all Rangers good picks are lucky.

The bad picks are the ones that counted.

I love the random criteria though.

We are allowed to talk about when the Rangers took Jessiman in 2003 and passed on like 75 all-stars

We are allowed to talk about when the Rangers chose Montoya in the first round in 2004, but not the later rounds when they took Dubinsky and Callahan....

We are not allowed to talk about the Rangers trading up to draft Marc Staal in 2005

we are allowed to talk about the first round in 2006 when the Rangers took Sanguinetti, but not the second round when they took Anisimov

we are allowed to ridicule the Rangers for taking the dead guy in the first round in 2007, but not the potential all star late in the draft they got in Hagelin, which was lucky anyway

I just wanna make sure I am following the criteria here...
- jimbro83

first off, take it easy, no one is going to test you.

i was addressing a comment about someone saying hed rather have the rangers draft picks over the past 5 years as opposed to the isalnders (same 5 years). IE sather vs. snows picks...so any beef with you mentioned above before that isnt part of this topic.

as for the up to 100 selections, quite frankly i got lazy and didnt want to continue searching after that....carl hagelin is a major ranger prospect and ill give you that (having said that, i didnt include any post 100 picks for the islanders; have there been any post 100 isles picks to play in the nhl in the past 5 years?)

after you address that, im curious if you feel that ANY post 100 pick is pure scouting and not luck....

i hear what youre saying...the islanders didnt handle the nino situation correctly;having nino up playing 4th line minutes was far from ideal...however i wouldnt say it was a TOTAL waste of a season...i gotta assume that if they stuck him on the 4th line it was to learn the defensive/physical end of the game; essentially i feel at least that he was developing with the islanders. i think wed all agree nino wont be a 4th line player for his career, so yes, i do think him learning the defensive/physical part of the game is important, unfortunately it was done on a team that isnt supposed to be developing players but should be playing players that have already developed.

if were talking about which organization develops players better, its no question...rangers
- LetsGoIsles

i was addressing a comment about someone saying hed rather have the rangers draft picks over the past 5 years as opposed to the isalnders (same 5 years). IE sather vs. snows picks...so any beef with you mentioned above before that isnt part of this topic.

as for the up to 100 selections, quite frankly i got lazy and didnt want to continue searching after that....carl hagelin is a major ranger prospect and ill give you that (having said that, i didnt include any post 100 picks for the islanders; have there been any post 100 isles picks to play in the nhl in the past 5 years?)

after you address that, im curious if you feel that ANY post 100 pick is pure scouting and not luck....
- LetsGoIsles

I know for a fact that the Rangers have some of the best European scouts in the business, but, if it makes you feel any better, Lundqvist in the 7th round and Hagelin in the 6th round was just the Rag$ "getting lucky".

it's hard to keep up with the criteria you guys come up with in these crazy arguments, forgive me
- jimbro83

It actually changes post to post to suit him, no worries. I can't keep up with it either.

It actually changes post to post to suit him, no worries. I can't keep up with it either.
- Cptmjl

I thought we'd try coming up with which team had the best picks on the second day of the draft during the 3pm to 4pm hour in every year of the 2000's next.

I know for a fact that the Rangers have some of the best European scouts in the business, but, if it makes you feel any better, Lundqvist in the 7th round and Hagelin in the 6th round was just the Rag$ "getting lucky".
- jimbro83

Of course, just like Datsyuk and Zetterburg. There is not a team in the league that would take a chance on picking these players so late. The positive point is the fact that there was a scout in the orginization that signed their name off on these guys no matter where they were picked.

i was addressing a comment about someone saying hed rather have the rangers draft picks over the past 5 years as opposed to the isalnders (same 5 years). IE sather vs. snows picks...so any beef with you mentioned above before that isnt part of this topic.

as for the up to 100 selections, quite frankly i got lazy and didnt want to continue searching after that....carl hagelin is a major ranger prospect and ill give you that (having said that, i didnt include any post 100 picks for the islanders; have there been any post 100 isles picks to play in the nhl in the past 5 years?)

after you address that, im curious if you feel that ANY post 100 pick is pure scouting and not luck....
- LetsGoIsles

i'm bored
2006 andrew macdonald pick 160 (i know its not a snow pick)
2008 Donovan pick 96 David Ullstrom 102 Kevin Poulin pick 126 Matt Martin pick 148
2009 Cizikas pick 92 Anders Lee pick 152

I thought we'd try coming up with which team had the best picks on the second day of the draft during the 3pm to 4pm hour in every year of the 2000's next.
- jimbro83

Like I said, if it suits him(or Snow)he'll change the criteria.

