Does anybody find it a little entertaining that the flyers fans and coach are complaining about crap that their team has been doing for almost as long as I've been alive. Year after year I watched the Pens get the sh*t beat out of them in front of their drooling, blood thirsty fans. Now, tables turned a little and the tears are flowing. Entertaining!
- madmike71

Have been saying this since the first sign of female doging has occurred by their fan base. Pretty funny, I agree.

For the record, any non-tourist knows that Geno's isn't the best cheesesteak. I know you wanted to use that to go along with your story, but come on now.
- broadstreetbully12

Tony Lukes is hands down the best steak in Philly, although there is no shortage of contenders.

Pens Fans (or at least some of you): Stop worrying about what the announcers say and think. Not everyone has to praise your players and team 100% of the time. It seems like you guys (blogger included) get rankled pretty easily by any criticism of the Pens. You have a great team - go forth and enjoy!

This should be an absolutely awesome series and will be the centerpiece of the first round.

I actually had a conversation with a Flyer fan that the Flyer Cup winning teams had a malicious misconception - his words - about them. Seriously, you can't make this stuff up.

Lets not forget this is a team that has Rinaldo on it and at other times during the year Shelley and Sestito on the team but a line that consists of Vitale, Asham, and Adams are the ones that are considered goons by their fans.
- acdc1206

This is why I think the Flyer fans are the most retarded fans in all of hockey.

This is why I think the Flyer fans are the most retarded fans in all of hockey.
- Oneonta Penguin

I love that Joe Vitale is considered a goon. All 5'11, 205lbs and 51PIM's.

Tony Lukes is hands down the best steak in Philly, although there is no shortage of contenders.

Pens Fans (or at least some of you): Stop worrying about what the announcers say and think. Not everyone has to praise your players and team 100% of the time. It seems like you guys (blogger included) get rankled pretty easily by any criticism of the Pens. You have a great team - go forth and enjoy!

This should be an absolutely awesome series and will be the centerpiece of the first round.
- BOSS_TWEED

I don't think anybody is rankled by criticism. I'd say we're a bit stunned by the reaction of the flyers fans......and especially the coach. I mean, the Flyers (and fans) wear the tough persona on their sleeves as long as I can remember, yet the tables got turned a little yesterday and the reaction is absurd......go read your board. The Pens are no choir boys, but c'mon, the flyers have been beating the snot out of teams for as long as I've been alive. To over-react to the ending of the game is laughable.....it wouldn't be that big a deal if the coach didn't make an ass out of himself. I'll admit, there are a rational minority on your board that understands it was no big deal. You sound rational too.....good luck....just not the next couple of weeks.

I disagree but to each their own. If somebody wants to run Crosby or Malkin they can do it in 2 minutes of ice time or 22 minutes. Just don't see the reason to risk it if there is nothing to play for.
- canadianpenfan

I actually think it may be a mild game. No one will want to take the chance of injuring themselves or getting suspended.

Also, if you worry about getting run at you are always going to be second guessing yourself. Don't put yourself in those positions which they don't often (Except Letang recently). Don't skate through center ice with your head down against a rival. I understand some injuries will happen and are inevitable but sitting players make me think they are scared and thats not what you want your mindset to be going into the playoffs. Obviously this is all just my opinion.

Rinaldo and Sestito actually bring a skill set to the table. They're decent skaters and aren't too bad with the puck. They're there to provide sandpaper and grit and check the other team. If you had them on your team you'd like them too.
- broadstreetbully12

I don't think anybody is rankled by criticism. I'd say we're a bit stunned by the reaction of the flyers fans......and especially the coach. I mean, the Flyers (and fans) wear the tough persona on their sleeves as long as I can remember, yet the tables got turned a little yesterday and the reaction is absurd......go read your board. The Pens are no choir boys, but c'mon, the flyers have been beating the snot out of teams for as long as I've been alive. To over-react to the ending of the game is laughable.....it wouldn't be that big a deal if the coach didn't make an ass out of himself. I'll admit, there are a rational minority on your board that understands it was no big deal. You sound rational too.....good luck....just not the next couple of weeks.
- madmike71

I was more referring to the comments of McGuire & Edzo. Flyers fans, like any, can get carried away. I personally think Lavi overreacted to the situation a little. For what it's worth, he's a fiery guy and got caught up in the moment.

Lastly, it may be time to turn the page on the Flyers reputation as goons. While, yes, for a long time they used intimidation to gain an advantage, those days are long gone. Today, no teams (including the Flyers) can afford to have single purpose goons who can't play. Any Flyers fan will concede that signing Shelley was a mistake as he barely plays and will see next to no playoff icetime. Are the Flyers aggressive and physical, yes, as are many teams. It just isn't accurate to equate any Flyers team of the last 10 years (perhaps longer) with the 70s era Flyers teams. Alas, it is a reputation that's hard to shake.

