*buffs knuckles on chest*
- Flyskippy

do i need to post a picture of a cookie?

do i need to post a picture of a cookie?
- hammarby31

crickets.

The old war horse leads the back end into battle once again.
- flyer_nutter

Warrior.

I relate this to vacation. Right now the anticipation is just so high, you're going to Hawaii and you can't wait to get there. Then we'll spend about 10 days drinking beer on the beach while looking at scantily clad beach girls. Then one of us will hop a plane to Cuba and the other will go home.

Moral of the story: It doesn't get better then the first part of the trip.
- canadianpenfan

enjoy home.

Yeah, what was I thinking, they will probably use women refs from the Olympics.

- MBFlyerfan

oh man, women. amiright.

i do not like the oilers getting the #1 draft pick three years in a row. it's (frank)ing bullpoop is what it is. there should be a rule that prevents this from happening. no more than 2 consecutive years. i understand the desire for parity in the league, but i don't like teams being rewarded for failure that simply gives them the opportunity to collect a pile of stars if they're lucky, like the flyers current opponent. being able to draft crosby, malkin, fleury, and staal isn't exactly fair is it?
- hammarby31

totes agree.

I relate this to vacation. Right now the anticipation is just so high, you're going to Hawaii and you can't wait to get there. Then we'll spend about 10 days drinking beer on the beach while looking at scantily clad beach girls. Then one of us will hop a plane to Cuba and the other will go home.

Moral of the story: It doesn't get better then the first part of the trip.
- canadianpenfan

I know there were other words in that post, and something about a Moral, but for the life of me I can't work them out...

Yeah, what was I thinking, they will probably use women refs from the Olympics.

- MBFlyerfan

Oh you mean they'll be actual competent refs instead of the permanently incompetent male refs currently employed by the NHL.

enjoy home.
- Don'tForgetTocchet

I don't plan on going home yet, I took 2 months off.

I know there were other words in that post, and something about a Moral, but for the life of me I can't work them out...
- wolfhounds

I don't plan on going home yet, I took 2 months off.
- canadianpenfan

what are you going to do for the last 6.5 weeks?

i do not like the oilers getting the #1 draft pick three years in a row. it's (frank)ing bullpoop is what it is. there should be a rule that prevents this from happening. no more than 2 consecutive years. i understand the desire for parity in the league, but i don't like teams being rewarded for failure that simply gives them the opportunity to collect a pile of stars if they're lucky, like the flyers current opponent. being able to draft crosby, malkin, fleury, and staal isn't exactly fair is it?
- hammarby31

I don't know how you can make it more fair than the current lottery system. There is no longer a guarantee that being dead last gets you the top pick. Columbus suffered that fate this year. On the other side of the coin, if teams and their fanbases are willing to suffer through lean seasons to do a rebuild, what's not fair about that tradeoff?

And lest you respond that its easy to just pick generational talents with high picks, let me remind you that your own Flyers had the opportunity to ice a team by circa 1992 that would have included BOTH Jagr and Forsberg (and Hextall, Huffman, and the #1 picks)....if they had drafted Jagr instead of Ricci in 1990 and had elected to hang onto Forsberg instead of trading for Lindros.

This is not meant to take a shot at what Philly ultimately did, but rather point out that assembling a contending team via high draft is picks hardly painting by numbers.

And lest you respond that its easy to just pick generational talents with high picks, let me remind you that your own Flyers had the opportunity to ice a team by circa 1992 that would have included BOTH Jagr and Forsberg (and Hextall, Huffman, and the #1 picks)....if they had drafted Jagr instead of Ricci in 1990 and had elected to hang onto Forsberg instead of trading for Lindros.
- Emperor Filonius

Make him stop...somebody make him stop!

Lindros was amazing to watch, no doubt about it, but when it went bad - the Flyers and his family, the concussions, the punctured lung - it soured real quick...it was just an awful divorce.

And then we get Forsberg in town and see what he can do in O&B and I died a little inside knowing we could have had him in his prime...

Make him stop...somebody make him stop!

Lindros was amazing to watch, no doubt about it, but when it went bad - the Flyers and his family, the concussions, the punctured lung - it soured real quick...it was just an awful divorce.

