I think any good play during the last month of the season that Paul Martin had, has been quickly erased in 3 games. And I truly hope he is traded around the time of the draft

You would undoubtedly be laughing your ass off and cheering if Hartnell did it. It would be passe off as "gamesmanship" and an attempt to agitate.
- akane13

I would laugh, cause it was funny, but to ignore the fact that it is childish is foolish. And to come out and whining in the media about how "i don't like them just cause i don't like them" reminded me of a 10 year old sitting in the principles office getting yelled at for picking on someone.

Lets be honest though, Sid hasnt been around for much of the last year and a half. Some of the issues coming to a head have most certainly found their genesis when he was gone. Is Crosby blameless, definitely not, but just like the Titanic, you cant just stop things when you want once the momentum has started.
- Gunner Staal

That's why I said it doesn't start and end with Crosby, I dunno who else is in your teams leadership group but they gotta step up.

Anyone want to touch upon the above mentioned? Not necessarily if you lose wednesday...but dont make it past first round.
- noename09

I have no interest in taking part in stupid trade rumors that benefit the Leafs, no offense. Would you trade any of them in the Penguins situation? Its dumb.

From a hockey standpoint and not the intangibles, the Penguins are losing because they have two players in their top 4 defense that are playing at a bottom pairing (or lower) level in Martin/Michalek that are heavily relied on.

You confuse entertaining hockey for "good hockey." Neither team has played consistent, good hockey during this series.
- akane13

rrrgh...really going to disect that one eh? Fine. Its been damn good, entertaining hockey.

Its the playoffs guys...were you expecting full organized, back and forth hockey with no interruption? Playoff hockey changes the momentum of games...more speed, more hits, more errors made. Its gritty, good old fashioned hockey. I like it

The Pens need to stop trying to match the grit of the Flyers and focus on their speed and skill to move the puck and get more chances. Rather than trying to win the game, they are seemingly trying to "outscore" the Flyers without playing any solid defensive hockey.

That for me is where the problems are: Trying to play with too much grit; trying to outscore the Flyers(poor defense).

The Penguins are the bad guys again! Was I the only one suprised Grossman didn't get 5 and a game for the knee to knee on Neal? Just because Neal didn't lie on the ice for 5 minutes and feign injury (coots and schenn), is likely the only reason he is not the focal point of this discussion.

- Sell My Monkey

what was the difference between that play and what Vitale did to Grossman? Depending on the camera angle you looked at both plays looked either borderline dirty or borderline clean?

How many times have you skated across center ice and been flattened from the opposite direction then popped up right away? Maybe every game you play that happens to you and you get right back up..more power to you.. saying that those two hits were the players "feigning injury" is funny though..

Perhaps you should focus on the following reasons why the Pens are losing...

1. Giroux has been the best player in this series. Followed by Briere , who averages more then a point per playoff game over the course of 100 games..
2. Your goalie has forgotten how to control rebounds.
3. You defense has forgotten how to play defense
4. They Flyers have more team speed and talent than the Pens. The Flyers need to shutdown Neal, Crosby and Malkin (based on play this series) while the Pens have 8-10 forwards to deal with.
5. The Pens have two of the best players in Malkin and Crosby who have the talent to win games on their own..they chose to try and good it up though ..

I have no interest in taking part in stupid trade rumors that benefit the Leafs, no offense. Would you trade any of them in the Penguins situation? Its dumb.

From a hockey standpoint and not the intangibles, the Penguins are losing because they have two players in their top 4 defense that are playing at a bottom pairing (or lower) level in Martin/Michalek that are heavily relied on.
- Gunner Staal

Not once did I suggest any "particual" rumors? I was merely asking, that if the Pens dont make it, would you think they might consider moving a guy like Staal for a nice package from Toronto? Toronto has a few pieces that could help out, imo (not to get into specs, just whether Staal could be moved).

this is the face of the league talking like that, being re-broadcast in multiple countries
- jimbro83

He's conveiniently the face of the league to make points against him. The rest of the time he's a whiney douche. No win situation with you all.

That's why I said it doesn't start and end with Crosby, I dunno who else is in your teams leadership group but they gotta step up.
- Rayven

It has been a perfect storm for negative outcomes as it pertains to the Penguins. A lot of frustration is coming out that has been bottled up for almost 2 years. The Flyers are probably the only team that could expose these things to the level it has.

A healthy team and the summer to get their heads out of their asses will go a long way in reorganizing things to a much more respectable level.

Presently, this is a real low point, long term, probably not as big of a deal as people want to make it.

I think any good play during the last month of the season that Paul Martin had, has been quickly erased in 3 games. And I truly hope he is traded around the time of the draft
- ryman1566

Their team D is terrible. All 5 guys on the ice, regardless of position, are not playing well as a unit. Part of that is on them; part of it is on the coaching staff not taking greater measures to hold guys accountable throughout the season and continuing to insist on playing a system that preaches offense over defense. "Get to our game" means spending time in the opponent's zone. It doesn't seem to account much, anymore, for the other two zones on the ice.

