I was thinking he was already in and they would be playing another rookie too. it's a mess right now. Glad we have the coach we do.
- JoeRussomanno

Just example of the current six guys

Carle
Lilja
Coburn
Timonen
Kubina
Gus

This:


- GoFlyersGoSlovakia

That's nasty dude. I did something close to that in Grade 5. Hope your rehab goes well.

Yes.

Everybody here believes it was malicious because it was Malkin and the Penguins are head hunters.

I'm not saying I know if he intended to or not...and you can have an opinion either way...fine.

He was, however, making a play on the puck...which does make a difference in determining if there was intent or not...at least according to the NHL rules.

Look, I argued with Penguin fans about the Steckel hit on Crosby. Seemed like a bad accident to me. But a lot of people wanted to make Steckel out to be a goon.

The evidence simply suggested otherwise.

Maybe he could have voided Crosby, maybe not. There was no clear intent...so I chose to think he dd not intend on hitting Crosby in the head.
- icedog97


Then my question to you is? If groomsman was crosby and rinaldo was malkin, rinaldo would have a minimum 10 games for it. It would be playing nationally on a loop for the next year or so. This is what disgusts me the duality and the simple fact of intent. If its malkin we hear 'Oh hes just trying to make a play for puck' if its rinaldo its 'Look at that cheapshot and those goon flyers'.
- Philly1980

If you choose to go down that road...please proceed.

I'm staying here because it was not my intention to get involved in 'speculation', or feed some anger you have toward Crosby, Malkin or the Penguins.

My intention was simply to point to what happened and raise a valid question.

If the evidence had shown otherwise, like with Steckel, I would have admitted it.

If he wasn't playing the puck...I would have admitted it.

If he had raised his elbow as he hit Grossman...I would have admitted it.

If that isn't reviewed, this league is bullpoop. It's a headshot, plain and simple.
- wolfhounds

It should be reviewed, but seeing it for the first time, I am conflicted. Malkin's intent wasn't to go in there and throw a hit, but when he got there IMO he used his body to break through anything in the way, and that was Grossmann's head. It should be suspendable, but if the rules say that it has to be intentional, then I dont think it's suspendable as you can easily say he was trying to force his way to the puck...

But that just helps my point that any contact to the head, that is a result of a check, or blind hit, should be suspendable regardless of intent.

If that isn't reviewed, this league is bullpoop. It's a headshot, plain and simple.
- wolfhounds

clearly shows as long as your a star in the league, do what you will.

That's nasty dude. I did something close to that in Grade 5. Hope your rehab goes well.
- rockychocbill

Thanks

My first bkoken bone/s

Unfortunately in 5th grade I would have healed a LOT faster.

WTF is going on in Pennsylvania?

Nope. Coburn is.
- PLindbergh31

Yes. And if Carle can't handle the top assignments, why would he expect to be paid like a top d-man?

And I still can't quite wrap my head around the fact the Pens got 4 PPs back to back to start the 2nd, but nothing was called on the 2 headshots/high hits Grossmann received from the Pens.

That makes a lot of sense. And now he's out.

Yet people are whining about Rinaldo?

WTF is going on in Pennsylvania?
- benderboots

We would like to know too.

WTF is going on in Pennsylvania?
- benderboots

hockey's version of Helter Skelter

clearly shows as long as your a star in the league, do what you will.
- the deaninator

Flyers got a break when Neal was suspended for a game. There is no chance Malkin will be out in this series. He would have to cripple someone. However, Shanahan takes into account a player being injured but something tells me not on this play.

Yes. Do you think my January prediction of us seeing Leighton play goal these playoffs will come true?
- rockychocbill

no way.

if they do, then they aren't going anywhere!

It should be reviewed, but seeing it for the first time, I am conflicted. Malkin's intent wasn't to go in there and throw a hit, but when he got there IMO he used his body to break through anything in the way, and that was Grossmann's head. It should be suspendable, but if the rules say that it has to be intentional then I dont think it's suspendable as you can easily say he was trying to force his way to the puck...

But that just helps my point that any contact to the head, that is a result of a check, or blind hit, should be suspendable regardless of intent.
- RooNosHockey

to me this is the crux of the problem. Unless you can clearly tell by body language, speed, etc, its almost impossible to prove intentional. I hardly believe Neal "didn't see" coots, and its a yes/no battle between the perpitrator and Shannahan.
Malkin hits Grossman in the head. Intentional or not, it should be suspendable. The NFL made the ruling clear; if you so much as touch the quarterback in the head during play its a fine at minimum. And a heafty one at that. If the NHL really is serious about headshots they would have more of a hard line like this. Questioning intent, bringing in prior offenses, and having a double standard for stars and the rest of the league is a joke.

WTF is going on in Pennsylvania?
- benderboots

State Championship finals man!!!

There are hats to be worn!!!

It should be reviewed, but seeing it for the first time, I am conflicted. Malkin's intent wasn't to go in there and throw a hit, but when he got there IMO he used his body to break through anything in the way, and that was Grossmann's head. It should be suspendable, but if the rules say that it has to be intentional, then I dont think it's suspendable as you can easily say he was trying to force his way to the puck...

