And with that I don't think it would be the wisest transaction.
- Lee Denault

Agreed...

I think he should be packaged to get us something of more value...

But I don't think I'm far off on his value alone.

I wont disagree there. You can't have a fast skating forward core, with slow footed defensive minded d, with a system that expects you to push (creates lots of gaps and mismatches).

But to your point, I don't think you draft a defensive defenseman 5th overall. he was never worth it. That high, you pick skill. You can always find "shut down" guys in free agency (especially for 3.6) or draft them and develop them later
- Shteven

Yeah we should of drafted filatov

He would have been 6th in goals and points with the Leafs. But thankfully we have Matthew Lombardi. He skates super fast.
- Unholy_Goalie

If he played on the leafs last year he would probably score 30... not having to play defense boosts the numbers a bit, AKA Lupul with more points per game than Henrik Zetterberg, Kopitar, or Gaborik.... Then all these players with inflated numbers cash in on big contracts.

Grabo is a thirty point guy on a playoff team and we have seen LUpul on enough playoff teams to see what he is.

Can't wait to have this discussion about Gardiner when he has a set back next year.

Somebody quote this.
- Lee Denault

No doubt he'll have a setback. But IMO, the difference is Gardiner's upside is extreme...

He can skate, pass, shoot, quarterback a powerplay, has incredible vision and hockey IQ. He need to work a little in the defensive zone...but all in all, I personally will be a lot more patient with him.

this is pretty much what i have been saying the whole time .... also i think a few week ago i was arguing with you about j staal..... then staal made me shove my foot in my mouth .... so sorry you where right and i look like a Richard
- The_Vark

It was just one series , it didn't prove me right. Unfortunately his value went high, which means his cost to acquire went up. I'm not sure if he's going to be attainable. My argument at the time was based on his contract, and toronto's assets it worked. He is a perfect 2 way centre for kessel though

If he played on the leafs last year he would probably score 30... not having to play defense boosts the numbers a bit, AKA Lupul with more points per game than Henrik Zetterberg, Kopitar, or Gaborik.... Then all these players with inflated numbers cash in on big contracts.

Grabo is a thirty point guy on a playoff team and we have seen LUpul on enough playoff teams to see what he is.
- ky678468

Sorry...I have to ask. Are you talking about Juri Tlusty? And are you actually being serious?

No doubt he'll have a setback. But IMO, the difference is Gardiner's upside is extreme...

He can skate, pass, shoot, quarterback a powerplay, has incredible vision and hockey IQ. He need to work a little in the defensive zone...but all in all, I personally will be a lot more patient with him.
- Pen15

Kaberlol

Agreed...

I think he should be packaged to get us something of more value...

But I don't think I'm far off on his value alone.
- Pen15

He's worth a 1st. IMO

It's too early to give up on a young Defensive defensmen who has had no help since day 1.

Does he skate slow. Yes.

Does he get rattled with the puck SOMETIMES. Yes

All things that can be worked on with time and coaching.

He now has the defensive coaching, and at age 23 he has a boatload of time.

It's not like this team is ready to compete anyways.

It was just one series , it didn't prove me right. Unfortunately his value went high, which means his cost to acquire went up. I'm not sure if he's going to be attainable. My argument at the time was based on his contract, and toronto's assets it worked. He is a perfect 2 way centre for kessel though
- Shteven

Boy would i love to see kessel and J Staal on a line together.

He's worth a 1st. IMO

It's too early to give up on a young Defensive defensmen who has had no help since day 1.

Does he skate slow. Yes.

Does he get rattled with the puck SOMETIMES. Yes

All things that can be worked on with time and coaching.

He now has the defensive coaching, and at age 23 he has a boatload of time.

It's not like this team is ready to compete anyways.
- Lee Denault

They're not...but the risk we run by holding on to him is that he doesn't pan out...and we get nothing in return for him in the future.

Boy would i love to see kessel and J Staal on a line together.
- Timeforsoup

Would cost you Gardiner and your 1st

Yeah we should of drafted filatov
- Lee Denault

I didn't say don't take a defensemen. I'm pretty sure we were sitting a few spots back, with Hodgson, Myers and Karlsson still there.

We traded UP (at least a second from what I remember) to get him. Your smart ass comment implies that filatov was the only option, and obviously thats not what I was saying. top 5 you don't get a position which can be filled in the 5th or 6th round. you try and take skill

They're not...but the risk we run by holding on to him is that he doesn't pan out...and we get nothing in return for him in the future.
- Pen15

a 2nd round pick who will chip in 15 goals 5 years from now?

I'm exaggerating but you get the point.

Would cost you Gardiner and your 1st
- Symba007

chatroom prices are always higher then what it costs in real life

chatroom prices are always higher then what it costs in real life
- Shteven

there would be 29 teams making offers for Staal....the price would be high, most teams are looking for big skilled centers

Would cost you Gardiner and your 1st
- Symba007

Not Schenn and our 1st?

Boy would i love to see kessel and J Staal on a line together.
- Timeforsoup

Lupul would be good on that line.


They tried pairing bozak because he was more defensively responsible. Imagine a good 2 way centre who can still pot 30

Not Schenn and our 1st?
- Pen15

He sucks

Credit: Pen15

I didn't say don't take a defensemen. I'm pretty sure we were sitting a few spots back, with Hodgson, Myers and Karlsson still there.

We traded UP (at least a second from what I remember) to get him. Your smart ass comment implies that filatov was the only option, and obviously thats not what I was saying. top 5 you don't get a position which can be filled in the 5th or 6th round. you try and take skill
- Shteven

In your opinion you draft skill. So you wouldn't of drafted Pietrangelo or bogosian either than?

a 2nd round pick who will chip in 15 goals 5 years from now?

I'm exaggerating but you get the point.
- Lee Denault

I'm not suggesting we trade him straight up for a pick.

I'm suggesting we package him into a deal to land us one of our holes....goaltending, #1C or power forward...

there would be 29 teams making offers for Staal....the price would be high, most teams are looking for big skilled centers
- Symba007

There aren't 29 teams looking for Staal. Just a cliche. You could narrow it down to teams he would resign with, and might have some worthy assets, the list wouldn't be as long as you think

He sucks

Credit: Pen15
- Symba007

Heard it here first....

Credit: Fakepartofme

chatroom prices are always higher then what it costs in real life
- Shteven

Not true.

In your opinion you draft skill. So you wouldn't of drafted Pietrangelo or bogosian either than?
- Lee Denault

They have offsensive upside.

Schenn has nothing. He will chip in with a goal or 2 a year.

He sucks

Credit: Pen15
- Symba007

Ice time is irrelevant in determining whether a player is a top four defender or not.