it's unfair to blast schenn he had a (frank)ing really bad year but i think with a new couch that has a good system schenn will end up being a good top 4 shut down guy
- The_Vark

I disagree. Schenn's hockey IQ is lacking...and he's way to slow for the game. Even if we played a tight checking system (which will be hard to do given the personnel we currently have)...he's still to much of a liability in his own end. All this without mentioning he has ZERO offensive upside.

Franson could be twice as tough given his size. A guy like him should be in the 200 hit region. Between Phaneuf, Schenn, Komisarek and Franson, the opposition should have bulging discs and ruptured spleens after every game.

It's a replay from the game earlier today.
- Unholy_Goalie

He definetly should be, IMO I think that style of play can be grown into, to an extent. He grows up a bit, gets a bit more grizzled, and he could add that aspect to his game.

If it wasn't painfully obvious that you don't watch the games before, it's definitely evident now.


- Unholy_Goalie

The fact that you find that funny is ironic. It's pretty common knowledge Schenn had MULTIPLE brain farts down the stretch. And he's often the slowest guy on the ice...

I disagree. Schenn's hockey IQ is lacking...and he's way to slow for the game. Even if we played a tight checking system (which will be hard to do given the personnel we currently have)...he's still to much of a liability in his own end. All this without mentioning he has ZERO offensive upside.
- Pen15

His zero offensive upside that had more points then Gardiner, Gunnarsson and Franson for most the year.

And yet Franson, the guy who took two years longer to make the NHL, the guy who is 2 years older, the guy who is big but doesn't play like it, the guy who has never played top four minutes (unlike Schenn who has been a top four defender in ice time at least twice) is going to be a top four guy?


- Unholy_Goalie

You can laugh all you want...but the fact is that Franson's game suits the 2012 version of the NHL.

Will he end up being a top 4....maybe, maybe not....but he's sure a lot closer than Schenn.

He definetly should be, IMO I think that style of play can be grown into, to an extent. He grows up a bit, gets a bit more grizzled, and he could add that aspect to his game.
- Leafland

Hopefully he can learn how to skate while he's getting grizzled.

His zero offensive upside that had more points then Gardiner, Gunnarsson and Franson for most the year.
- Leafland

Shhh! Being benched and scoring fewer points is how you become a top four defender faster!

His zero offensive upside that had more points then Gardiner, Gunnarsson and Franson for most the year.
- Leafland

Seriously dude? He has NO shot...he's SLOW....and he has ZERO up ice vision.

Do you seriously want to go down this path?

The fact that you find that funny is ironic. It's pretty common knowledge Schenn had MULTIPLE brain farts down the stretch. And he's often the slowest guy on the ice...
- Pen15

He's only the slowest because Franson is in the press box. When they play together, Schenn looks like a Dodge Viper compared to Franson who looks like a tractor trailer doing a three point turn on a one lane road.

I disagree. Schenn's hockey IQ is lacking...and he's way to slow for the game. Even if we played a tight checking system (which will be hard to do given the personnel we currently have)...he's still to much of a liability in his own end. All this without mentioning he has ZERO offensive upside.
- Pen15

2 years ago no one was saying this stuff.... look i'm all for trading schenn if it helps us get a power forward or 1c ...... i just think there is a chance he turns it around

Shhh! Being benched and scoring fewer points is how you become a top four defender faster!
- Unholy_Goalie

Show me once where I said Franson will be a top 4 dman....

I'll wait...

He's only the slowest because Franson is in the press box. When they play together, Schenn looks like a Dodge Viper compared to Franson who looks like a tractor trailer doing a three point turn on a one lane road.
- Unholy_Goalie

Now the argument has become that Schenn is faster and a smoother skater than Franson?

Man...this has Juri Tlusty written all over it...

Whether it was 23 or 25, does it really matter or are you so hard pressed to make any valid points that you would rather argue semantics rather than the actual core points of discussion? Franson got benched because he sucked. If he was good enough, it would have been somebody else who got benched. And Franson is lucky Liles got hurt otherwise he would have seen a lot more of the press box.



No, you are, in fact, the perfect example of why Leafs fans have become a joke. Because the Leafs have a 23 year old, defensive defender, who plays in a defensive system, who has proven he can lead the league in hits, who has proven he can play 20+ minutes per night, who has proven he can be an actual top four shut down defender and yet you, for some ass backward reason, some how find a way to blindly hate him and label him as a 5th defender at best. Why? Because you prefer Franson, a guy who has proven nothing other than being an older, slower, dumber, softer player who has never proven he can be a top four defender in the NHL.
- Unholy_Goalie

No he didn't get benched because he sucked, he got benched because Komi and Schenn couldn't.
Franson has more speed, a better shot, a better pass and overall better hockey sense.
Again, 70% of schenn's hit are ineffective...the leading the league in useless hits is as important as being the second youngest team in league....if you have no talent.

Its not blind hate......that's a simpletons judgement.....its because a 5th overall pick was wasted on him, its because he's done nothing to earn his ice time besides being picked 5th overall, he only benefits from managements foolish mistakes, his overblown salary included.

