With Crosby out for much of the season, Jordan Staal had plenty of ice time and every opportunity to have a major break out season. He didn't. Staal is a 50 to 60 point player at best.

RNH is our number 1 going forward, Staal would be the 2nd line centre. 50-60 points isn't worth a terrible overpayment. Yes, I'd love to have Staal but not to the point where an overpayment would be in store.
- Oilogosphere

I just don't get how the Oil fans fail to grasp how a market works. You slam Staal, insist he plays a second role to NuHop and then offer up a player that has makes no sense to the Pens. The Pens need D and a physical presence up front.

The way a market works is you tell people what you want. They make an offer, you compare offers and take the one that best suits your interest. A player is worth what he gets on the open market. Lots of teams would like Staal. Not many would be interested in the little Edmonton kid.

So you think the 2nd most productive player from that draft year (after Kane) shoulda been taken in the 2nd round?
- robin_steele264

What difference does his numbers make if the Pens have no interest in him?

I just don't get how the Oil fans fail to grasp how a market works. You slam Staal, insist he plays a second role to NuHop and then offer up a player that has makes no sense to the Pens. The Pens need D and a physical presence up front.

The way a market works is you tell people what you want. They make an offer, you compare offers and take the one that best suits your interest. A player is worth what he gets on the open market. Lots of teams would like Staal. Not many would be interested in the little Edmonton kid.
- spatso

You're right, I don't see a trade between the two teams. Edmonton's needs are too similar to Pittsburgh's needs.

What difference does his numbers make if the Pens have no interest in him?
- spatso

Nothing to do with what I said

Ganger really isnt that good, the only thing he is good at is getting points, no other redeeming qualities, and he is really only a 50-60 point players which is great but nothing special
- Meeqsb

Wtf?

Crosby and Malkin also play against the tougher opponents... Staal gets the left overs
- Killbot460

no, stall plays against the top offensive players and is asked to shut them down.. offence is an afterthought. u can compare number without even mentioning the plus minus.

sam gagner will be the next coming of doug gilmour (with out the babysitter issue)
j staal is mini me version of mats sundin

I kinda want Jordan Staal to just sign an extension already, cause I'm sick of talkign about him.

Yet again I find myself on this dumb (frank)ing site providing clarification on a topic two sides seem to know everything about, but in reality are completly misguided.

I am going to say this one time, Jordan Staal is an ELITE talent. And yes, I said the word elite.

There are few PLAYERS, meaing any forward position, that rival Staal defensively. The only ones that are even close are names like Kesler, Bergeron, Richards, etc. Among even those players, Jordan Staal still may be the creme' of the crop.

The great debate over how good of an offensive player Jordan Staal is settled easy if you actually watch him play and take a look at his stats. No, Staal is not a third liner anymore. That's a lame statement to make. Staal hasn't been a third liner for essentially two seasons now.

And no, Richard, Jordan Staal DOES NOT play on the powerplay. Probably should have looked a little deeper into such a stat if your not sure because you don't watch them enough.

Kunitz. Sullivan. Crosby. Malkin. Neal. All with more average PPTOI/G than Staal. Staal essentially shared the 6th and final forward spot between the two powerplay lines with Tyler Kennedy and Matt Cooke. He DOES NOT recieve the PPTOI/G that a typical top-6 center sees.

Pittsburgh fans know Jordan Staal isn't just a "50 point center", but it's really easy for someone outside the fanbase to easily label Staal as such. The converse is true, as it's real easy for a Pittsburgh fan to call Sam Gagner a 40 point center, when most Edmonton fans know he is a 60 pt guy with better line-mates and a respectable team.

Wanna know the facts? Jordan Staal has already put up two back to back 49 point seasons in 82 games in his 3rd and 4th years in the league, or when he was 21 and 22 years old. Last season? He put up 30 points in just 42 games. People look at this season and officially deem him only a 50 point center, yet realize he scored the same amount of points he did previously in a health, 82 game season. Staal only played 62 games this year.

Not only are those respectable numbers, that show's progression. Staal is only 24 at the start of next season. He, like Gagner, are probably putting up 60 points with ease when they are 26, 27, 28 years old. He doesn't exactly have stellar line-mates either. While he's no longer struggling to produce offense with Kennedy and Cooke, I wouldn't exactly call him playing on a line with Steve Sullivan anything spectacular.

