A big man who plays center, good on face offs, kills penalties and can step his game up in the playoffs is a great asset. Staal is a great talent as a 2nd line center. Stanley Cup winners usually have great second line centers. But, everyone needs to remember Staal is a perfect second line guy. He might be a great disappointment if someone tried to get him to play the first line role.
- spatso

Compared to Tim Connoly and Tyler Bozak he would be like first line Jesus. I'm sure would be every bit as good as his big bro if given first line minutes and wingers like Philip and Lups.

How many players go from mediocre to awesome after 4-5 full seasons? Those 2 Sedin bros and...... ?
- 1979AD

Sedins were never really mediocre. They were just brought in slowly. Not all players develop like Crosby and Ovechkin, some take time to adjust to the NHL. Kesler took a few years, so did Pacioretty, just off the top of my head.

You may be right, and Gagner may never be the player people thought he would be, but he's got loads of talent, and he's still too young to write-off as a bust.

As next years trade deadline nears, and as Crosby's and Staal's contracts are ending up, give sid the choice of taking a smaller salary in order for the pens to sign both or trade him by the deadline. The penguins shouldn't risk signing crosby to a large number contract and hope he doesn't sustain a career-ending concussion while trading a strong, young, and proven Selke candidate who can play in any situation of the game. Crosby's health risks scare me. The best scenario is trading Paul Martin to a team that must take on salary to make the salary-cap floor for a 2 million dollar player to offset the money its going to take to keep Staal. The pens could then bring up Despres to fill out the defense.

Sedins were never really mediocre. They were just brought in slowly. Not all players develop like Crosby and Ovechkin, some take time to adjust to the NHL. Kesler took a few years, so did Pacioretty, just off the top of my head.

You may be right, and Gagner may never be the player people thought he would be, but he's got loads of talent, and he's still too young to write-off as a bust.
- Fosco

None on the level of Gags... how long does it take before you bring out the bust label?

Ok i am a long time reader and never really post but i have a few things i have to say about staal...

what some people don't understand about staal is he is more than just stats. he shows up in big situations, plays pk & pp, works hard and is a great leader. during the penguins cup run in 2009 he was continually out working opponents and creating havoc. i talked with Detroit fans who continually told me that they believed staal was a major part in the cup win. how many players in this league can be found at his age, with his wide set of skills, at his size and his playoff experience?

players like staal don't grow on trees and even though most penguins fans will disagree, i would much rather have staal playing the second line then malkin. staal has only been getting better and is already better than some teams 1C.

Ok i am a long time reader and never really post but i have a few things i have to say about staal...

what some people don't understand about staal is he is more than just stats. he shows up in big situations, plays pk & pp, works hard and is a great leader. during the penguins cup run in 2009 he was continually out working opponents and creating havoc. i talked with Detroit fans who continually told me that they believed staal was a major part in the cup win. how many players in this league can be found at his age, with his wide set of skills, at his size and his playoff experience?

players like staal don't grow on trees and even though most penguins fans will disagree, i would much rather have staal playing the second line then malkin. staal has only been getting better and is already better than some teams 1C.
- Pensfan8792

Agreed - The Pens have 3 #1 C's while teams like Buffalo, Toronto and others are in desperate need of 1.

Agreed - The Pens have 3 #1 C's while teams like Buffalo, Toronto and others are in desperate need of 1.
- 1979AD

exactly. some fans think we are overvaluing staal, and maybe we are, but i don't think others truly understand how good staal is.

gillis gets a top Dman? for LUO or Schnieds& ...trade Edler & 2nd rounder for Staal
- Canuckfan2006

I like Edler, but Pittsburgh doesn't need him. We have plenty of offensive minded Dmen. A few of your posters say his defense is average at best. We don't need average at best defensively from him. You have Kessler. You don't need Staal. There isn't a match here, unless you are trading Kessler and we are trading Letang. Neither is going to happen.

People need to figure out what the other team needs and go from there.

a forward drafted in the 7th 8th or 9th spot will be getting more then a point every second game a gagner's age.
- cburgess

OH REALLY. I just love when people talk for the sake of talking.

Here it is, career totals for every 7th, 8th, and 9th pick since the lockout at Gagner's current age of 22. Hell, I'll even throw in 6th overall pic, which was when Gagner was picked.

2004
6th A Montoya well, he's a goalie... but look how he turned out
7th R Olesz GP=190 P/G=.405
8th A Picard GP=43 P/G=.023
9th L Smid GP=142 P/G=.098

2005
6th G Brule GP=157 P/G=.222
7th J Skille GP=79 P/G=.316
8th D Setoguchi GP=125 P/G=.656
9th B Lee GP=59 P/G=.237

2006
6th D Brassard GP=127 P/G=.496
7th K Okposo GP=154 P/G=.623
8th P Meuller GP=207 P/G=.516
9th J Sheppard GP=78 P/G=.243

2007
6th S Gagner GP=366 P/G=.601
7th J Voracek GP=319 P/G=.573
8th Z Hamill GP=4 P/G=.500 (but really... four games?)
9th L Couture GP=104 P/G=.625

2008
6th N Filatov under 22
7th C Wilson GP=185 P/G=.454
8th M Boedker GP=208 P/G=.331
9th J Bailey GP=291 P/G=.412

So, looking at this, of these 20 players, picked 6th through 9th overall since the lockout, I would say that most people in those pick positions DO NOT get more points than Sam Gagner. In fact, only 3 of them have, and only one of them (Setoguchi) by an amount that matters.

