Has it really gotten to the point where we're legitimately trying to compare Sather and Snow and trying to compare draft classes?? Unbelievable.

We haven't won a playoff series in 19 years and they just won Game 1 of the ECFs. I don't care who's got more finances and who's got the fancier building, and yada, yada, yada. They have a lot (a LOT) of homegrown guys who are playing major roles on their team. Guys that were drafted by the organization and guys that are playing major roles NOW. And if anyone wants to cry about possible relocation and attendance issues, I point no further than the Coyotes, who at last glance, are in the final four.

I'm happy I love hockey as much as I do, because I've been still watching, and getting rewarded for it. Just some great hockey being played. I obviously wish the Rangers were out, but. they're not. They have a lot of guys I would like to root for, but...they are still the Rangers, and I cannot do it.



And...while on the topic of Ryan McDonaugh, how the hell did Gainey just pick up another NHL job (Dallas)?

Has it really gotten to the point where we're legitimately trying to compare Sather and Snow and trying to compare draft classes?? Unbelievable.

We haven't won a playoff series in 19 years and they just won Game 1 of the ECFs. I don't care who's got more finances and who's got the fancier building, and yada, yada, yada. They have a lot (a LOT) of homegrown guys who are playing major roles on their team. Guys that were drafted by the organization and guys that are playing major roles NOW. And if anyone wants to cry about possible relocation and attendance issues, I point no further than the Coyotes, who at last glance, are in the final four.

I'm happy I love hockey as much as I do, because I've been still watching, and getting rewarded for it. Just some great hockey being played. I obviously wish the Rangers were out, but. they're not. They have a lot of guys I would like to root for, but...they are still the Rangers, and I cannot do it.



And...while on the topic of Ryan McDonaugh, how the hell did Gainey just pick up another NHL job (Dallas)?
- potvin05

I have no idea how he is still employed, that was one of the worst trades in years(for Montreal of course)? Sather pulled it off and got rid of a mistake and got back quite a good hockey player. We could use three of Mcdonagh.

Kreider has looked incredible, especially since considering the kid got called up right into the playoffs never playing in the NHL. Every description you had for Wang in this post Snow could be labled with. Stubborn, egotistical, pig headed and by more than not an idiot. His trades and call ups, coaching staff(and continued supprt of that very coaching staff), lack there of call ups, development of players. You can blame Wang for all of these things but I'd have to laugh at you. Just watch an interview with the guy. What do you think, Wang is behind him with a cattle prod? I'm no fan of Wang and think the guy is the antichrist(as all Islander fans should IMO)but to think this is all Wangs doing is laughable. A LARGE part of the blame rests firmly on Snow's shoulders(and when all is said and done will be remembered as such) as well as it should.
- Cptmjl

Kreider is the perfect example of what's right about the Rangers and wrong about the Islanders. Take Kreider v. Nino. Similar players, big power forwards with speed and skill. Kreider was drafted in the first round of 2009 and allowed to go to college and develop for three seasons in Division I hockey before he was asked to take a shift in the NHL. The Rangers did not rush Kreider, they let him develop to a point that he was ready to play in the NHL before he was asked to.

The Islanders take Nino in the first round of 2010. They let him play one year of jr. after drafting him at 18 then rush him to the NHL at 19 because they need his salary number to count towards the salary floor. Nino is nowhere near ready to take an NHL shift when he's put on the team and has a morbid season, one which saw him score one f-ing point in 55 games, being out-scored by RDP.

This is, in a nutshell, the difference between a well-run organization (Rangers) and a poorly run one (Islanders). Its one of many examples of why the Rangers have been successful since the lockout and the Islanders have been a travesty.

Kreider is the perfect example of what's right about the Rangers and wrong about the Islanders. Take Kreider v. Nino. Similar players, big power forwards with speed and skill. Kreider was drafted in the first round of 2009 and allowed to go to college and develop for three seasons in Division I hockey before he was asked to take a shift in the NHL. The Rangers did not rush Kreider, they let him develop to a point that he was ready to play in the NHL before he was asked to.