Actually, I was having a conversation with another poster, you changed the topic to drafting solely and now you're bringing up samples of what that conversation was pertaining to to make yourself look right, its pretty funny actually. Lets not agree to anything because we never will. I did say what I said, I'm not denying that and never did. You have to be one of the most irritating people I never met. I have to re-explain every point down to the most minute scrap so you can digest it. It's draining beyond words. I'm really not trying to be insulting but are you kidding when you make these posts? I hate having to repeat myself to someone to make a point, it seems you need to read my last post over again to "get it". Snow HAD to reach the floor, he HAD to spend money. HE chose the players to sign to reach the floor, nobody thinks(except for you and the other guy I'm sure)that Wang told him to sign these guys? Why would he care? I don't need to know I'll make that assumption. He had to reach the floor. If you think for a second Wang told Snow to sign any of these guys you're nuts, Wang probably still doesn't know what their names are? I can't understand why you comprehend as little as you do? You avoid the meat of every issue to make some comment to bring Snow into a better light even if its not pertaining to anything. I have no idea why you do this and what your motive is? Are you related to the guy in some way? I'm not even kidding.
- Cptmjl

-- agreed...wait a minute....

-- as for what I ALREADY said, lets acknowledge neither of us know if wang told him specific players...id tend to agree with you and say wang didnt care, but wang is the one who gave him the $$ amount...if you (and i) werent happy with those signings, who would you have taken if the little resources that wang gave to snow?


-- As for defending snow, you feel like I have a love affair with the guy, if he were doing subpar job on a team with an owner willing to spend IE the rangers than id HATE the guy, but he is working for arguable the WORST owner in the NHL…does that give him a pass? No but at the same time, I cannot fully blame the guy because I don’t know.

Just because the puppet is dancing doesn’t mean he is the one pulling the strings…the guy that no one sees is in charge of his every movement.

I know for a fact that the Rangers have some of the best European scouts in the business, but, if it makes you feel any better, Lundqvist in the 7th round and Hagelin in the 6th round was just the Rag$ "getting lucky".
- jimbro83

wouldnt you say its pretty risky then to wait till the 6th/7th round to draft these guys?

and im not saying its the rangers getting lucky only...id say the same thing for the islanders and any other team....dont get so defensive, i dont by any stretch of the imagination hate the rangers

The main charge was dropped so he can't go to jail for 20 years. The other 4 charges are still pending.. so he could go for 2 or 3 years. I try not to judge to harshly until I hear all the facts. (perfect example was Casey C... ) All the facts point to this kid having some REAL issues. I just don't think the Isles need this kind of headache... we have enough. Let someone else give him his second chance...or is it his 3rd or 4th by now?
- niteislander

What the fact that he and his college teammates would go out drinking and would run around like retards? Patrick Kane to this day still has the same issues that Trivino has. Difference is maybe Corey will learn from this and not pick up the bottle again. And more of those charges are gonna get dropped and in the end he'll get put on probation for quite some time and have to go to substance abuse programs

I know for a fact that the Rangers have some of the best European scouts in the business, but, if it makes you feel any better, Lundqvist in the 7th round and Hagelin in the 6th round was just the Rag$ "getting lucky".
- jimbro83

wouldnt you say its pretty risky then to wait till the 6th/7th round to draft these guys?

and im not saying its the rangers getting lucky only...id say the same thing for the islanders and any other team....dont get so offensive, i dont by any stretch of the imagination hate the rangers

Kreider CHOSE to stay in BC. This was not the Rangers doing.. it was Kreider's doing. He went back for his junior year. e is 21 years old.. Nino is 19. The logic behind having Nino play this year in the NHL is they did not think he could learn anything more in Juniors AND NHL rules stipulate he can not go to the AHL. Everyone who hates the Islanders seem to scream from the high heavens we "rush our players" into the NHL. How come no one complains when Boston, Philly, Edmonton, etc. do the same thing? Nino is a 19 year old kid who has a year under his belt in the NHL. Next year he may end up starting in B-port... none of this "hurt his developement". He is very very young.. the only thing Nino is in need of is Patience from the fans.
- niteislander

