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Forums :: Blog World :: Bill Meltzer: Meltzer's Musings: Frustrating Pattern
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PT21
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: 木糠布丁, PA
Joined: 03.04.2008

May 7 @ 10:14 AM ET
Barkan tried to imply that he did on the postgame show. THey show him sitting upright in the crease while a pile of players pick themselves up after the whistle and then start making assumptions as to what he's thinking. On another play they show him holding his blocker hand up, during the game I thought I heard Albert say something to the effect of him using that hand to freeze the puck. But nope during the post-game Barkaan knew that was because Bryz was telling off the team.

All I'm gonna say is, we've been shown clips of players getting frustrated with him, now when it matters most and they are playing like poop we wanna nit-pick how the goalie is reacting to his team's sub-play... interesting.

- JoeRussomanno



Barkann is a moron.
Jsaquella
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Bringing Hexy Back
Joined: 06.16.2006

May 7 @ 10:15 AM ET
I know he is the first one mentioned all the time. i still don't want to see him moved.

speaking of Simmonds, I know he is a complimentary player on this team but I have to admit I have been very disappointed and frustrated with his play.

- nastyflyergirl


I don't want to see him moved, either. I really haven't given much thought to the summer until last night
Philly1980
Philadelphia Flyers
Joined: 12.30.2011

May 7 @ 10:15 AM ET
regardless if they win or loose...the future is looking bright with Schenn, Couts, G, Voracek and Simmond...Notice i didnt say JVR...I think this is his last year with us. Think they are going to package him up for a defenseman.
JoeRussomanno
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: me bitter? F-no i think it's hilarious
Joined: 12.14.2011

May 7 @ 10:16 AM ET
Again, I'm quite positive that the Coaching staff addresses the defensive coverage issues. Look, this isn't a tight checking defensive team. It is an aggressive puck pressure, forechecking offensive team. They aren't skating like they should, or winning the battles. When they spend a lot of time in their own end, they breakdown. Look at the game winning goal. Look at the front of the net. You wouldn't see that much open ice with the Rangers or the Devils.
- MJL

Exactly! I understand about their offensive side, but when the puck is in their own zone why can't they play defensively. This team has enough firepower that when they get a hold of the puck they'll make teams pay. I just don't understand why they can't play more like the Devils and rangers in their own zone. If it's system, then I say the system needs to be adjusted. if it has been and players aren;t responding then I think homer has his work cut out for him again.
Jsaquella
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Bringing Hexy Back
Joined: 06.16.2006

May 7 @ 10:16 AM ET
I wasn't watching for him exclusively but I had to endure it to hear what Clement and Tocchet had to say about the actual hockey that was played.
- JoeRussomanno


I realize....I just won;t watch if he's on, regardless of Tocc or Clement
JoeRussomanno
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: me bitter? F-no i think it's hilarious
Joined: 12.14.2011

May 7 @ 10:16 AM ET
I realize....I just won;t watch if he's on, regardless of Tocc or Clement
- Jsaquella

Tocchs my favorite Flyer of all time I have to watch. Like the moth to the flame
Rayven
Boston Bruins
Location: The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist.
Joined: 07.21.2009

May 7 @ 10:21 AM ET
Well, can't really blame Bryz at this point, this must be shocking for Philly I know, but damn they gotta get their heads outta there collective asses and show some heart.
MBFlyerfan
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Be nice from now on, NJ
Joined: 03.17.2006

May 7 @ 10:22 AM ET
Barkan tried to imply that he did on the postgame show. THey show him sitting upright in the crease while a pile of players pick themselves up after the whistle and then start making assumptions as to what he's thinking. On another play they show him holding his blocker hand up, during the game I thought I heard Albert say something to the effect of him using that hand to freeze the puck. But nope during the post-game Barkaan knew that was because Bryz was telling off the team.