The Islanders take Nino in the first round of 2010. They let him play one year of jr. after drafting him at 18 then rush him to the NHL at 19 because they need his salary number to count towards the salary floor. Nino is nowhere near ready to take an NHL shift when he's put on the team and has a morbid season, one which saw him score one f-ing point in 55 games, being out-scored by RDP.

This is, in a nutshell, the difference between a well-run organization (Rangers) and a poorly run one (Islanders). Its one of many examples of why the Rangers have been successful since the lockout and the Islanders have been a travesty.
- Jethro09

Kreider has surpassed Ninos point total in just a few playoff games, hard to disagree with your point. Hopefully Nino can develop in the AHL this year? He's got the talent, hopefully he can get his confidence back, get some real line mates, and get an actual chance to play. You know, like the complete opposite of last year

Kreider has surpassed Ninos point total in just a few playoff games, hard to disagree with your point. Hopefully Nino can develop in the AHL this year? He's got the talent, hopefully he can get his confidence back, get some real line mates, and get an actual chance to play. You know, like the complete opposite of last year
- Cptmjl

Kreider already has an NHL record to his credit.

First player in NHL history to have his first two NHL goals be playoff game winners.

It's all good, and I don't totally disagree with what you say. I just think that sh!t rolls down hill, and it starts rolling from the top.

I'm not saying there is an exact "percentage of blame" that you place on each of them, but to summarize how I feel: I think that if you put 2/3 of the blame on Snow and 1/3 on Wang, I would be the exact opposite.
- eichiefs9

One of the things I'll give Snow credit for, not picking Filatov! He just signed a one year contract in the KHL.

Kreider already has an NHL record to his credit.

First player in NHL history to have his first two NHL goals be playoff game winners.
- Downeaster

He looks great, kid has some serious wheels and decent hands to match. Looks like a great pick. Initially thought it wasn't the best pick for the Rangers. Says a lot coming right into the playoffs and doing what he's doing. He has completely taken over a couple plays I've watched. Have a bad feeling he'll be a thorn in our side for a while

IDK about that? Kreider looks pretty damn good, its still early so I guess you could throw a "maybe" on him? MDZ, Staal, Girardi, Stepan, Hagelin, are all legitimate NHL players and good ones at that. I'd take most of who I mentioned over Cizikas, Donovan, DeHaan, Kabanov. Of course I'm going on the here now, I understand that but most of these guys were better prospects and with good reason it seems? Comparing depth signings/trades, drafting, picking a coach and staff for scouting, etc... There really is no comparing them IMO. I can't sit here and say it's Wang's fault when all of the players I mentioned were drafted or were third line players probably even we could've picked up. We signed Rolston, Reasoner, Mottau, Jurcina, Eaton and got Capuano for a coach and gave him an extension for next year due to the great job he did, is that Wang's fault? They signed/traded for Mcdonagh, Prust, Boyle, Fedetenko, and Girardi and have Torterella for a coach. Who would you take? I get your point but it does not give him a get out of jail free card with everything to me, I get he is more limited but he is one of the people who created the present environment this team is in and he should be held accountable for it.
- Cptmjl

youre deviating from the original topic though...we're discussing picks from the past 5 years...staal was drafted in 05, girardi was signed as an undrafted FA with the ahl in 03, stepan was included in the topic, hagelin drafted 168th in 07..if youre bringing up staal and girardi then you cant blame garth...

as for the signings, i cant imagine garth went into free agency thinking he WANTS those guys, its more like he needed guys and wang wasnt reaching that deep into his pockets to give garth what he WANTS.

you missed Carl Hagelin
- jimbro83

you missed the part that said "(through the first 100 picks)"

Kreider has surpassed Ninos point total in just a few playoff games, hard to disagree with your point. Hopefully Nino can develop in the AHL this year? He's got the talent, hopefully he can get his confidence back, get some real line mates, and get an actual chance to play. You know, like the complete opposite of last year
- Cptmjl

If Nino is not in the AHL for the start of and the entire season next year, it will be another big mistake by the isles in handling his development. You would hope that the isles' brass would have learned a lesson in developing prospects from this past season.