Well I surely don't hate the Islanders, but I think they've rushed prospects like Nino and Bailey. And I do think this year hurt Nino's development and that it was a wasted year for him. I'm sure his stat line isn't exactly filling him with confidence. Phoenix was guilty of the same thing with a few of its players. Rushed them to the NHL initially, then tried to make up for it by putting them back into the AHL, but those players are only now starting to get the confidence back to succeed at the highest level. Kyle Turris, for one. I don't think all of his previous struggles had to do with him just not being a good hockey player. Boedker is another one whose development seemed to have stalled early on. Actually, a lot like Bailey...he looked really good out of the gate, stuck with the team, then struggled. He shouldn't have been pushed to the NHL that quickly. He ended up in the AHL his second year, and half of his third, but on some level, some damage was already done. This season in 82 games his output is still the same as it was in his rookie season in 2008-09. Is that because he is not skilled, or because of how he was developed? Now in the playoffs he seems to be putting it together at last.

But I came across this in an NHL.com article:

But six games into the next season, new coach Dave Tippett and general manager Don Maloney – who decided players like Boedker, Kevin Porter Viktor Tikhonov and Kyle Turris had been rushed to the NHL too quickly – sent Boedker down to Texas.

The year before, he had been marketed as one of the "Young Guns" and the future was now. Now he was out of the NHL and it was a huge confidence blow.

Boedker remembers getting the news after a home game and crying in the player's lounge after his teammates had departed.

I have to believe treating players like a yo-yo does impact them to some degree. Better to just bring them along slowly if they're not ready.

Also, I'd wager Nino being on the Isles had less to do with him having "nothing left to learn" and likely a lot more to do with his $3M+ cap hit while only earning about $800K. He was not even in the top-40 WHL scorers his second year...it's not like he was re-writing the record books down there.

It actually changes post to post to suit him, no worries. I can't keep up with it either.
- Cptmjl

find ONE time i changed from MY original point, which was actually arguing one of your points.

sather vs. snow DRAFTING since 2007 (when snow became GM) and yes, for laziness reasons, i stopped at 100 (which the previous post show i missed a bunch of significant islanders prospects post 100).

that was my "criteria" i stated from the start and stuck to...find otherwise.

It actually changes post to post to suit him, no worries. I can't keep up with it either.
- Cptmjl

find ONE time i changed from MY original point, which was actually arguing one of your points.

sather vs. snow DRAFTING since 2007 (when snow became GM) and yes, for laziness reasons, i stopped at 100 (which the previous post show i missed a bunch of significant islanders prospects post 100).

that was my "criteria" i stated from the start and stuck to...find otherwise.

-- agreed...wait a minute....

-- as for what I ALREADY said, lets acknowledge neither of us know if wang told him specific players...id tend to agree with you and say wang didnt care, but wang is the one who gave him the $$ amount...if you (and i) werent happy with those signings, who would you have taken if the little resources that wang gave to snow?


-- As for defending snow, you feel like I have a love affair with the guy, if he were doing subpar job on a team with an owner willing to spend IE the rangers than id HATE the guy, but he is working for arguable the WORST owner in the NHL…does that give him a pass? No but at the same time, I cannot fully blame the guy because I don’t know.

Just because the puppet is dancing doesn’t mean he is the one pulling the strings…the guy that no one sees is in charge of his every movement.
- LetsGoIsles

Believe what you want. People like you never learn, I know the type. Even when Snow makes moves they suck for the most part. Very few of his signings/trades and even some of his drafting has been questionable at best. He has done very little except draft and when he has to do something to reach the floor it's signing garbage. You will blame Wang for every point I make. Some of which I can see your point but for the most part its evident that Wang has little or nothing to do with that particular subject. You will defend Snow no matter what we are talking about. You jump down people's throats sometimes when they are not even saying anything negative to defend Snow, it's actually pretty strange. I've never witnessed so much blind faith put into someone before in my life least of all in sports where results matter. Don't misunderstand any of this post(which you seem to do consistently), none of this is in any way complimentary to you.

wouldnt you say its pretty risky then to wait till the 6th/7th round to draft these guys?

and im not saying its the rangers getting lucky only...id say the same thing for the islanders and any other team....dont get so offensive, i dont by any stretch of the imagination hate the rangers
- LetsGoIsles

Wouldn't you say its pretty risky to use common sense on Hockey Buzz?