And then we get Forsberg in town and see what he can do in O&B and I died a little inside knowing we could have had him in his prime...
- wolfhounds

Yeah, I think the one that really changed the landscape of the NHL was Jagr. If the Flyers had drafted him instead of Ricci and realized what they had, maybe they don't make the play for Lindros at all, and keep Foppa and everyone else. This is an alternate reality that is downright frightening as a Pens fan. We probably don't win the second cup in '92 without Jagr and as much as things soured with him at the end, he was the premiere gate draw for the team in the late 90's...and the fact that the Pens had to trade him for essentially nothing started the downward cycle that lead to them getting Sid and Geno...

So the moral of the story is if you can build a time machine and go back to 1990 and convince the Flyers GM (Farwell?? at that point?) to pick Jagr, you probably destroy the future of the Penguins

I don't know how you can make it more fair than the current lottery system. There is no longer a guarantee that being dead last gets you the top pick. Columbus suffered that fate this year. On the other side of the coin, if teams and their fanbases are willing to suffer through lean seasons to do a rebuild, what's not fair about that tradeoff?

And lest you respond that its easy to just pick generational talents with high picks, let me remind you that your own Flyers had the opportunity to ice a team by circa 1992 that would have included BOTH Jagr and Forsberg (and Hextall, Huffman, and the #1 picks)....if they had drafted Jagr instead of Ricci in 1990 and had elected to hang onto Forsberg instead of trading for Lindros.

This is not meant to take a shot at what Philly ultimately did, but rather point out that assembling a contending team via high draft is picks hardly painting by numbers.
- Emperor Filonius

luck and smarts are the key factors. not every franchise that gets top picks is going to benefit from having generational talents fall in their lap, just the same as those that do don't necessarily make the right decisions. my point wasn't a shot at pittsburgh, just using them as an example.

i'm well aware of the jagr-ricci scenario. who the hell knows why they did what they did. i don't second guess the decision to go for lindros. he was a generational talent and pulled the flyers out of their lone dark period in their 40+ year history. they had concerns about forsberg. it's easy to say in hindsight the flyers hould have kept forsberg, but they didn't have enough talent around lindros to win. hextall then, and in his later return was a shell of his early self. forsberg had the benefit of playing on an extremely talented team that didn't win until the patrick roy trade. coincidence? i don't think so.

anyway, i'm not sure what the best method would be, but i don't waiver in my belief that bottom feeders should continually get to stock pile with top picks. look at detroit, and philly - always top teams, typically with very late first rounders yet they find ways to draft well and fill in the gaps and continue to be able to compete.

I don't know how you can make it more fair than the current lottery system. There is no longer a guarantee that being dead last gets you the top pick. Columbus suffered that fate this year. On the other side of the coin, if teams and their fanbases are willing to suffer through lean seasons to do a rebuild, what's not fair about that tradeoff?

And lest you respond that its easy to just pick generational talents with high picks, let me remind you that your own Flyers had the opportunity to ice a team by circa 1992 that would have included BOTH Jagr and Forsberg (and Hextall, Huffman, and the #1 picks)....if they had drafted Jagr instead of Ricci in 1990 and had elected to hang onto Forsberg instead of trading for Lindros.

This is not meant to take a shot at what Philly ultimately did, but rather point out that assembling a contending team via high draft is picks hardly painting by numbers.
- Emperor Filonius

How much of the fanbase supports a team through the lean years?

I know that the Pens and Caps saw attendance drops during their lean years(pre-Crosby & Ovechkin). Hell, we've seen it in Philly with the Phillies and Sixers. I'm not one who will "forget" the years when the Phillies tried to sell us that a line up with Ricky Otero, Rico Brogna and Juan Bell was a major league team & the Vet was a home game for the Mets.

Assembling a team with high picks is not an exact science. Columbus has picked in the top 10 every year of their existence, but one. They have played 4 playoff games in 11 years. However, let's not pretend that the Jackets ever had a shot at a guy like Crosby or even Malkin.

I'm not accusing the Pens of tanking, but when the do suck, they have the absolute best timing in sports history.