youre deviating from the original topic though...we're discussing picks from the past 5 years...staal was drafted in 05, girardi was signed as an undrafted FA with the ahl in 03, stepan was included in the topic, hagelin drafted 168th in 07..if youre bringing up staal and girardi then you cant blame garth...

as for the signings, i cant imagine garth went into free agency thinking he WANTS those guys, its more like he needed guys and wang wasnt reaching that deep into his pockets to give garth what he WANTS.
- LetsGoIsles

Actually you created your own topic I never deviated from anything. I was talking about Sather's overall job from the past five years, not just drafting. As far as who Snow signed, he had the cap room to sign whomever he wanted. He had no choice, he had to reach the floor. He signed those guys, Wang didn't pick Rolston and tell Snow to trade for him. Snow signed Reasoner, Mottau, Eaton, Pandolfo. If you think Wang told Snow he better go out and sign these guys you're not thinking clearly. He had to sign players as all of you guys were saying last spring, thinking he had to do something and sign players just to reach the floor? Well you were right, he did sign players to reach the floor and unfortunately they were the players I mentioned above. Wang didn't tell him to sign these guys, why would he care? As long as he reaches the floor. That was Snows team and HIS players that did nothing but have a negative effect on the overall performance of the team. To think its Wangs fault is ludicrous. The guy has only proved one thing so far, he is not capable of signing or trading for a player of any real substance besides other teams castoffs which 19 times out of twenty doesn't work.

If Nino is not in the AHL for the start of and the entire season next year, it will be another big mistake by the isles in handling his development. You would hope that the isles' brass would have learned a hesson in developing prospects from this past season.
- Jethro09

Well they didn't learn from Bailey so who knows? This teams management seems to learn nothing from past mistakes. They are reinventing the wheel yearly. Between their stubborness and holier than thou attitude this team will never move forward. They have to start realizing they don't know better than everyone else, including their fan base.

Kreider is the perfect example of what's right about the Rangers and wrong about the Islanders. Take Kreider v. Nino. Similar players, big power forwards with speed and skill. Kreider was drafted in the first round of 2009 and allowed to go to college and develop for three seasons in Division I hockey before he was asked to take a shift in the NHL. The Rangers did not rush Kreider, they let him develop to a point that he was ready to play in the NHL before he was asked to.

The Islanders take Nino in the first round of 2010. They let him play one year of jr. after drafting him at 18 then rush him to the NHL at 19 because they need his salary number to count towards the salary floor. Nino is nowhere near ready to take an NHL shift when he's put on the team and has a morbid season, one which saw him score one f-ing point in 55 games, being out-scored by RDP.

This is, in a nutshell, the difference between a well-run organization (Rangers) and a poorly run one (Islanders). Its one of many examples of why the Rangers have been successful since the lockout and the Islanders have been a travesty.
- Jethro09

im not saying whether kreider or nino is better...clearly for the extremely limited sample size of kreider and the not-as-extremely-but-still-pretty-limited-sample-size of nino, kreider has been the "better player"

having said that, if you are going to formulate a comparison between the 2 players, you NEED to include:

Kreider plays with Callahan and Stepan on the 2nd line
Nino played with Reasoner and pandolfo on the 4th line

im not saying whether kreider or nino is better...clearly for the extremely limited sample size of kreider and the not-as-extremely-but-still-pretty-limited-sample-size of nino, kreider has been the "better player"

having said that, if you are going to formulate a comparison between the 2 players, you NEED to include:

Kreider plays with Callahan and Stepan on the 2nd line
Nino played with Reasoner and pandolfo on the 4th line
- LetsGoIsles

He wasn't comparing the players themselves, he was comparing how the teams develop their draft picks. You know the correct way(Rangers) and the incorrect way(islanders). Another question for you. Weren't you one of the people saying how Nino was learning the defensive side of the game playing with Reasoner and Pandalfo for five minutes a game and it was a good way to learn? In this post you make it sound like it was a negative thing playing with those guys?

