Because Carle's Agent isn't the boss. He works for the player.
- MJL

Exactly. An agent can give advice but if his client pretty much has his heart set on one team, it becomes a matter of making the best deal he can (with the understanding between himself and his client that it may be less than they'd get if they tested the market).

Good points on the dmen. I agree with much of what you say about Carle. The problem with bringing him back has only been with the contract. The player you describe is a player you would pay Grossman money. If he wants to return for that contract, I think both sides win. If it takes more, I'd be happy to see if the grass is greener. Seems likely though, that Holmgren is willing to cede more cap space than I am.

I don't think the Flyers should pursue Suter, unless his perceived contract demands have been blown out of proportion. I would rather see the team work hard in the trade market to get an established top dman (unlikely) or a guy on the cusp, in the 23-26 year old range, who can be a part of the core.

We all would, but Phoenix wouldn't. Right now until he can prove to stay healthy and increase his production, the JVR contract is a bad one. He's being paid on potential, not for what he has accomplished.
- PLindbergh31

So maybe it takes JVR and an additional asset. It wouldn't be anything crazy by any means. JVR has proven he is a capable top six player in his short career, and statistically has showen improvement every year he's been in the league. Obviously this year you have to look at what he accomplishes if he plays a full 82 to see something like that, but still.

It's an interesting concept. Phoenix's blue-line is going to be absolutely ridiculous.

OEL-Yandle
Rundbland-Gormley
Murphy-Schlemko

They basically have already drafted their entire defense for the next decade.

If they are comparable players, I would expect the deals they sign to be close to equal. We will see how that plays out.
- PLindbergh31

Did you, or are you going to read the articles? Comparable, doesn't mean one isn't better then the other. It's about how much better. And understanding the Free Agent market and how it works.

That is a logical way to proceed. However, the Flyers' style of the last 2o years has been to be bold and extremely aggressive.

I'd say it would be more Ed Snider (and Peter Luukko) saying to aim high rather than Homer pushing for it specifically.

I am almost 100 percent positive that the Bryzgalov acquisition and contract was a case of Holmgren delivering what Snider/Luukko wanted than of Homer driving the bus and top management signing on. The previous offseason, with Leighton being re-signed and Meszaros and O'Donnell added to the D appeared to be more of Homer recommending a course of action and his bosses agreeing to it because the club had just gone to the Finals with Leighton/Boucher.
- bmeltzer

No question. I don't think there is any doubt about it that the Bryzgalov move was dictated by Ed Snider. I admire Sniders passion for wanting to win another Stanley Cup, but I'm not thrilled with an 80+ year old guy getting involved in hockey decisions.

I do really like your Moen idea. A guy like him would be a perfect fit as a depth forward. Gritty, has playoff experience, hard worker, willing to fight and be physical.
- Jsaquella

After watching Talbot this entire year, I realized we just need another one of him....just bigger

After watching Talbot this entire year, I realized we just need another one of him....just bigger
- mochoson

I couldn't be more in sync with that thought process.

That's true, but it very rarely happens that way.
- PLindbergh31

Actually, it happened this very season with Coburn and Grossmann. Both indicated to their agents that they very much wanted to stay in Philadelphia, their agents set a price (likely full market value in Grossmann's case, a slight shade below full market value in Coburn's case) and it got done quickly.

After watching Talbot this entire year, I realized we just need another one of him....just bigger
- mochoson

I've liked Moen for awhile, too.

I don't see how they could get them both. That's a pipe dream.
- MJL

maybe, but not that impossible either

Bill is speculating that the Flyers would have interest in Parise. Not that he knows for a fact that he does.

And you'd be crazy not to trade Schenn or Read in a deal for Weber. Both are very good players. But Weber is franchise dominating physical defenseman. Players like Read and Schenn are infinitely easier to obtain than a player like Weber is.
- MJL

well said

After watching Talbot this entire year, I realized we just need another one of him....just bigger
- mochoson

I liked the Travis Moen proposal. Would also love to have Adam Burish in Philly -- he'd be an instant fan favorite (nevermind the trash talking thing with Pronger because that's long forgotten on both sides).

I still think Burish ends up staying in Dallas or returning to Chicago, however.

Actually, it happened this very season with Coburn and Grossmann. Both indicated to their agents that they very much wanted to stay in Philadelphia, their agents set a price (likely full market value in Grossmann's case, a slight shade below full market value in Coburn's case) and it got done quickly.
- bmeltzer

Yes, that's true, but sometimes the interest has to be mutual. Should the Flyers "settle" on Carle simply because he's willing to take a hometown discount, or should they go after the better player and improve the team? The interest has to be mutual. If Kubina's agent tells Holmgren he's willing to take 2 million per year, should the Flyers sign him as well?

Yes, that's true, but sometimes the interest has to be mutual. Should the Flyers "settle" on Carle simply because he's willing to take a hometown discount, or should they go after the better player and improve the team? The interest has to be mutual. If Kubina's agent tells Holmgren he's willing to take 2 million per year, should the Flyers sign him as well?
- PLindbergh31

The won't be resigning Carle just because of the deal they can make. They'll be resigning Carle because he's a very good player who they want to keep. Carle is a better player then you give him credit for. Which the factual information I provided to you points out. I'd pass on Kubina.