But, I digress. When they were drafted, particularly Forsberg, neither he or Jagr was as sure fire a bet as Crosby or Malkin. In Jagr's case there was also the whole "fall of communism" angle, as well...Pens had the balls to do it and kudos to them.

The Flyers were fairly well supported during their lean years in the early 1990's, and even during the 2006-07 season, when the bottom fell out, the attendance was high. Because even during the lean years, there was always an effort to do as well as possible.

Fortunately for Flyers fans, the years the team has been run by Ed Snider, winning has been the primary goal.

Yeah, I think the one that really changed the landscape of the NHL was Jagr. If the Flyers had drafted him instead of Ricci and realized what they had, maybe they don't make the play for Lindros at all, and keep Foppa and everyone else. This is an alternate reality that is downright frightening as a Pens fan. We probably don't win the second cup in '92 without Jagr and as much as things soured with him at the end, he was the premiere gate draw for the team in the late 90's...and the fact that the Pens had to trade him for essentially nothing started the downward cycle that lead to them getting Sid and Geno...

So the moral of the story is if you can build a time machine and go back to 1990 and convince the Flyers GM (Farwell?? at that point?) to pick Jagr, you probably destroy the future of the Penguins
- Emperor Filonius

if i could build a time machine i would go back to 1985 and have the bruins beat the flyers on saturday, november 9. it would have changed everything.

if i could build a time machine i would go back to 1985 and have the bruins beat the flyers on saturday, november 9. it would have changed everything.
- hammarby31

I would have just stolen his (frank)ing car. Then he would have had to take a taxi

Make him stop...somebody make him stop!

Lindros was amazing to watch, no doubt about it, but when it went bad - the Flyers and his family, the concussions, the punctured lung - it soured real quick...it was just an awful divorce.

And then we get Forsberg in town and see what he can do in O&B and I died a little inside knowing we could have had him in his prime...
- wolfhounds

When he was missing 1/4 of his team's games and the organization was dealing with HIS intrusive father. The diffeerence? they way the Avs organization dealt with it.

The old war horse leads the back end into battle once again.
- flyer_nutter

You are the man. I stole your pic.

if i could build a time machine i would go back to 1985 and have the bruins beat the flyers on saturday, november 9. it would have changed everything.
- hammarby31

OK, now you have me curious.....

*edit*

OHHHH...yep...sorry I didn't make the connection for a moment.

When he was missing 1/4 of his team's games and the organization was dealing with HIS intrusive father. The diffeerence? they way the Avs organization dealt with it.
- bodiva88

The Avs also had another guy who was a superstar level player in Sakic, plus Roy, who was still in his prime in 1996

How much of the fanbase supports a team through the lean years?

I know that the Pens and Caps saw attendance drops during their lean years(pre-Crosby & Ovechkin). Hell, we've seen it in Philly with the Phillies and Sixers. I'm not one who will "forget" the years when the Phillies tried to sell us that a line up with Ricky Otero, Rico Brogna and Juan Bell was a major league team & the Vet was a home game for the Mets.

Assembling a team with high picks is not an exact science. Columbus has picked in the top 10 every year of their existence, but one. They have played 4 playoff games in 11 years. However, let's not pretend that the Jackets ever had a shot at a guy like Crosby or even Malkin.

I'm not accusing the Pens of tanking, but when the do suck, they have the absolute best timing in sports history.

But, I digress. When they were drafted, particularly Forsberg, neither he or Jagr was as sure fire a bet as Crosby or Malkin. In Jagr's case there was also the whole "fall of communism" angle, as well...Pens had the balls to do it and kudos to them.

The Flyers were fairly well supported during their lean years in the early 1990's, and even during the 2006-07 season, when the bottom fell out, the attendance was high. Because even during the lean years, there was always an effort to do as well as possible.

Fortunately for Flyers fans, the years the team has been run by Ed Snider, winning has been the primary goal.
- Jsaquella

It's always cute to have these deep dark conspiracy theories, but if we've learned anything in the past 20 years it is that it is impossible to keep a secret. Too many people need to know in order to do something underhanded and someone always can't resist telling either through spite or self interest.