Kreider is the perfect example of what's right about the Rangers and wrong about the Islanders. Take Kreider v. Nino. Similar players, big power forwards with speed and skill. Kreider was drafted in the first round of 2009 and allowed to go to college and develop for three seasons in Division I hockey before he was asked to take a shift in the NHL. The Rangers did not rush Kreider, they let him develop to a point that he was ready to play in the NHL before he was asked to.

The Islanders take Nino in the first round of 2010. They let him play one year of jr. after drafting him at 18 then rush him to the NHL at 19 because they need his salary number to count towards the salary floor. Nino is nowhere near ready to take an NHL shift when he's put on the team and has a morbid season, one which saw him score one f-ing point in 55 games, being out-scored by RDP.

This is, in a nutshell, the difference between a well-run organization (Rangers) and a poorly run one (Islanders). Its one of many examples of why the Rangers have been successful since the lockout and the Islanders have been a travesty.
- Jethro09

Kreider CHOSE to stay in BC. This was not the Rangers doing.. it was Kreider's doing. He went back for his junior year. e is 21 years old.. Nino is 19. The logic behind having Nino play this year in the NHL is they did not think he could learn anything more in Juniors AND NHL rules stipulate he can not go to the AHL. Everyone who hates the Islanders seem to scream from the high heavens we "rush our players" into the NHL. How come no one complains when Boston, Philly, Edmonton, etc. do the same thing? Nino is a 19 year old kid who has a year under his belt in the NHL. Next year he may end up starting in B-port... none of this "hurt his developement". He is very very young.. the only thing Nino is in need of is Patience from the fans.

you missed the part that said "(through the first 100 picks)"
- LetsGoIsles

it's hard to keep up with the criteria you guys come up with in these crazy arguments, forgive me

Has it really gotten to the point where we're legitimately trying to compare Sather and Snow and trying to compare draft classes?? Unbelievable.

We haven't won a playoff series in 19 years and they just won Game 1 of the ECFs. I don't care who's got more finances and who's got the fancier building, and yada, yada, yada. They have a lot (a LOT) of homegrown guys who are playing major roles on their team. Guys that were drafted by the organization and guys that are playing major roles NOW. And if anyone wants to cry about possible relocation and attendance issues, I point no further than the Coyotes, who at last glance, are in the final four.

I'm happy I love hockey as much as I do, because I've been still watching, and getting rewarded for it. Just some great hockey being played. I obviously wish the Rangers were out, but. they're not. They have a lot of guys I would like to root for, but...they are still the Rangers, and I cannot do it.



And...while on the topic of Ryan McDonaugh, how the hell did Gainey just pick up another NHL job (Dallas)?
- potvin05

You have something better to do on here? why does everyone get so angry when someone starts a discussion? A point was made ... so we decided to discuss it... why is that so upsetting to you?

Actually you created your own topic I never deviated from anything. I was talking about Sather's overall job from the past five years, not just drafting. As far as who Snow signed, he had the cap room to sign whomever he wanted. He had no choice, he had to reach the floor. He signed those guys, Wang didn't pick Rolston and tell Snow to trade for him. Snow signed Reasoner, Mottau, Eaton, Pandolfo. If you think Wang told Snow he better go out and sign these guys you're not thinking clearly. He had to sign players as all of you guys were saying last spring, thinking he had to do something and sign players just to reach the floor? Well you were right, he did sign players to reach the floor and unfortunately they were the players I mentioned above. Wang didn't tell him to sign these guys, why would he care? As long as he reaches the floor. That was Snows team and HIS players that did nothing but have a negative effect on the overall performance of the team. To think its Wangs fault is ludicrous. The guy has only proved one thing so far, he is not capable of signing or trading for a player of any real substance besides other teams castoffs which 19 times out of twenty doesn't work.
- Cptmjl

lets agree that you said the rangers have drafted better than the islanders in the past 5 years....

“He also drafted MDZ and Stepan. Years that we drafted in the top five they have more to show for in the same years.”

Page 2; yesterday 12:13

“As i said, besides Hamonic. Do I really have to throw players the Rangers drafted the last six years at you(and out of the top ten mind you)to make my point? You know its a valid argument, you're just being an Islanders fan which is fine.”