All I'm gonna say is, we've been shown clips of players getting frustrated with him, now when it matters most and they are playing like poop we wanna nit-pick how the goalie is reacting to his team's sub-play... interesting.

- JoeRussomanno


Right about that time I ripped Barkann on Twitter and he read it on the air. He was going to break and we were to stay tuned for some "AMAZING" comments by Bryz after the game. What a douche.
Shephardbd
Philadelphia Flyers
Joined: 01.16.2008

May 7 @ 10:24 AM ET
After watching the games, I believe it's easiest to thwart the forecheck by finding that guy in the middle of the ice. What I mean is, when the puck is up against the boards and they're battling for it...Why isn't Philly finding that man in the middle of the ice, in front of the goaltender to start the break out? I feel like Philly keeps trying to jam the puck out along the boards. A defender or another forward is always there to keep the puck in. They have to know this, right? The Devils did it all last game to counter act the Flyers forecheck. It worked great and the Devils countered effectively every time.
Jsaquella
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Bringing Hexy Back
Joined: 06.16.2006

May 7 @ 10:24 AM ET
Well, can't really blame Bryz at this point, this must be shocking for Philly I know, but damn they gotta get their heads outta there collective asses and show some heart.
- Rayven


Honestly, we've had this before. Couldn't blame Boucher in 2001. Or Cechmanek in 2002. Or Esche in 2004.

The media loves to simply blame the Philly goalie and say they haven't had one since Hextall. It's a nice simple narrative, which isn't true. They haven't had a "franchise" guy for awhile, but not many years where their goaltending was the primary reason they got snuffed.
MBFlyerfan
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Be nice from now on, NJ
Joined: 03.17.2006

May 7 @ 10:28 AM ET
After watching the games, I believe it's easiest to thwart the forecheck by finding that guy in the middle of the ice. What I mean is, when the puck is up against the boards and they're battling for it...Why isn't Philly finding that man in the middle of the ice, in front of the goaltender to start the break out? I feel like Philly keeps trying to jam the puck out along the boards. A defender or another forward is always there to keep the puck in. They have to know this, right? The Devils did it all last game to counter act the Flyers forecheck. It worked great and the Devils countered effectively every time.
- Shephardbd


I noticed this as well. But I also notice that the guy who should be in the middle tends to over commit towards the puck and leaves all that space behind him. They bunch up and are much easier to cover.

And they should be going off the boards when they are entering the offensive zone, instead they force it in to the middle and lose it.
Rayven
Boston Bruins
Location: The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist.
Joined: 07.21.2009

May 7 @ 10:29 AM ET
Honestly, we've had this before. Couldn't blame Boucher in 2001. Or Cechmanek in 2002. Or Esche in 2004.

The media loves to simply blame the Philly goalie and say they haven't had one since Hextall. It's a nice simple narrative, which isn't true. They haven't had a "franchise" guy for awhile, but not many years where their goaltending was the primary reason they got snuffed.

- Jsaquella


I've seen the same kind of thing, it's either the goalie plays well and the rest of team can't get it together, or the goalie can't stop a beach ball and the rest of the team is playing well. It's frustrating as hell, just like this series has been.
PT21
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: 木糠布丁, PA
Joined: 03.04.2008

May 7 @ 10:32 AM ET
regardless if they win or loose...the future is looking bright with Schenn, Couts, G, Voracek and Simmond...Notice i didnt say JVR...I think this is his last year with us. Think they are going to package him up for a defenseman.
- Philly1980



The future also looked bright with Carter, Richards, JVR and Giroux 3 years ago. There is many a slip between the cup and the lip, as they say.

In the playoffs:

Schenn: has contributed negligibly in offensive zone, bad in defensive zone
Couts: Amazing defensive game, but offensive upside is still TBD. But probably the best find of the season.
Simmonds: Given that his game is supposed to be about winning battles and showing emotion and he looks healthy, his awful play raises a huge red flag to me, especially since last year he was much more noticeable in LA. AT best, he seems like a streaky player.
JVR: His value will never be lower. I would hang on to him and trade him after he puts up some decent points. Which he will.
Voracek: Second best find, and you can see this is a player who continues to work even when the chips are down.
Jagr: Bye bye.