Someone here said the other day that the coaching staff can only lead the horse to water....true....but if the water is alkaline, it makes little difference.

Not once did I suggest any "particual" rumors? I was merely asking, that if the Pens dont make it, would you think they might consider moving a guy like Staal for a nice package from Toronto? Toronto has a few pieces that could help out, imo (not to get into specs, just whether Staal could be moved).
- noename09

Why would the Penguins move Staal? And why would Toronto have the best package if they indeed did choose to move him?

It has been a perfect storm for negative outcomes as it pertains to the Penguins. A lot of frustration is coming out that has been bottled up for almost 2 years. The Flyers are probably the only team that could expose these things to the level it has.

A healthy team and the summer to get their heads out of their asses will go a long way in reorganizing things to a much more respectable level.

Presently, this is a real low point, long term, probably not as big of a deal as people want to make it.
- Gunner Staal

Was just thinking this has been the lowest point since the lockout. everything you said, is how I feel as well.

It has been a perfect storm for negative outcomes as it pertains to the Penguins. A lot of frustration is coming out that has been bottled up for almost 2 years. The Flyers are probably the only team that could expose these things to the level it has.

A healthy team and the summer to get their heads out of their asses will go a long way in reorganizing things to a much more respectable level.

Presently, this is a real low point, long term, probably not as big of a deal as people want to make it.
- Gunner Staal

Indeed, I'm talking about this series, not long term. I'm sure they will be just fine down the road.

and you hate it cause you can't argue against it
- Rayven

I don't have hate. Especially when it comes to a Hockey Message Board. I come here to discuss the game, not get TROLLED for effect. But you do you and I'll be fine.

Indeed, I'm talking about this series, not long term. I'm sure they will be just fine down the road.
- Rayven

Well the series is a mess, that much is obvious to anybody with a TV set.

I don't have hate. Especially when it comes to a Hockey Message Board. I come here to discuss the game, not get TROLLED for effect. But you do you and I'll be fine.
- Doogs

I don't have hate either, it was a simple statement, his comments and his attitude towards the media were douchy. I'll be just fine as well.

Why would the Penguins move Staal? And why would Toronto have the best package if they indeed did choose to move him?
- Gunner Staal

k lets try this again.

Im asking that if the Pens dont make it, that they might consider, if the package is right, to move a guy like Staal.

No where do I mentioned Toronto has the best package, however I feel as they could have a (good) package to offer if the Pens would consider moving him to shake things up a bit.

Perhaps for next year, if you need to combat the Flyers again in the playoffs, you could have your own Schenn to battle them in your own end?

Discussion, is all. Toronto needs a big centerman, Staal is stuck behind Malkin and Crosby...will need to resign soon, do you think he resigns knowing he will never amount to 1/2nd line because hes behind two of the best centers in the league?

pens= punching bag of nhl

Well the series is a mess, that much is obvious to anybody with a TV set.
- Gunner Staal

and that is what we were discussing, where the responsibility should lie when poop goes south like yesterday, or at least that's what I thought we were discussing

pens= punching bag of nhl
- ovi8isles

If that is all you can contribute, you should probably take a hike.

pens= punching bag of nhl
- ovi8isles

Wait...I didn't see the announcement that the Islanders had officially handed the title over...did that happen?

pens= punching bag of nhl
- ovi8isles

No this is true.

When your team did 5 times worse in a useless game, it was said it was deserved. It was said that they had "taken enough".

If the roles were reversed and the Pens were up and the Flyers would do it, it would be said that they were trying to change momentum by intimidation.

But because a bunch of teams decided to strike out and whine publically against the whiney Pens it makes the Pens the bad guys because bandwagon jumping is more fun.

I think the league as a whole is reaping what they have sown as far as discipline is concerned, if they would have brought the hammer down with punishments from the get go, perhaps they wouldn't be so busy right now. Just a complete lack of respect. And yes, I'm including players from the Pens as well

I think the league as a whole is reaping what they have sown as far as discipline is concerned, if they would have brought the hammer down with punishments from the get go, perhaps they wouldn't be so busy right now. Just a complete lack of respect. And yes, I'm including players from the Pens as well
- ryman1566

This

No this is true.

When your team did 5 times worse in a useless game, it was said it was deserved. It was said that they had "taken enough".

If the roles were reversed and the Pens were up and the Flyers would do it, it would be said that they were trying to change momentum by intimidation.

But because a bunch of teams decided to strike out and whine publically against the whiney Pens it makes the Pens the bad guys because bandwagon jumping is more fun.
- Doogs

Kinda feel bad for the guy, I mean, how many seasons has it been since he had any meaningful games/playoffs to cheer for. He's just trying to change the momentum of his team/fanbase by trolling.