– page 4; yesterday at 2:45

“Thinking of how much later he has picked and never have picked in the top five since Snow has been GM its hard to say he hasn't done a better job in that time frame.”

Page 5; yesterday at 3:03

“I said REPEATEDLY the last five years or so. I love Hamonic, the kids a beast. Some would argue that to the death and take the Rangers draft without even thinking.”

Page 5; yesterday at 3:21

....as for the rest....ill be the first one to admit i was happy with the reasoner signing last year-- wasnt jumping up and down about it, but thought it was a solid pick up for a 4th line center AND i know there were others who felt the same way, so personally i cant blame snow for signing.

...as for why wang would care who garth signs, i dont know if he did. i certainly wouldnt be shocked if he influenced that decision, im willing to bet most people (including you) on this site have no idea what the conversations are that go on behind closed doors (cue the jokes at this point)

...as for why those specific players-- like eichiefs said, just because you get the BEST stuff at the dollar store doesnt mean its comparatively good to what everyone else has. if garth is given a limited dollar amount by wang and needs a certain amount of players to fill the roster -- god knows if he brings up prospects early hed get eaten alive -- hes going to end up with pandalfo, staios, eaton simply because he doesnt have the cash to make an offer to the better players

it's hard to keep up with the criteria you guys come up with in these crazy arguments, forgive me
- jimbro83

hahaha...forgiven...i apologize, didnt realize "reading" was such a crazy idea....(although ill give you carl hagelin as a pretty major prospect, although prob a "luckier" pick than a "i always had my eye on this guy" pick)

Kreider CHOSE to stay in BC. This was not the Rangers doing.. it was Kreider's doing. He went back for his junior year. e is 21 years old.. Nino is 19. The logic behind having Nino play this year in the NHL is they did not think he could learn anything more in Juniors AND NHL rules stipulate he can not go to the AHL. Everyone who hates the Islanders seem to scream from the high heavens we "rush our players" into the NHL. How come no one complains when Boston, Philly, Edmonton, etc. do the same thing? Nino is a 19 year old kid who has a year under his belt in the NHL. Next year he may end up starting in B-port... none of this "hurt his developement". He is very very young.. the only thing Nino is in need of is Patience from the fans.
- niteislander

Nino is not in need of patience from the fans, i think most are aware he's got the talent to succeed in this league. Nino is in need of proper development by the team that drafted him. Not playing with some of the worst players in the league for 5 mins a game, thats not going to help him. Quite the contrary actually. Its not always, "why is everyone so mad at Snow, it's not his fault". Most of the time it is their fault. If they(Snow)didn't think Nino could learn anything else from the WHL let me ask you something, what do you think? Do you think he could have learned anything more from the WHL?

hahaha...forgiven...i apologize, didnt realize "reading" was such a crazy idea....(although ill give you carl hagelin as a pretty major prospect, although prob a "luckier" pick than a "i always had my eye on this guy" pick)
- LetsGoIsles

all Rangers good picks are lucky.

The bad picks are the ones that counted.

I love the random criteria though.

We are allowed to talk about when the Rangers took Jessiman in 2003 and passed on like 75 all-stars

We are allowed to talk about when the Rangers chose Montoya in the first round in 2004, but not the later rounds when they took Dubinsky and Callahan....

We are not allowed to talk about the Rangers trading up to draft Marc Staal in 2005

we are allowed to talk about the first round in 2006 when the Rangers took Sanguinetti, but not the second round when they took Anisimov

we are allowed to ridicule the Rangers for taking the dead guy in the first round in 2007, but not the potential all star late in the draft they got in Hagelin, which was lucky anyway

I just wanna make sure I am following the criteria here...