So is Sam Gagner worth a 7th 8th or 9th pick? I wouldn't make the trade myself, because who knows what diamond you could fluke out to obtain... drafts are fun that way, its gambling for hockey GM's. But is he worth it? I guess it all depends on how important the points category means to you, I suppose. Me, I like points. I think I made a good point here.

cburgess... you're looking kinda uneducated right now.

I like Edler, but Pittsburgh doesn't need him. We have plenty of offensive minded Dmen. A few of your posters say his defense is average at best. We don't need average at best defensively from him. You have Kessler. You don't need Staal. There isn't a match here, unless you are trading Kessler and we are trading Letang. Neither is going to happen.
- Oneonta Penguin

They're wrong. Early on he was the Canucks best defenseman, both offensively and defensively, but had a rough second half. Now it's come out that he wasn't 100% healthy, so that likely contributed to his inconsistency.

Canucks fans always need at least one whipping boy. Some of the criticism was undeserved and exagerated. Dan Hamhuis was inconsistent this year, as well, but he got a pass because he's a BC boy.

But you are correct. The trade doesn't make sense for either team.

No temper tantrum. I get sick of bloggers who continually are delusional. I think he is utterly ridiculous with his ideas.

Outside of the top pick overall, there isn't a deal that Edmonton could send Pittsburgh for Staal. You aren't trading Eberle, or Hall, or RNH (I'm not a fan of his - think Landeskog will be better in his career). I would only be intrigued with one of your prospects, your Swedish Dman, but we don't need him. We are competing for Cups and trading Staal for a prospect is pointless. There isn't a match.

Hemsky DOENS'T help Pittsburgh at all. We are close to the cap to begin with and bringing in a fragile, soft player isn't the answer considering our health resume the last two years. Why take the chance? Nothing like playing him 5 million to play 45 games. I'm not sure he would produce in Pittsburgh to begin with. He certainly isn't a given to do it.

Well Staal hasn't exactly proven he can put up points either. All he has proven so far is he is likely the best 3rd line centre in the league. So whats the difference?

Well, Staal hasn't exactly proved he can produce points either, whats the difference?

There isn't a match here.
- Oneonta Penguin

OH REALLY. I just love when people talk for the sake of talking.

Here it is, career totals for every 7th, 8th, and 9th pick since the lockout at Gagner's current age of 22. Hell, I'll even throw in 6th overall pic, which was when Gagner was picked.

2004
6th A Montoya well, he's a goalie... but look how he turned out
7th R Olesz GP=190 P/G=.405
8th A Picard GP=43 P/G=.023
9th L Smid GP=142 P/G=.098

2005
6th G Brule GP=157 P/G=.222
7th J Skille GP=79 P/G=.316
8th D Setoguchi GP=125 P/G=.656
9th B Lee GP=59 P/G=.237

2006
6th D Brassard GP=127 P/G=.496
7th K Okposo GP=154 P/G=.623
8th P Meuller GP=207 P/G=.516
9th J Sheppard GP=78 P/G=.243

2007
6th S Gagner GP=366 P/G=.601
7th J Voracek GP=319 P/G=.573
8th Z Hamill GP=4 P/G=.500 (but really... four games?)
9th L Couture GP=104 P/G=.625

2008
6th N Filatov under 22
7th C Wilson GP=185 P/G=.454
8th M Boedker GP=208 P/G=.331
9th J Bailey GP=291 P/G=.412

So, looking at this, of these 20 players, picked 6th through 9th overall since the lockout, I would say that most people in those pick positions DO NOT get more points than Sam Gagner. In fact, only 3 of them have, and only one of them (Setoguchi) by an amount that matters.

So is Sam Gagner worth a 7th 8th or 9th pick? I wouldn't make the trade myself, because who knows what diamond you could fluke out to obtain... drafts are fun that way, its gambling for hockey GM's. But is he worth it? I guess it all depends on how important the points category means to you, I suppose. Me, I like points. I think I made a good point here.

cburgess... you're looking kinda uneducated right now.
- Friesenhan

i'm glad you spent the last hour looking up these stats. And he has played way more games then the rest of these guys. I would hope most of these players you listed will get better with time in the NHL.

If you watched any of the PIT/PHI series you would've seen that weak-on-the-puck forwards were PIT's achilles heal. Adding Hemsky just makes this worse. Players who don't care don't bring teams Stanley Cups.
- 1979AD

Hemsky, weak on the puck? Have you seen an Oilers game? That is like saying Cam Barker should be nominated for Norris. Don't just say stuff for the sake of saying stuff here, people. This is why I don't comment on these threads. One in ten actually has something to say.