Lavy: well, the entire flyers game is predicated on having enough offense and forecheck to overcome poor defensive play by forwards. This is a pretty spectacular meltdown and if it wasn't for Brodeur, Flyers would have been shut out a couple of times.
JoeRussomanno
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: me bitter? F-no i think it's hilarious
Joined: 12.14.2011

May 7 @ 10:33 AM ET
Right about that time I ripped Barkann on Twitter and he read it on the air. He was going to break and we were to stay tuned for some "AMAZING" comments by Bryz after the game. What a douche.
- MBFlyerfan

i saw that. Why is there a need to create something out of nothing? There is so much going on in the damn game! I guess with the season in danger they need to start building up for fallout mode. Just a shame really.
Shephardbd
Philadelphia Flyers
Joined: 01.16.2008

May 7 @ 10:34 AM ET
I noticed this as well. But I also notice that the guy who should be in the middle tends to over commit towards the puck and leaves all that space behind him. They bunch up and are much easier to cover.

And they should be going off the boards when they are entering the offensive zone, instead they force it in to the middle and lose it.

- MBFlyerfan



Insanely frustrating. It's like beating your head against a wall. "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - Albert Einstein
canadianpenfan
Pittsburgh Penguins
Location: Calgary
Joined: 05.13.2010

May 7 @ 10:34 AM ET
Honestly, we've had this before. Couldn't blame Boucher in 2001. Or Cechmanek in 2002. Or Esche in 2004.

The media loves to simply blame the Philly goalie and say they haven't had one since Hextall. It's a nice simple narrative, which isn't true. They haven't had a "franchise" guy for awhile, but not many years where their goaltending was the primary reason they got snuffed.

- Jsaquella



Is the media blaming Bryz? That games was 6-2 without him yesterday. This series is looking an awful lot like the first round with the Flyers playing the role of the Penguins, minus 10 or 12 goals a game.
OrangeBlack27
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: i do, mike, PA
Joined: 06.29.2006

May 7 @ 10:35 AM ET
This is in response to a now-deleted post but please take it as a warning. Wishing physical harm on someone will earn you a serious ban. This is hockey. It's a game. It is for entertainment. If it drives you to wish physical harm on someone, seek professional help.
- bodiva88


even if the harm is wished upon 2real?
PT21
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: 木糠布丁, PA
Joined: 03.04.2008

May 7 @ 10:38 AM ET
After watching the games, I believe it's easiest to thwart the forecheck by finding that guy in the middle of the ice. What I mean is, when the puck is up against the boards and they're battling for it...Why isn't Philly finding that man in the middle of the ice, in front of the goaltender to start the break out? I feel like Philly keeps trying to jam the puck out along the boards. A defender or another forward is always there to keep the puck in. They have to know this, right? The Devils did it all last game to counter act the Flyers forecheck. It worked great and the Devils countered effectively every time.
- Shephardbd



I think quite often they are winning those puck battles, if at all, while facing the boards and a backhand back along the boards is safer than a no-look backhand across the ice. If the Flyers forwards showed more anticipation and hustle, at the very least the next Devils player (usually the D-man on the point) is unable to make a play on the puck and it skitters out.
JoeRussomanno
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: me bitter? F-no i think it's hilarious
Joined: 12.14.2011

May 7 @ 10:38 AM ET
Is the media blaming Bryz? That games was 6-2 without him yesterday. This series is looking an awful lot like the first round with the Flyers playing the role of the Penguins, minus 10 or 12 goals a game.
- canadianpenfan

If his teammates would just cover people that could have been a 2-0 flyers win. In fact it's my biggest complaint right now. They're getting beat all over, but I think the simplest thing of just plain old coverage is killing them.