Good luck as well! I can't wait for round 1!

I actually think it may be a mild game. No one will want to take the chance of injuring themselves or getting suspended.

Also, if you worry about getting run at you are always going to be second guessing yourself. Don't put yourself in those positions which they don't often (Except Letang recently). Don't skate through center ice with your head down against a rival. I understand some injuries will happen and are inevitable but sitting players make me think they are scared and thats not what you want your mindset to be going into the playoffs. Obviously this is all just my opinion.
- kgrpitt

I agree 100%. These grudge games almost always fail to live up to the hype. Of course I could be wrong but, in the last game of the reg. season, I wouldn't expect much more than the obligatory post-whistle stuff.

I love that Joe Vitale is considered a goon. All 5'11, 205lbs and 51PIM's.
- Ben37

Yes, how ironic...considering you Penguins fans think Rinaldo is a goon. All 5'11", 201lbs of him.

When a 4th line guy takes out one of the opposing team's best dmen and top forwards in the same game (with the latter happening after the game was decided & only a minute left), call it whatever you want but it does nothing for his reputation if you don't want to consider him a "goon." Bottom line.

Pretty sure Hac Rinaldo couldn't line up Crosby with a head on open ice hit if he had 10 tries to do it.

- rival22

I wouldn't be so sure...just ask Drew Doughty.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9WOqZnbmv8

Yes, how ironic...considering you Penguins fans think Rinaldo is a goon. All 5'11", 201lbs of him.

When a 4th line guy takes out one of the opposing team's best dmen and top forwards in the same game (with the latter happening after the game was decided & only a minute left), call it whatever you want but it does nothing for his reputation if you don't want to consider him a "goon." Bottom line.
- shonoff95

First off the word good is a compliment in my eyes. However comparing size has nothing to do with being a goon it's how you play the game. Vitale 65 games 51 PM's compared to Rinaldo's 63 games and 212 Pm's. He is more of a goon. I think he compares more to Asham even though again the Pens rarely fight this year. Asham 61 games 76 PM's

With that said I would LOVE to see Stevie Mac dress Saturday so I can enjoy watching a true goon.

- SuperHenderson13

I guess you don't watch many Flyers games other than the 5 against your team so far this year. Was it not Rinaldo who gloved the puck to his stick and put it on net for a Talbot deflection yesterday? The 4th line was great yesterday for us, RINALDO included.

First off the word good is a compliment in my eyes. However comparing size has nothing to do with being a goon it's how you play the game. Vitale 65 games 51 PM's compared to Rinaldo's 63 games and 212 Pm's. He is more of a goon. I think he compares more to Asham even though again the Pens rarely fight this year. Asham 61 games 76 PM's

With that said I would LOVE to see Stevie Mac dress Saturday so I can enjoy watching a true goon.
- lloyd095

PIMs aren't necessarily the be all, end all. It can depend on if a player's PIMs are made up of minors, majors, or misconducts. I believe Rinaldo is toward the top of the league in fighting majors, hence racking up his PIMs. If someone is a cheap shot artist, ala Matt Cooke or Sean Avery, they won't necessarily have the high PIM totals to say that they're a "goon" (because many times they won't man up & engage in a fight after delivering the cheap hit) but they rack up minor penalties for stupid cheap shots. Vitale's "hit" on Grossmann was a cheap shot as he stuck out his leg to get him, and the hit on Briere, while mostly clean (except for being a little high & coming up with the elbow at the end), was not a "hockey play" as he made no attempt at the puck before or after the hit...the intent there was simply to injure and nothing more. Call that whatever you like...goon, cheap shot artist, or greatest hockey player of all time...but don't pretend it didn't happen. Not you, in particular, just Pens fans in general.

As far as size not determining whether a player is a goon, I happen to agree with you. That's why I pointed it out to your fellow Pens fan who said he thought it was funny Vitale was being called a goon and then referenced his size. I was trying to show him the fallacy in his "logic."

I also agree with you that Rinaldo compares to Asham (although not as big size-wise)...Zac has no fear & will fight anyone in the league (just like Asham), has some skill to score goals (like Asham), and can inject energy & passion into the game through hits, agitating, or scoring an unexpected goal.

I guess you don't watch many Flyers games other than the 5 against your team so far this year. Was it not Rinaldo who gloved the puck to his stick and put it on net for a Talbot deflection yesterday? The 4th line was great yesterday for us, RINALDO included.
- broadstreetbully12

You beat me to it.

I think Lavy might consider that "gutless".
- TheRat14

Interesting that Lavy had no problems sending out Rinaldo in blowouts to Boston and the Rangers both in Philly this season after the game was well in hand for the other teams. He sure racked up the penalities. But I'm sure the reason was because he thought Rinaldo could score goals to get them back in the game.