But that just helps my point that any contact to the head, that is a result of a check, or blind hit, should be suspendable regardless of intent.
- RooNosHockey

He didn't lean up and into Grossmann by mistake, therefore hitting the head was intentional. And Grossmann never saw him coming where Malkin saw everything in front of him and could have avoided contact altogether.

Further, Malkin has a history of throwing the elbow.

Yes. And if Carle can't handle the top assignments, why would he expect to be paid like a top d-man?

And I still can't quite wrap my head around the fact the Pens got 4 PPs back to back to start the 2nd, but nothing was called on the 2 headshots/high hits Grossmann received from the Pens.

That makes a lot of sense. And now he's out.

Yet people are whining about Rinaldo?
- wolfhounds

If you're not cheating, you're not trying, right?

It should be reviewed, but seeing it for the first time, I am conflicted. Malkin's intent wasn't to go in there and throw a hit, but when he got there IMO he used his body to break through anything in the way, and that was Grossmann's head. It should be suspendable, but if the rules say that it has to be intentional, then I dont think it's suspendable as you can easily say he was trying to force his way to the puck...

But that just helps my point that any contact to the head, that is a result of a check, or blind hit, should be suspendable regardless of intent.
- RooNosHockey

Thanks.

That's a fair assessment.

And that's where the rules...like the Nystrom hit on Letang...make it tough to call it one way or the other.

If you make them black and white...then there will be suspension for accidents...assuming you believe the Steckel hit was an accident (like I said earlier) then Steckel would have been suspended.

But that whole thing also brings 'fighting' into the mix...and no player or GM wants to ban it.

It would look...please don't kill me for saying this...hypocritical...for the league to outlaw any hits/bumps to the head at all...but allow two guys to punch each other silly.

honestly Carle hasn't been stellar but he hasn't been awful. He's being asked to play above his level a little and against the elite of the elite. I think even you gotta give him some credit. Every mistake he's making there's at least a baker's dozen good things he's doing. I do believe without looking he's logging more minutes than any other flyer.
- JoeRussomanno

Not as much as coburn, who has been better.

Yes. And if Carle can't handle the top assignments, why would he expect to be paid like a top d-man?

And I still can't quite wrap my head around the fact the Pens got 4 PPs back to back to start the 2nd, but nothing was called on the 2 headshots/high hits Grossmann received from the Pens.

That makes a lot of sense. And now he's out.

Yet people are whining about Rinaldo?
- wolfhounds

well said, hopefully grossman isn't out long.

He didn't lean up and into Grossmann by mistake, therefore hitting the head was intentional. And Grossmann never saw him coming where Malkin saw everything in front of him and could have avoided contact altogether.

Further, Malkin has a history of throwing the elbow.
- wolfhounds

and sometimes he misses.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_Sy-miL-2I

Yes. And if Carle can't handle the top assignments, why would he expect to be paid like a top d-man?

And I still can't quite wrap my head around the fact the Pens got 4 PPs back to back to start the 2nd, but nothing was called on the 2 headshots/high hits Grossmann received from the Pens.

That makes a lot of sense. And now he's out.

Yet people are whining about Rinaldo?
- wolfhounds

I would be surprised if Rinaldo plays any more games in the playoffs. If he breaths on someone he gets called for a penalty. He lost his mind last night and should be suspended, if he's not Laviolette should replace him with Harry Z, until JVR is ready.

More importantly the defense and goaltending being in shambles is much more concerning than who the 12th forward is... (That being said it better not be Shelley)

On the amazing save on Letang, Bryzgalov was pushing off on the left foot, and was already leaning the right way to somehow get over.

Agree that his lateral movement, even without the chip fracture, is pretty average. That does make it harder to tell.
- bmeltzer

I thought Bryz was pushing off his right foot on Letang's save and had to push off the left last night?

Flyers got a break when Neal was suspended for a game. There is no chance Malkin will be out in this series. He would have to cripple someone. However, Shanahan takes into account a player being injured but something tells me not on this play.
- stveshdy

Depends on who he crippled. If it was Rinaldo, Lilja, or Kubina it would just be a fine.

I thought Bryz was pushing off his right foot on Letang's save and had to push off the left last night?
- nhindian

that's what I thought too. either way it was two different directions.

As it stands the d-core is brutally banged up.

Kubina isnt playing at 100%, Grossman still has a (frank)ed knee and a concussion.

Meszaros had back surgery for (frank)s sake.

The forwards are generally healthy and they need to help big time defensively. No letting your man get by, or being outmuscled so easily.

Thats one factor. However in the end it is a goaltender that can often settle a team down, change momentum, and win a game. Before the start of this series Bill said that Bryzgalov will have to steal a game.

I still believe that. You can say what you will about a team playing well defensively, and dont get me wrong the Flyers have not. However ask the penguins how a weak goal at the worst time can change momentum. The Flyers need Bryzgalov to play like a star. Not average.