wake me up at the draft party...we are just chasing our tail here

He wasn't comparing the players themselves, he was comparing how the teams develop their draft picks. You know the correct way(Rangers) and the incorrect way(islanders). Another question for you. Weren't you one of the people saying how Nino was learning the defensive side of the game playing with Reasoner and Pandalfo for five minutes a game and it was a good way to learn? In this post you make it sound like it was a negative thing playing with those guys?
- Cptmjl

i hear what youre saying...the islanders didnt handle the nino situation correctly;having nino up playing 4th line minutes was far from ideal...however i wouldnt say it was a TOTAL waste of a season...i gotta assume that if they stuck him on the 4th line it was to learn the defensive/physical end of the game; essentially i feel at least that he was developing with the islanders. i think wed all agree nino wont be a 4th line player for his career, so yes, i do think him learning the defensive/physical part of the game is important, unfortunately it was done on a team that isnt supposed to be developing players but should be playing players that have already developed.

if were talking about which organization develops players better, its no question...rangers

lets agree that you said the rangers have drafted better than the islanders in the past 5 years....

Page 2; yesterday 12:13

– page 4; yesterday at 2:45

Page 5; yesterday at 3:03

Page 5; yesterday at 3:21

....as for the rest....ill be the first one to admit i was happy with the reasoner signing last year-- wasnt jumping up and down about it, but thought it was a solid pick up for a 4th line center AND i know there were others who felt the same way, so personally i cant blame snow for signing.

...as for why wang would care who garth signs, i dont know if he did. i certainly wouldnt be shocked if he influenced that decision, im willing to bet most people (including you) on this site have no idea what the conversations are that go on behind closed doors (cue the jokes at this point)

...as for why those specific players-- like eichiefs said, just because you get the BEST stuff at the dollar store doesnt mean its comparatively good to what everyone else has. if garth is given a limited dollar amount by wang and needs a certain amount of players to fill the roster -- god knows if he brings up prospects early hed get eaten alive -- hes going to end up with pandalfo, staios, eaton simply because he doesnt have the cash to make an offer to the better players
- LetsGoIsles

Actually, I was having a conversation with another poster, you changed the topic to drafting solely and now you're bringing up samples of what that conversation was pertaining to to make yourself look right, its pretty funny actually. Lets not agree to anything because we never will. I did say what I said, I'm not denying that and never did. You have to be one of the most irritating people I never met. I have to re-explain every point down to the most minute scrap so you can digest it. It's draining beyond words. I'm really not trying to be insulting but are you kidding when you make these posts? I hate having to repeat myself to someone to make a point, it seems you need to read my last post over again to "get it". Snow HAD to reach the floor, he HAD to spend money. HE chose the players to sign to reach the floor, nobody thinks(except for you and the other guy I'm sure)that Wang told him to sign these guys? Why would he care? I don't need to know I'll make that assumption. He had to reach the floor. If you think for a second Wang told Snow to sign any of these guys you're nuts, Wang probably still doesn't know what their names are? I can't understand why you comprehend as little as you do? You avoid the meat of every issue to make some comment to bring Snow into a better light even if its not pertaining to anything. I have no idea why you do this and what your motive is? Are you related to the guy in some way? I'm not even kidding.

all Rangers good picks are lucky.

The bad picks are the ones that counted.

I love the random criteria though.

We are allowed to talk about when the Rangers took Jessiman in 2003 and passed on like 75 all-stars

We are allowed to talk about when the Rangers chose Montoya in the first round in 2004, but not the later rounds when they took Dubinsky and Callahan....

We are not allowed to talk about the Rangers trading up to draft Marc Staal in 2005

we are allowed to talk about the first round in 2006 when the Rangers took Sanguinetti, but not the second round when they took Anisimov

we are allowed to ridicule the Rangers for taking the dead guy in the first round in 2007, but not the potential all star late in the draft they got in Hagelin, which was lucky anyway

I just wanna make sure I am following the criteria here...
- jimbro83

i was addressing a comment about someone saying hed rather have the rangers draft picks over the past 5 years as opposed to the isalnders (same 5 years). IE sather vs. snows picks...so any beef with you mentioned above before that isnt part of this topic.

as for the up to 100 selections, quite frankly i got lazy and didnt want to continue searching after that....carl hagelin is a major ranger prospect and ill give you that (having said that, i didnt include any post 100 picks for the islanders; have there been any post 100 isles picks to play in the nhl in the past 5 years?)

after you address that, im curious if you feel that ANY post 100 pick is pure scouting and not luck....