flyers trade JvR they have to get a defenseman in return so I agree with you there. However after the end of this year Hartnell becomes a free agent and if he walks then the Flyers will be without two of their bigger forwards on the team.

I only trade JvR if im getting a bigtime player like Weber, Keith, Seabrook, Yandle etc.

Really. And the nerve of the kid to stay at UNH as long as he did.
- tangent_man

I don't know what it says about him but I've always found it curious he didn't take the NHL opportunity the second it knocked.

Trading a young guy with potential for a good return that helps the team isn't necessarily "giving up on" a player. Zubrus gets his name thrown around, but as Jsaq reminds us, he was traded for Recchi, who put up tons of points and put in good years here. There's no guarantee Zubrus would have ever been better than he turned out even if his early years had been different.

A lot of folks just want to give up on the guy.

I remember hearing a lot of the same knocks about John LeClair, and JvR has much better stats at age 22 than LeClair did.

A lot of times people forget that JvR's developmental path was not the same as a guy like Sean Couturier. Couturier's been playing against higher levels of competition, not going through NJ high schools and the USDT program that JvR took.

It's easy to be frustrated by JvR's slow development and inconsistent nature. I'm also not completely against trading him in the right move, but I think he's got a lot of value around the league. Despite the significant cap hit, he's still a 6'3" 220 lb winger who has a 20+ goal season at age 22
- Jsaquella

6'3" & 220, who plays as if 5'6" 170.

I have no doubt that Giroux, Talbot, Hartnell & Simmonds would skate head first through a brick wall if that's what it took to win. Can't say the same with JVR. He's content and comfortable playing the perimeter and avoiding any meaningful contact. Been that way since day 1.

How the hell do you need to be prodded to use every bit of size and speed to create chaos? By this stage of the game, you either have it or you don't, and he clearly doesn't have it. Some things you can't teach.

No doubt a 65-70 point player if paired with Giroux. A Hartnell with more skill minus the physicality and nastiness. If not on the score sheet, invisible. If Holmgren is fine with this, so be it. But for the 2nd overall pick & skill set/package, a major disappointment.

Give up? Not really, different philosophy back then...no cap, didn't have to rely on rookies or younger players that much.
Sharp wasn't getting playing time, so Clarke sent him to a bad Black Hawk team and he developed through some lean years over there.

Zubrus should've stayed in juniors another year but the Flyers gave him a chance.

Seidenberg got hurt early on a few times and then couldn't crack the line up so they dealt him away. But the potential was there...

Williams brought over Preems (if I remember correctly) and that was going to push the team over the top with having him down the middle with Lindros. Things didn't pan out.
- phi1671

I thought they got Primeau through the Brind'amour trade and Rod had asked for a trade because of_____ me personally I'd have rather sent Lindros and kept Brind'amour, sorry if was Leight.

Trading a young guy with potential for a good return that helps the team isn't necessarily "giving up on" a player. Zubrus gets his name thrown around, but as Jsaq reminds us, he was traded for Recchi, who put up tons of points and put in good years here. There's no guarantee Zubrus would have ever been better than he turned out even if his early years had been different.
- eayost

the needs of each team in any given year is different. So, getting Reechi back and trading Zubrus was a good trade. You have no idea as you stated how things work out. Would Sharp turn into the player he turned into if he stayed with the Flyers? I don't know but I would lean on saying no...

I don't know what it says about him but I've always found it curious he didn't take the NHL opportunity the second it knocked.
- Scoob

I think it speaks to his character that he wanted to develop his game more, and get an education in the process. Kid took a lot of heat for it.

I was pissed when we traded Justin Williams. Upshall too, although it was about the $$$ and the cap.

This guy is a keeper.
- Daman

y?

Nutmaster
- phi1671

Funmaster

I don't know what it says about him but I've always found it curious he didn't take the NHL opportunity the second it knocked.
- Scoob

confidence

I think it speaks to his character that he wanted to develop his game more, and get an education in the process. Kid took a lot of heat for it.
- tangent_man

This too.

confidence
- JoeRussomanno

Motivation

I think it speaks to his character that he wanted to develop his game more,
- tangent_man

To that point I think he'd get better development in a pro organization rather than a college (no disrespect to UNH).

and get an education in the process. Kid took a lot of heat for it.

You can always go back to school. He didn't graduate anyway.

I think it speaks to his character that he wanted to develop his game more, and get an education in the process. Kid took a lot of heat for it.
- tangent_man

I'm sure his parents urged him to finish as much as possible. But as bill mentions in the blog, he often needs an extra push. He could have been a bit intimidated to make the jump. Who knows. I just care that he comes back strong next year and hopefully injury free.

y?
- JoeRussomanno

Serious. I don't get the Upshall crush folks have. Decent player but nothing to get all broken up about when he was traded.