Yes, that's true, but sometimes the interest has to be mutual. Should the Flyers "settle" on Carle simply because he's willing to take a hometown discount, or should they go after the better player and improve the team? The interest has to be mutual. If Kubina's agent tells Holmgren he's willing to take 2 million per year, should the Flyers sign him as well?
- PLindbergh31

I'd guess that the Flyers want Carle back, because they have been talking contract with him for a few months. Sure seems as if the interest is mutual.

Did you, or are you going to read the articles? Comparable, doesn't mean one isn't better then the other. It's about how much better. And understanding the Free Agent market and how it works.
- MJL

I understand how free agency works. If Carle's agent came to him with an offer in the range of what Suter is going to get, Carle would be a fool for not accepting it. The thing is, the player and agent know those type of offers won't be forthcoming. So if Carle excepts in the 4.5 to 5.0 range as opposed to taking 5+ from another team, he's not really doing the Flyers any favors imo.

I couldn't be more in sync with that thought process.
- MJL

Just watching Tablot's hustle, his defensive prowess, his physicality.....

I realized if you could take his intangibles and give him a bigger, more physically dominated frame, it's the kind of player that shifts the tides in your favour.

Not to say Talbot doesn't already do that, but you know what I mean.

Nicely summarized Bill, as always.

I think that Kubina was a spent force by the time the Flyers got him. He was one bruise away from the discard rack....which is where he is now. Shame, he has, on paper, all the assets that the Flyers really need. Size, physical play, booming right hand shot from the point. But too many years in the trenches too.

Carle is one of those players who you realize how good they are when they aren't there. I would rather we not realize just now.

Weber or Sutter would be pie in the sky. I simply think the cost is too high. In $$ and possibly roster space. The original plan was to put together a legitimate 6 man deep NHL blueline. Kimmo and Pronger anchoring the top two pairs. Obviously, that is changing. But scrapping depth for one player is never a wise move when you consider the rigors of the season and the playoffs. Depth over single stars should always be considered. Unless the star is someone who is multitudes better than anyone in your depth field.

I'd guess that the Flyers want Carle back, because they have been talking contract with him for a few months. Sure seems as if the interest is mutual.
- Jsaquella

Fair point, the interest is mutual, but I think the amount Carle takes from the Flyers will be marginally less than he would get elsewhere. Is it worth moving his family, and potentially playing for a bad team for an extra 200-400k a year? I wouldn't think so.

shane doan is currently unsigned and would be a great fit imo

I understand how free agency works. If Carle's agent came to him with an offer in the range of what Suter is going to get, Carle would be a fool for not accepting it. The thing is, the player and agent know those type of offers won't be forthcoming. So if Carle excepts in the 4.5 to 5.0 range as opposed to taking 5+ from another team, he's not really doing the Flyers any favors imo.
- PLindbergh31

Well by this statement, maybe you don't understand it. What is going to drive the price on a player in Free Agency? Teams bidding against each other, and driving up the price. No one ever expected Carle to command the same money as Suter does, so that is moot. We'll see what Carle signs for here, if he does. And when he does, he'll undoubtedly be signing for less then he could get on the open market. Earlier you couldn't figure out why Carle's Agent wouldn't go to Free Agency. Now you saying that he'll be getting basically the same money.

Hey Bill,

Great stuff as usual. Since you also blog for Dallas, there was a rumor at he deadline that Steve Ott was available. Is that still the case this summer? I think he would be perfect for this Flyers team.

I liked the Travis Moen proposal. Would also love to have Adam Burish in Philly -- he'd be an instant fan favorite (nevermind the trash talking thing with Pronger because that's long forgotten on both sides).

I still think Burish ends up staying in Dallas or returning to Chicago, however.
- bmeltzer

Another player I mentioned was Danny Paille. For a guy who's scored 19 goals before, I could see him having a reniassance, if you will, if he were to play here.

He is a big body who know's his role. He also has a ridiculous set of wheels, and enough hockey smarts to chip in offensively with some talented line-mates.

A poor mans Jason Chimera, if you will (not that you didn't know that, Bill), but putting it in that perspective certainly puts him in the same mold of player I think we need for the bottom 6.

Just watching Tablot's hustle, his defensive prowess, his physicality.....

I realized if you could take his intangibles and give him a bigger, more physically dominated frame, it's the kind of player that shifts the tides in your favour.

Not to say Talbot doesn't already do that, but you know what I mean.
- mochoson

I feel that the Flyers need to tweak the type of forwards they have, just a hair. Just a hair away from the highly skilled, and more towards the gritty, physical two way forward type. Basically by one player. The problem is that I don't know how I want to accomplish that. Which player I want to move on from.

I understand how free agency works. If Carle's agent came to him with an offer in the range of what Suter is going to get, Carle would be a fool for not accepting it. The thing is, the player and agent know those type of offers won't be forthcoming. So if Carle excepts in the 4.5 to 5.0 range as opposed to taking 5+ from another team, he's not really doing the Flyers any favors imo.
- PLindbergh31

Let's just say that Suter signs immediately on July 1st as a free agent with Detroit for $7mm. That means the three best free agent defensemen, at least puck moving types, are Carle, Wideman and Oduya. Which of those three is the most attractive left?

James Wisniewski signed a deal for over $5mm per year last summer in a market that was deeper than this summer's market, and I think Carle's a better player than him.

It's not whether or not Carle's doing a favor for the Flyers, it's the two sides coming together on an acceptable deal that fits the needs of both.