Fun fact? Staal put up something like 23 points in his final 21 games of the seasons or something like that. Once he got back into the line-up and was healthy, he was a monster.

So can we PLEASE stop with this hilariously stupid debate? The two honestly aren't comparable. No, there is no deal to be had involving Staal for Sam Gagner, unless Staal is signed to an extension. Even then, the deal makes no sense from a Pittsburgh perspective.

Throw Staal on another team, and he's a gurranteed 60 point, elite two-way centerman ala' Patrice Bergeron. He's probably got some seasons were he exceeds 70+. He'll likely never accomplish that in Pittsburgh, but if he ever did someone manage to go to Edmonton? Line-mates like Eberle or Hall have Staal eclipsing those marks with ease.

Jordan Staal is an elite player. Sam Gagner is not. Sam Gagner is a very respectable offensive player in the mold of a Stephen Weiss. While they both probably top out offensively around the same numbers, Jordan Staal is far superior because he's the more complete player.

Period.

Nothing to do with what I said
- robin_steele264

In fact, it has everything to do with what you said. Like Cloutier, a number of Edmonton posters try to misdirect the conversation. Cloutier says that Gagner plus another player is equivalent to the value of one year of Staal.

Your point directs attention to Gagner's production totals in relation to his draft class. Everyone avoids the obvious. Pittsburgh has no interest in this player. They need defense and grit, it makes you wonder why they would even think of ever moving Staal.

I kinda want Jordan Staal to just sign an extension already, cause I'm sick of talkign about him.

Yet again I find myself on this dumb (frank)ing site providing clarification on a topic two sides seem to know everything about, but in reality are completly misguided.

I am going to say this one time, Jordan Staal is an ELITE talent. And yes, I said the word elite.

There are few PLAYERS, meaing any forward position, that rival Staal defensively. The only ones that are even close are names like Kesler, Bergeron, Richards, etc. Among even those players, Jordan Staal still may be the creme' of the crop.

The great debate over how good of an offensive player Jordan Staal is settled easy if you actually watch him play and take a look at his stats. No, Staal is not a third liner anymore. That's a lame statement to make. Staal hasn't been a third liner for essentially two seasons now.

And no, Richard, Jordan Staal DOES NOT play on the powerplay. Probably should have looked a little deeper into such a stat if your not sure because you don't watch them enough.

Kunitz. Sullivan. Crosby. Malkin. Neal. All with more average PPTOI/G than Staal. Staal essentially shared the 6th and final forward spot between the two powerplay lines with Tyler Kennedy and Matt Cooke. He DOES NOT recieve the PPTOI/G that a typical top-6 center sees.

Pittsburgh fans know Jordan Staal isn't just a "50 point center", but it's really easy for someone outside the fanbase to easily label Staal as such. The converse is true, as it's real easy for a Pittsburgh fan to call Sam Gagner a 40 point center, when most Edmonton fans know he is a 60 pt guy with better line-mates and a respectable team.

Wanna know the facts? Jordan Staal has already put up two back to back 49 point seasons in 82 games in his 3rd and 4th years in the league, or when he was 21 and 22 years old. Last season? He put up 30 points in just 42 games. People look at this season and officially deem him only a 50 point center, yet realize he scored the same amount of points he did previously in a health, 82 game season. Staal only played 62 games this year.

Not only are those respectable numbers, that show's progression. Staal is only 24 at the start of next season. He, like Gagner, are probably putting up 60 points with ease when they are 26, 27, 28 years old. He doesn't exactly have stellar line-mates either. While he's no longer struggling to produce offense with Kennedy and Cooke, I wouldn't exactly call him playing on a line with Steve Sullivan anything spectacular.

Fun fact? Staal put up something like 23 points in his final 21 games of the seasons or something like that. Once he got back into the line-up and was healthy, he was a monster.

So can we PLEASE stop with this hilariously stupid debate? The two honestly aren't comparable. No, there is no deal to be had involving Staal for Sam Gagner, unless Staal is signed to an extension. Even then, the deal makes no sense from a Pittsburgh perspective.