PIMs aren't necessarily the be all, end all. It can depend on if a player's PIMs are made up of minors, majors, or misconducts. I believe Rinaldo is toward the top of the league in fighting majors, hence racking up his PIMs. If someone is a cheap shot artist, ala Matt Cooke or Sean Avery, they won't necessarily have the high PIM totals to say that they're a "goon" (because many times they won't man up & engage in a fight after delivering the cheap hit) but they rack up minor penalties for stupid cheap shots. Vitale's "hit" on Grossmann was a cheap shot as he stuck out his leg to get him, and the hit on Briere, while mostly clean (except for being a little high & coming up with the elbow at the end), was not a "hockey play" as he made no attempt at the puck before or after the hit...the intent there was simply to injure and nothing more. Call that whatever you like...goon, cheap shot artist, or greatest hockey player of all time...but don't pretend it didn't happen. Not you, in particular, just Pens fans in general.

As far as size not determining whether a player is a goon, I happen to agree with you. That's why I pointed it out to your fellow Pens fan who said he thought it was funny Vitale was being called a goon and then referenced his size. I was trying to show him the fallacy in his "logic."

I also agree with you that Rinaldo compares to Asham (although not as big size-wise)...Zac has no fear & will fight anyone in the league (just like Asham), has some skill to score goals (like Asham), and can inject energy & passion into the game through hits, agitating, or scoring an unexpected goal.
- shonoff95

The hit on Grossman was leg to leg no doubt but I think the hit on Brierre was completely clean. I said it before that Brierre looked like he didn't know the situation out there. He has to know the game was getting nasty and cheap shots were being given by both teams. However he goes up the middle with his head down and against the 4th line. We will never know Vitale's thoughts but I believe at that point in the game you want to send a message for the next game and he did. It was clean and in his chest .

Asham is 5 11" 205lbs which I believe the same size as Rinaldo. Not that it matters. I would say neither of these teams carry the 5-6 guys that would really keep the fighting going anymore.

Rinaldo and Sestito actually bring a skill set to the table. They're decent skaters and aren't too bad with the puck. They're there to provide sandpaper and grit and check the other team. If you had them on your team you'd like them too.
- broadstreetbully12

Are all Flyer fans as delusional like this? Unreal. Your and my definition of skill are way off. I know a lot of skilled players like Rinaldo who play 7 minutes a game with over 200 PIMs. Every team needs skill like that.

One assist for Sestito. The sky is the limit for him and maybe he can someday actually play ten minutes a game.

PIMs aren't necessarily the be all, end all. It can depend on if a player's PIMs are made up of minors, majors, or misconducts. I believe Rinaldo is toward the top of the league in fighting majors, hence racking up his PIMs. If someone is a cheap shot artist, ala Matt Cooke or Sean Avery, they won't necessarily have the high PIM totals to say that they're a "goon" (because many times they won't man up & engage in a fight after delivering the cheap hit) but they rack up minor penalties for stupid cheap shots. Vitale's "hit" on Grossmann was a cheap shot as he stuck out his leg to get him, and the hit on Briere, while mostly clean (except for being a little high & coming up with the elbow at the end), was not a "hockey play" as he made no attempt at the puck before or after the hit...the intent there was simply to injure and nothing more. Call that whatever you like...goon, cheap shot artist, or greatest hockey player of all time...but don't pretend it didn't happen. Not you, in particular, just Pens fans in general.

As far as size not determining whether a player is a goon, I happen to agree with you. That's why I pointed it out to your fellow Pens fan who said he thought it was funny Vitale was being called a goon and then referenced his size. I was trying to show him the fallacy in his "logic."

I also agree with you that Rinaldo compares to Asham (although not as big size-wise)...Zac has no fear & will fight anyone in the league (just like Asham), has some skill to score goals (like Asham), and can inject energy & passion into the game through hits, agitating, or scoring an unexpected goal.
- shonoff95

IF the intent was to injure then he would have stuck out an elbow or gone low. He didn't. It was not a "mostly" clean hit. It was a completely clean hit but some of you guys can't admit that because then you would look bad over arguing over what everyone agrees was a LEGAL hit. Why don't you Flyer fans understand this? Too act like a Flyer wouldn't have done the exact same thing with a jolting hit is a complete joke. It's hard to go after the puck after that hit when the Flyers started their retaliation which I had no problem with.

The hit on Grossman was leg to leg no doubt but I think the hit on Brierre was completely clean. I said it before that Brierre looked like he didn't know the situation out there. He has to know the game was getting nasty and cheap shots were being given by both teams. However he goes up the middle with his head down and against the 4th line. We will never know Vitale's thoughts but I believe at that point in the game you want to send a message for the next game and he did. It was clean and in his chest .