You can laugh all you want...but the fact is that Franson's game suits the 2012 version of the NHL.

Will he end up being a top 4....maybe, maybe not....but he's sure a lot closer than Schenn.
- Pen15

You can lie to yourself all you want but the FACT is that Franson got benched 20+ times. He's never averaged top four minutes. He's two years older. And he's soft for his size. Plus add in to the fact he gives the puck away and can't skate all that great and you have a bottom pairing defender.

Schenn on the other hand, the guy who was 2nd in average ice time and 1st in total ice time in 2010/2011, and a top four guy in ice time two years prior, has proven he can be a top four defender.

And he did it at an earlier age.

You have no argument.

He's only the slowest because Franson is in the press box. When they play together, Schenn looks like a Dodge Viper compared to Franson who looks like a tractor trailer doing a three point turn on a one lane road.
- Unholy_Goalie

Now the argument has become that Schenn is faster and a smoother skater than Franson?

Man...this has Juri Tlusty written all over it...
- Pen15

Seriously dude? He has NO shot...he's SLOW....and he has ZERO up ice vision.

Do you seriously want to go down this path?
- Pen15

What path are we going down? All I stated was that he had more points than Gardiner for most the year. Schenn struggled badly at the end of the year, when Gardiner really took off. I don't think it's a bad thing to wish that they both stay on the team, as well as Franson.

Show me once where I said Franson will be a top 4 dman....

I'll wait...
- Pen15

Show me where I said you did.

I'll wait.

2 years ago no one was saying this stuff.... look i'm all for trading schenn if it helps us get a power forward or 1c ...... i just think there is a chance he turns it around
- The_Vark

There's always a chance he turns it around. But I'd argue it's at 50-1% that happens.

Fact is, everyone likes to make excuses for Schenn. When he was poop in his second year, it was the sophmore slump...then, it became the 'system' he was playing in. All I'm saying is that sooner or later, we might need to come to the realization that we may have overvalued him from the outset.

He's only the slowest because Franson is in the press box. When they play together, Schenn looks like a Dodge Viper compared to Franson who looks like a tractor trailer doing a three point turn on a one lane road.
- Unholy_Goalie

And there you go......proof (well more proof) you simply have no clue what you are talking about.

No he didn't get benched because he sucked, he got benched because Komi and Schenn couldn't.
Franson has more speed, a better shot, a better pass and overall better hockey sense.
- Fakepartofme

Nope, nope and nope.

Again, 70% of schenn's hit are ineffective...the leading the league in useless hits is as important as being the second youngest team in league....if you have no talent.

Wow, 70% of his hits were ineffective. That's a nice round number. Care to prove it? What's that you say? You can't and you just pulled that out of your ass? Great. I thought so.

Its not blind hate......that's a simpletons judgement.....its because a 5th overall pick was wasted on him, its because he's done nothing to earn his ice time besides being picked 5th overall, he only benefits from managements foolish mistakes, his overblown salary included.

"Wasting" a 5th overall pick on him has NOTHING to do with how he plays and definitely nothing to do with how you compare him to Franson. In fact, it points directly towards your blind hatred of Schenn which is apparent and well documented.

Schenn has been a top four defender. That's a fact. He has potential to return to that form and continue improving. Franson has not. That's a fact.

You can lie to yourself all you want but the FACT is that Franson got benched 20+ times. He's never averaged top four minutes. He's two years older. And he's soft for his size. Plus add in to the fact he gives the puck away and can't skate all that great and you have a bottom pairing defender.

Schenn on the other hand, the guy who was 2nd in average ice time and 1st in total ice time in 2010/2011, and a top four guy in ice time two years prior, has proven he can be a top four defender.

And he did it at an earlier age.

You have no argument.
- Unholy_Goalie

And each of those years, the leafs were one of the worse defensive teams in the league...no coincidence I suppose.

There's always a chance he turns it around. But I'd argue it's at 50-1% that happens.

Fact is, everyone likes to make excuses for Schenn. When he was poop in his second year, it was the sophmore slump...then, it became the 'system' he was playing in. All I'm saying is that sooner or later, we might need to come to the realization that we may have overvalued him from the outset.
- Pen15

i can agree with that .... he sure was a bag of donkey ass this year

You can lie to yourself all you want but the FACT is that Franson got benched 20+ times. He's never averaged top four minutes. He's two years older. And he's soft for his size. Plus add in to the fact he gives the puck away and can't skate all that great and you have a bottom pairing defender.

Schenn on the other hand, the guy who was 2nd in average ice time and 1st in total ice time in 2010/2011, and a top four guy in ice time two years prior, has proven he can be a top four defender.

And he did it at an earlier age.

You have no argument.
- Unholy_Goalie

He was top 4 in Nashville.

And each of those years, the leafs were one of the worse defensive teams in the league...no coincidence I suppose.
- Fakepartofme

UG is unable to make correlations....

That was only coaches fault....