Throw Staal on another team, and he's a gurranteed 60 point, elite two-way centerman ala' Patrice Bergeron. He's probably got some seasons were he exceeds 70+. He'll likely never accomplish that in Pittsburgh, but if he ever did someone manage to go to Edmonton? Line-mates like Eberle or Hall have Staal eclipsing those marks with ease.

Jordan Staal is an elite player. Sam Gagner is not. Sam Gagner is a very respectable offensive player in the mold of a Stephen Weiss. While they both probably top out offensively around the same numbers, Jordan Staal is far superior because he's the more complete player.

Period.
- mochoson

Well done!

jordan staals best fight:

Well done!
- spatso

I kinda want Jordan Staal to just sign an extension already, cause I'm sick of talkign about him...

Jordan Staal is an elite player. Sam Gagner is not. Sam Gagner is a very respectable offensive player in the mold of a Stephen Weiss. While they both probably top out offensively around the same numbers, Jordan Staal is far superior because he's the more complete player.

Period.
- mochoson

Well said, apples to oranges. Not even the same type of player. Does EDM need a player like Staal? Probably. Does PIT need a player like Gagner?...probably don't need, but doesn't hurt to have to kick around as depth. Staal won't be in EDM, he stays in PIT or goes to CAR to play with bro Eric once he becomes UFA.

Staal > Gagner and PRV
Sorry fellow Oiler fans but I would do this deal in a heartbeat if Staal had more than one year on his contract.
All due respect to Gags because I like his character and congrats on the great week you had this year.

I watch 70 plus games a year and to me the majority of the games Gags is a non factor and invisible.
Staal I believe would be one of those guys that would carry his team on his shoulders when others might be struggling.

"Back in the day" When Gretz might not have been on his game Messier took over and vise versa. When the were both on then watch the F out!
I don't think Gags will be that guy when Nuge is struggling.

Staal in an Oiler jersey would be great!

In fact, it has everything to do with what you said. Like Cloutier, a number of Edmonton posters try to misdirect the conversation. Cloutier says that Gagner plus another player is equivalent to the value of one year of Staal.

Your point directs attention to Gagner's production totals in relation to his draft class. Everyone avoids the obvious. Pittsburgh has no interest in this player. They need defense and grit, it makes you wonder why they would even think of ever moving Staal.
- spatso

Whatever

Ganger really isnt that good, the only thing he is good at is getting points, no other redeeming qualities, and he is really only a 50-60 point players which is great but nothing special
- Meeqsb

Incorrect....

Sam Gagner has become a better two way player each and every season. This year he finished +5 on a very bad team. He also made great strides in the faceoff circle.

You went a little to far there..

I will admit there is no reason for my fellow fan to come in and put a player down so I am not defending that.

What I will say and I think you know this.. Is that people just don't covet players that are on the smaller side. You did point that out but the next thing I will admit is that often it seems people don't read blogs to their entirety before they post.
- Steve-B

Sakic (5'11"), Forsberg (6'), Hejduk (6'), Tanguay (6') & Drury (5'10")

Going with small skilled forwards seemed to work well for the Avalanche

So you think the 2nd most productive player from that draft year (after Kane) shoulda been taken in the 2nd round?
- robin_steele264

Gagner in Toronto = elite center

Gagner in Edmonton = 2nd round talent

no, stall plays against the top offensive players and is asked to shut them down.. offence is an afterthought. u can compare number without even mentioning the plus minus.
- derm10

He did a bang up job against the Flyers this year.

I just don't get how the Oil fans fail to grasp how a market works. You slam Staal, insist he plays a second role to NuHop and then offer up a player that has makes no sense to the Pens. The Pens need D and a physical presence up front.

The way a market works is you tell people what you want. They make an offer, you compare offers and take the one that best suits your interest. A player is worth what he gets on the open market. Lots of teams would like Staal. Not many would be interested in the little Edmonton kid.
- spatso

You had a good argument right up till the last sentence.

I kinda want Jordan Staal to just sign an extension already, cause I'm sick of talkign about him.

Yet again I find myself on this dumb (frank)ing site providing clarification on a topic two sides seem to know everything about, but in reality are completly misguided.

I am going to say this one time, Jordan Staal is an ELITE talent. And yes, I said the word elite.