Maybe I'm too programmed from watching football for years to think Hockey teams can make drastic adjustments and still be successful. All I'm saying is, to hell with winning with this style or that style just go (frank)ing win! If that means you have to swallow your ego and play a perceived style that is not of your preference well then suck it up and go do it or go home!
Scoob
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: love is love
Joined: 06.29.2006

May 7 @ 10:39 AM ET
For the record, he believes they’ve finally found their guy in Bryzgalov, even if most of Philadelphia would have begged to differ during the season.

“It’s a lot of goalies to the one,” Brodeur said. “But I think signing Bryzgalov could slow that down for a while. Regardless of what people think of him, I think he’s a really good goalie. He’s got the size, he’s got the natural ability to play the game that I really like.”


- MB

markmark
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Toronto, ON
Joined: 07.27.2010

May 7 @ 10:39 AM ET
I think Giroux walks the same way Weber did. With a "fine".

I think the outcome of the game will be a factor. If it went 2-2, he would sit for 1, but because its now an elimination game he won't get sat.
FlyerGuy
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: PA
Joined: 06.18.2007

May 7 @ 10:41 AM ET
It's a gloomy Monday morning in Flyerville.

I can handle losing this series. I can even handle losing this series to the Devils ... and even after winning the first game. I just can't handle the way we're losing.

It's like they never saw a hard forecheck before. They're being beaten to every lose puck, and I don't think I've ever seen a team do more poorly in their own defensive zone.

Going forward, the ONLY good thing that might come out of this is that Bryz is the last player who could be blamed. Ironically enough, before this series began many believed he was "most likely to fail." Funny how things work out.


btw, Giroux deserves a game. Just a dirty hit, and completely unnecessary.
canadianpenfan
Pittsburgh Penguins
Location: Calgary
Joined: 05.13.2010

May 7 @ 10:42 AM ET
If his teammates would just cover people that could have been a 2-0 flyers win. In fact it's my biggest complaint right now. They're getting beat all over, but I think the simplest thing of just plain old coverage is killing them.

Maybe I'm too programmed from watching football for years to think Hockey teams can make drastic adjustments and still be successful. All I'm saying is, to hell with winning with this style or that style just go (frank)ing win! If that means you have to swallow your ego and play a perceived style that is not of your preference well then suck it up and go do it or go home!

- JoeRussomanno



From what I can see it has less to do with "adjustments" and more to do with effort. One goal yesterday JVR just let his man go and score. Another Hartnell completely blew his assignment. Devils players are getting loose around the net while the Flyer defenders watch them, that's why they're losing. If I was Bryz I would be pissed.
wolfhounds
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: dicky seamus, PA
Joined: 06.02.2009

May 7 @ 10:44 AM ET
Lavy: well, the entire flyers game is predicated on having enough offense and forecheck to overcome poor defensive play by forwards. This is a pretty spectacular meltdown and if it wasn't for Brodeur, Flyers would have been shut out a couple of times.
- PT21


That cuts both ways...without Brodeur the Devils D isn't nearly as effective as it currently is. Brodeur is a goalie and a 3rd D man stopping, passing, and clearing pucks throughout the game. It's amazing to watch the little things he does and how it's such a release valve to get out of the zone quickly and easily.
MJL
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Candyland, PA
Joined: 09.20.2007

May 7 @ 10:45 AM ET
From what I can see it has less to do with "adjustments" and more to do with effort. One goal yesterday JVR just let his man go and score. Another Hartnell completely blew his assignment. Devils players are getting loose around the net while the Flyer defenders watch them, that's why they're losing. If I was Bryz I would be pissed.
- canadianpenfan



Correctly identified the culprits on those plays. But honestly, this is a team wide issue. Other then Bryzgalov, I don't see any player who is without culpability. And I'm personally not going to single out any one player when it's the entire team. And I'm not saying that you did. Just making a general statement.
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