Unfortunately, that's what it's going to come to I'm afraid...GM's are wise to Schenn....which is why Burke was fielding calls for Gardiner this past trade dead line...
- Pen15

No...I'm just pointing out how apologetic you are for Schenn's shortcomings...but are very quick to judge others...
- Pen15

The only thing you've pointed out is that Franson was a top four defender in Nashville and that ice time doesn't matter when determining whether or not a player is a top four defender.

Schenn has shortcomings. Nobody said he didn't. But the reasons for his shortcomings are mostly external. He has absolutely no defensive system to help him and definitely no goaltending behind him. He's 23 and you expect him to be perfect despite absolutely everything in his environment making it damn near impossible.

Depends on a lot of things but at 24 years old, you can't say he's finished. He's had two good years and two bad years. That's a lack of consistency, not a lack of talent. Consistency comes with experience. If it takes him until he's 27, so be it. The important part is that he isn't regarded as a 5th defender for life at 23.

How long did it take Dan Girardi to become who he is today? At Schenn's age, he was still a rookie. Look at him today at 28. Was it worth it?
- Unholy_Goalie

I agree. you can't give up on him as a hockey player, but at some point you have to cash in on whatever value he might have. If they could get a useful asset for him i'm not against trading him. I saw a lot of REALLY stupid mistakes during the season. there was a stretch of 10 games that his mistakes DIRECTLY led to goals. I agree some actual lessons by a defensive coach might change that, but after a full camp/year under carlyle he hasn't progressed, I think we know his ceiling isn't a true shut down defensemen

young players need to be coached remember how well he played before he forgot everything they taught him in junior!
- ky678468

Schenn has never played to the level to be a top 4dman on any team other than the Maple Leafs.

Unfortunately, that's what it's going to come to I'm afraid...GM's are wise to Schenn....which is why Burke was fielding calls for Gardiner this past trade dead line...
- Pen15

I'm not going to comment because I don't have a tap on BB's phone.

I agree. you can't give up on him as a hockey player, but at some point you have to cash in on whatever value he might have. If they could get a useful asset for him i'm not against trading him. I saw a lot of REALLY stupid mistakes during the season. there was a stretch of 10 games that his mistakes DIRECTLY led to goals. I agree some actual lessons by a defensive coach might change that, but after a full camp/year under carlyle he hasn't progressed, I think we know his ceiling isn't a true shut down defensemen
- Shteven

The problem is that if we wait that long, his value will probably be what Symba just offered up (a 2nd rounder)

So Schenn sucks and will never be more than a 5th or 6th D?

We'll trade you a 2nd rounder for him....fair price for a bottom pair D who is overpaid at 3.6M
- Symba007

at least he's not this jerkoff

Tlusty had a good year on a poop team one of the best +/-'s and showed he could handle the NHL toughness, If the Canes land some more offense he would score 20
- ky678468

He would have been 6th in goals and points with the Leafs. But thankfully we have Matthew Lombardi. He skates super fast.

I'm not going to comment because I don't have a tap on BB's phone.
- Lee Denault

Neither do I....I'm just going off the rumour mill from Dregger & Mackenzie.

The problem is that if we wait that long, his value will probably be what Symba just offered up (a 2nd rounder)
- Pen15

What do you think Schenn would fetch in a trade right now?

He would have been 6th in goals and points with the Leafs. But thankfully we have Matthew Lombardi. He skates super fast.
- Unholy_Goalie

Tlustly is awesome!!

If we still had him and Mitchell...we'd be contending instead of pretending right now!

- Pen15

4th in team scoring at 23 and he sucks?
Franson is older and was scratched how many times last year? for Komi no less!

What do you think Schenn would fetch in a trade right now?
- Lee Denault

Schenn alone? I'd say he's worth no more than a late 1st, early 2nd.

I agree. you can't give up on him as a hockey player, but at some point you have to cash in on whatever value he might have. If they could get a useful asset for him i'm not against trading him. I saw a lot of REALLY stupid mistakes during the season. there was a stretch of 10 games that his mistakes DIRECTLY led to goals. I agree some actual lessons by a defensive coach might change that, but after a full camp/year under carlyle he hasn't progressed, I think we know his ceiling isn't a true shut down defensemen
- Shteven

Schenn has value in the future of this team. It's just going to take time and patience to get there. You can count on one hand the 19 to 23 year old players who are defensive masters. It doesn't happen over night.

For a full season, Napoleon decreed that everything go up the middle of the ice. That was his system. And then people wonder why Schenn, among others, were making mistakes. The coach and the system has to suit the players.

Schenn alone? I'd say he's worth no more than a late 1st, early 2nd.
- Pen15

So Schenn for the Habs 2nd rounder (33rd pick), deal?

The problem is that if we wait that long, his value will probably be what Symba just offered up (a 2nd rounder)
- Pen15

You drafted a guy 5th overall. So your logic is get rid of him because his value can only decrease?

Shouldn't the payoff be higher? Shouldn't you be positive on his possibility?

I've always advocated trading him because I dont think you draft a shut down defensemen who can't score (thats the name of the game) 5th overall. But doing it for the rational that he maybe worth less doesn't make that much sense.

If you can get something valuable now, do it.

What do you think Schenn would fetch in a trade right now?
- Lee Denault

He'd get a first.

4th in team scoring at 23 and he sucks?
Franson is older and was scratched how many times last year? for Komi no less!
- ky678468

I don't think that is fair to Franson. He is a much better player than Komisarek.

Schenn alone? I'd say he's worth no more than a late 1st, early 2nd.
- Pen15

You sure he's not worth a dust pan and a ball of used hockey tape?

One second he sucks, the next he's worth a 1st.

I agree. you can't give up on him as a hockey player, but at some point you have to cash in on whatever value he might have. If they could get a useful asset for him i'm not against trading him. I saw a lot of REALLY stupid mistakes during the season. there was a stretch of 10 games that his mistakes DIRECTLY led to goals. I agree some actual lessons by a defensive coach might change that, but after a full camp/year under carlyle he hasn't progressed, I think we know his ceiling isn't a true shut down defensemen
- Shteven

this is pretty much what i have been saying the whole time .... also i think a few week ago i was arguing with you about j staal..... then staal made me shove my foot in my mouth .... so sorry you where right and i look like a Richard

So Schenn for the Habs 2nd rounder (33rd pick), deal?
- Symba007

I'd rather package him to get something more...

But that's about how much he's worth on the market (alone) right now. It's also why he hasn't been traded.

Schenn alone? I'd say he's worth no more than a late 1st, early 2nd.
- Pen15

And with that I don't think it would be the wisest transaction.

Schenn has value in the future of this team. It's just going to take time and patience to get there. You can count on one hand the 19 to 23 year old players who are defensive masters. It doesn't happen over night.

For a full season, Napoleon decreed that everything go up the middle of the ice. That was his system. And then people wonder why Schenn, among others, were making mistakes. The coach and the system has to suit the players.
- Unholy_Goalie

I wont disagree there. You can't have a fast skating forward core, with slow footed defensive minded d, with a system that expects you to push (creates lots of gaps and mismatches).

But to your point, I don't think you draft a defensive defenseman 5th overall. he was never worth it. That high, you pick skill. You can always find "shut down" guys in free agency (especially for 3.6) or draft them and develop them later

You sure he's not worth a dust pan and a ball of used hockey tape?

One second he sucks, the next he's worth a 1st and a 2nd.
- Unholy_Goalie

Show me where I said and...

I'll wait.

Can't wait to have this discussion about Gardiner when he has a set back next year.

Somebody quote this.