There are few PLAYERS, meaing any forward position, that rival Staal defensively. The only ones that are even close are names like Kesler, Bergeron, Richards, etc. Among even those players, Jordan Staal still may be the creme' of the crop.

The great debate over how good of an offensive player Jordan Staal is settled easy if you actually watch him play and take a look at his stats. No, Staal is not a third liner anymore. That's a lame statement to make. Staal hasn't been a third liner for essentially two seasons now.

And no, Richard, Jordan Staal DOES NOT play on the powerplay. Probably should have looked a little deeper into such a stat if your not sure because you don't watch them enough.

Kunitz. Sullivan. Crosby. Malkin. Neal. All with more average PPTOI/G than Staal. Staal essentially shared the 6th and final forward spot between the two powerplay lines with Tyler Kennedy and Matt Cooke. He DOES NOT recieve the PPTOI/G that a typical top-6 center sees.

Pittsburgh fans know Jordan Staal isn't just a "50 point center", but it's really easy for someone outside the fanbase to easily label Staal as such. The converse is true, as it's real easy for a Pittsburgh fan to call Sam Gagner a 40 point center, when most Edmonton fans know he is a 60 pt guy with better line-mates and a respectable team.

Wanna know the facts? Jordan Staal has already put up two back to back 49 point seasons in 82 games in his 3rd and 4th years in the league, or when he was 21 and 22 years old. Last season? He put up 30 points in just 42 games. People look at this season and officially deem him only a 50 point center, yet realize he scored the same amount of points he did previously in a health, 82 game season. Staal only played 62 games this year.

Not only are those respectable numbers, that show's progression. Staal is only 24 at the start of next season. He, like Gagner, are probably putting up 60 points with ease when they are 26, 27, 28 years old. He doesn't exactly have stellar line-mates either. While he's no longer struggling to produce offense with Kennedy and Cooke, I wouldn't exactly call him playing on a line with Steve Sullivan anything spectacular.

Fun fact? Staal put up something like 23 points in his final 21 games of the seasons or something like that. Once he got back into the line-up and was healthy, he was a monster.

So can we PLEASE stop with this hilariously stupid debate? The two honestly aren't comparable. No, there is no deal to be had involving Staal for Sam Gagner, unless Staal is signed to an extension. Even then, the deal makes no sense from a Pittsburgh perspective.

Throw Staal on another team, and he's a gurranteed 60 point, elite two-way centerman ala' Patrice Bergeron. He's probably got some seasons were he exceeds 70+. He'll likely never accomplish that in Pittsburgh, but if he ever did someone manage to go to Edmonton? Line-mates like Eberle or Hall have Staal eclipsing those marks with ease.

Jordan Staal is an elite player. Sam Gagner is not. Sam Gagner is a very respectable offensive player in the mold of a Stephen Weiss. While they both probably top out offensively around the same numbers, Jordan Staal is far superior because he's the more complete player.

Period.
- mochoson

Pavel Datsyuk is the cream of the crop when it comes to defensive forwards.

Pavel Datsyuk is the cream of the crop when it comes to defensive forwards.
- Starbuck

Wow, clearly left his name off that list.

Not that Datsyuk is over-rated by any means defensively, but it's not like he's leaps and bounds ahead of Staal. He is certainly an absolute thief when it comes to take-aways.

Datsyuk is reveled the way he is because he's as good as Staal defensively and scores 90 points a season. But him and Staal are pretty even when it comes to the the defensive aspect of being a forward.

Which is saying something when you compare ages.

Pavel Datsyuk is the cream of the crop when it comes to defensive forwards.
- Starbuck

Parise is a younger, bigger version. I would take Parise over Datsyuk at this point in their careers.

Finally Clouts, well done. I agree whole heartedly with everything you said. You hit the nail on the head. Keep Gagner, put him on a line with Ebs and Hall or Yaks and Hemmer. His points will inflate and so will his value. People that don't watch oiler games don't realize how much this guy competes. Don't get me wrong Staal is still the better player and I would trade Sammy for Staal in a heartbeat but mostly because of his size. Skill wise Sam is up there.

Parise is a younger, bigger version. I would take Parise over Datsyuk at this point in their careers.
- spatso

I mean your asking the wrong guy, because I think Datsyuk is the most complete hockey player on the planet right now. So for me, the comparison isn't even close.