Hemsky, weak on the puck? Have you seen an Oilers game? That is like saying Cam Barker should be nominated for Norris. Don't just say stuff for the sake of saying stuff here, people. This is why I don't comment on these threads. One in ten actually has something to say.
- Friesenhan

You are not the one of 10 for the record.

i'm glad you spent the last hour looking up these stats.
- cburgess

I am glad that is the best argument you have. The point I am trying to make is some of you are attacking people when you have no idea what you are even talking about. And so I come here and back my argument up, and your response is that? Rather that than spend the last hour bringing nothing to the conversation. I love a good debate brother. Just say something that matters, thats all.

I am glad that is the best argument you have. The point I am trying to make is some of you are attacking people when you have no idea what you are even talking about. And so I come here and back my argument up, and your response is that? Rather that than spend the last hour bringing nothing to the conversation. I love a good debate brother. Just say something that matters, thats all.
- Friesenhan

ya gagner has played in the NHL for more years then all of those guys you listed. I would hope he would be better RIGHT NOW then those guys.

i'm glad you spent the last hour looking up these stats. And he has played way more games then the rest of these guys. I would hope most of these players you listed will get better with time in the NHL.
- cburgess

Well you are shooting yourself in the foot here. Surprise.

Yes, he has played more games. he started very young, and still has a better points per game. That is actually a positive. While he was warming a bench, his counterparts were playing 20 minutes a night.

Now, you said no one in that draft position gets as few points at Gagner's age as he does. Don't make it worse by reaching for something negative to say. Its not a good guy/bad guy thing here. You don't HAVE to hate, really. Hey, there are Canadians players I like... and some I believe are better than Gagner. Just... stop.

I don't see Staal doing a sign and trade unless it's to Carolina.

I do think that possibility would be stronger than a lot of other things mentioned because:

A) The Canes might actually have some players the Penguins would want in a fair trade - a center like Sutter and maybe someone like Pitkanen...if the Pens included someone else in the deal (maybe Paul Martin...Martin makes 5M, Pitkanen 4.5M)

B) The Canes have the cap space to pay Staal

C) Staal would almost certainly want to play with his brother

D) Carolina and Pittsburgh are similar in size and Staal likes Pittsburgh...would probably be a good fit for him

E) The Pens like Staal and would want to make a move that would be good for him
- icedog97

There isn't anyone from the Canes that interest me at all. Sure the Pens like Staal but you can't worry about someone's feelings about where he would like to be traded over what's good for the team and it's future.

I wouldnt even consider Staal for JT straight up haha. If moved, wont be to a division rival!
- taleisyreXIII

Staal over JT? Are you serious or ignorant?

The comedy in this comment is, Staal is no where in the same class of either of these two, so pointing out Gagner isn't either doesn't say much.
- Maxbone

No the real comedy is nowhere in that chain of posts was GAGNER mentioned... the response was to a post about RNH not Gagner.

Seriously, are you anc Cloutier just trolling here, because some of the Edmonton crap being barfed up all over these boards the last few days rivals the Leafs fans worst stupidity of all time.

You have completely lost your minds in your assessment of Hemsky and Gagner... not to mention MPV or PVR or whatever his name is ...

How about you start suggesting Omark for some other team's first line player again. You might as well.

Sedins were never really mediocre. They were just brought in slowly. Not all players develop like Crosby and Ovechkin, some take time to adjust to the NHL. Kesler took a few years, so did Pacioretty, just off the top of my head.

You may be right, and Gagner may never be the player people thought he would be, but he's got loads of talent, and he's still too young to write-off as a bust.
- Fosco

Spezza...
Bobby Ryan...

There isn't anyone from the Canes that interest me at all. Sure the Pens like Staal but you can't worry about someone's feelings about where he would like to be traded over what's good for the team and it's future.
- acdc1206

I did have it listed as E...

I'll never understand all the irrational Sam Gagne love.
- 1979AD

Before the season, there were Edmonton fans literally suggesting they trade him for a bag of pucks.

After his little outburst (which some Edmonton fans honestly argued was NOT a fluke!??) ... Gagner put up significantly less numbers than Bozak.

Well you are shooting yourself in the foot here. Surprise.

Yes, he has played more games. he started very young, and still has a better points per game. That is actually a positive. While he was warming a bench, his counterparts were playing 20 minutes a night.

Now, you said no one in that draft position gets as few points at Gagner's age as he does. Don't make it worse by reaching for something negative to say. Its not a good guy/bad guy thing here. You don't HAVE to hate, really. Hey, there are Canadians players I like... and some I believe are better than Gagner. Just... stop.
- Friesenhan

he has played in the league for 5 years and has never got over 50 points on a team where he should be a top 6 forward.

didn't feel like going thru all of the pages. how long ago was the staal to chicago post? right now they have a pissed off owner and a kid who's fricking up big time. i could see them making a play for staal and then dealing the little drunk in separate deals. only 19,81,&7 are untouchable, everyone else is in play.