Asham is 5 11" 205lbs which I believe the same size as Rinaldo. Not that it matters. I would say neither of these teams carry the 5-6 guys that would really keep the fighting going anymore.
- lloyd095

We might differ on the "completely clean" part. From the replay, it looked like Briere was losing the handle on the puck a little bit and looked down to try to corral it. Personally, I don't have as much of a problem with the hit itself (by Vitale on Briere) as I do with Blysma's decision to send out the 4th line against the Briere line when Dan had the last change as the home team. If Lavs threw out Rinaldo & Co, then sure I could see Dan's response to that being justified by putting that line out there...but doing that against Briere, the smallest player on the team?! You might hate to admit it, but it looks like Lavs was dead on with his "gutless" call on that.

You have to remember that it wasn't even just that one play isolated by itself...it was all the cheap shots Malkin took on Giroux (punching him in the back of the head while G was face-down on the ice), Malkin swinging at & punching Couturier, Malkin spearing Bourdon while he was down on the ice hurt after blocking a shot, Crosby continually slashing Giroux after face-offs (including 1 where he knocked G's stick out of his hand and another slash where Sid broke his own stick)...and yet not a single one of those incidents were called penalties and they got away with it every time. Then Crosby hits Schenn away from the play (without the puck anywhere close) and when Schenn retaliates with the cross-check, Crosby falls to the ice like he got shot by a 12-gauge at point blank range and then cries about it after the game. Listen, dude...if you want to dish it out, then you have to be willing to take it, too. It goes both ways. (The Crosby-Schenn exchange can be seen pretty well in this clip from TSN: http://watch.tsn.ca/featured/clip649203#clip649203 )

So all that to say that all those incidents were leading up to the Vitale hit on Briere. And let's be honest...Vitale had been running people all game and after Vitale's knee-on-knee hit to take out arguably our best dman, both the decision to send him out on the ice with a minute left in a 6-3 game as well as the hit itself look suspect. And I'm not really sure what kind of "message" it sends by going after the smallest player on the opposing team, anyway. I know the Pens were probably frustrated & pissed off that they blew another multi-goal lead to the Flyers after doing the same thing a couple weeks ago, but that doesn't necessarily excuse someone's actions under the guise of "sending a message."

the hit on Briere, while mostly clean (except for being a little high & coming up with the elbow at the end), was not a "hockey play" as he made no attempt at the puck before or after the hit...the intent there was simply to injure and nothing more. Call that whatever you like...goon, cheap shot artist, or greatest hockey player of all time...but don't pretend it didn't happen. Not you, in particular, just Pens fans in general.

- shonoff95

If that was a dirty hit, then I am done with hockey.

It's shoulder to chest, no elbow at all, it's not late and the only reason that it seems like Briere loses the puck is that he attempts to bail out from the hit.

You learn at the age of 10, to not cut into the middle with your head down, because someone will (frank)ing destroy you.

IF the intent was to injure then he would have stuck out an elbow or gone low. He didn't. It was not a "mostly" clean hit. It was a completely clean hit but some of you guys can't admit that because then you would look bad over arguing over what everyone agrees was a LEGAL hit. Why don't you Flyer fans understand this? Too act like a Flyer wouldn't have done the exact same thing with a jolting hit is a complete joke. It's hard to go after the puck after that hit when the Flyers started their retaliation which I had no problem with.
- acdc1206

I actually explained why I feel like it was only a "mostly" clean hit (as opposed to a "completely" clean hit)...I guess your reading comprehension needs some work. Feel free to disagree, but don't act like there's only 1 way to see things. That's being a homer, which it sounds like you're accusing others (including me) of being.

As a sidenote, no it's not that hard to try to make a play for the puck either before or after a hit. That's the point of hockey. Separating a man from the puck only does your team any good if your team gets possession, haha. And yeah, Vitale wouldn't even man up and take on someone when called on the carpet. He let Asham fight his battle for him. Btw, how Asham didn't get thrown out of the game after his first tussle and was somehow still on the ice to start crap with Rinaldo is still a mystery. I actually liked Asham when he was a Flyer (I still like him now) and I was bummed when he left, I'm just saying that the refs did a terrible job of handling that situation. Well, they did a terrible job most of the game, including the brawl at the end.

If that was a dirty hit, then I am done with hockey.

- Ben37

Many people have said that same thing to themselves all season long when Shanahan has suspended a player for a hit they deemed to be clean. I'm not implying that there is suppplemental discipline on tap for Vitale's hit on Briere (I don't think there will be), I'm simply saying that countless people have had that same sentiment regarding many hits over the course of this season.

Rather amusing how many times the regulars have fled for the hills lately when these board brawls start.