XxNYIxX

I know for a fact that the Rangers have some of the best European scouts in the business, but, if it makes you feel any better, Lundqvist in the 7th round and Hagelin in the 6th round was just the Rag$ "getting lucky".
- jimbro83

The isles have always had decent scouting in the past... We just traded all of our guys thanks to MM. The one hope I have with Snow is we don't trade any of our prospects. The hope is .. in the long run it will work out.. It would help if we got a decent UFA to sign... but that doesn't happen here.

find ONE time i changed from MY original point, which was actually arguing one of your points.

sather vs. snow DRAFTING since 2007 (when snow became GM) and yes, for laziness reasons, i stopped at 100 (which the previous post show i missed a bunch of significant islanders prospects post 100).

that was my "criteria" i stated from the start and stuck to...find otherwise.
- LetsGoIsles

I wasn't even discussing anything with you, YOU interjected and started discussing solely drafting. I don't need to go back and look and copy and paste to prove anything to you, if you're that interested go back and read. You seem to love doing that. Then I made those points which BTW I'm still not denying

Well I surely don't hate the Islanders, but I think they've rushed prospects like Nino and Bailey. And I do think this year hurt Nino's development and that it was a wasted year for him. I'm sure his stat line isn't exactly filling him with confidence. Phoenix was guilty of the same thing with a few of its players. Rushed them to the NHL initially, then tried to make up for it by putting them back into the AHL, but those players are only now starting to get the confidence back to succeed at the highest level. Kyle Turris, for one. I don't think all of his previous struggles had to do with him just not being a good hockey player. Boedker is another one whose development seemed to have stalled early on. Actually, a lot like Bailey...he looked really good out of the gate, stuck with the team, then struggled. He shouldn't have been pushed to the NHL that quickly. He ended up in the AHL his second year, and half of his third, but on some level, some damage was already done. This season in 82 games his output is still the same as it was in his rookie season in 2008-09. Is that because he is not skilled, or because of how he was developed? Now in the playoffs he seems to be putting it together at last.

But I came across this in an NHL.com article:

But six games into the next season, new coach Dave Tippett and general manager Don Maloney – who decided players like Boedker, Kevin Porter Viktor Tikhonov and Kyle Turris had been rushed to the NHL too quickly – sent Boedker down to Texas.

The year before, he had been marketed as one of the "Young Guns" and the future was now. Now he was out of the NHL and it was a huge confidence blow.

Boedker remembers getting the news after a home game and crying in the player's lounge after his teammates had departed.

I have to believe treating players like a yo-yo does impact them to some degree. Better to just bring them along slowly if they're not ready.

Also, I'd wager Nino being on the Isles had less to do with him having "nothing left to learn" and likely a lot more to do with his $3M+ cap hit while only earning about $800K. He was not even in the top-40 WHL scorers his second year...it's not like he was re-writing the record books down there.
- UIF

Now THAT is a very good point..

I thought we'd try coming up with which team had the best picks on the second day of the draft during the 3pm to 4pm hour in every year of the 2000's next.
- jimbro83

yes, because the first 100 draft picks (the significant picks for all intents and purposed) from 2007 and on is such an obscure stat....sorry if i asked too much

BS like i said... He'll be in camp & goto Bridgeport if he doesn't make the team.

XxNYIxX
- XxNYIxX

I normally am not someone demanding a "source" from someone but where'd you get this info from?

I know for a fact that the Rangers have some of the best European scouts in the business, but, if it makes you feel any better, Lundqvist in the 7th round and Hagelin in the 6th round was just the Rag$ "getting lucky".
- jimbro83

Wasn't one of the main reason Lundqvist went in the low rounds was because he already had a contract signed for a few years back in the homeland, much like Petrov with us? If my memory is correct when he was drafted he already was locked for 3 or 4 years.

Now THAT is a very good point..
- niteislander

It is the point

It is the point
- Cptmjl