It's not a matter of any one player getting paid too much as it is we have 4 million dollar players on the 3rd pairing when the D is healthy... You need guys making 600k-1.5 million on the 3rd pairing that can do a similiar job.


As for Carle.. I wasn't bashing him... I said he is a good player, just not elite at anything, which would want me to over pay for him, and I think anything over 5 million is over-payment. Anything over 5 million and I would rather spend the extra 1.5-2 on someone like Suter.
- RooNosHockey

So you don't think his positional play and puck moving are important?

If we go by name then they need to land Suter. I'm thinking that Homer is going to deal for a defenseman this offseason if he decides to move on from Carle.
- stveshdy

This. And I think it will be best for the team too. Too much talent jam packed up front, and not enough Star power on defense without Pronger, and with Older Timonen...

The Flyers are going to go outside of the Organization to replace Carle if they don't retain him.
- MJL

Watson told me on Sunday that Pronger said he will play next year. Take it for what is worth. Seems like high hopes to me, but that's what he said.

Watson told me on Sunday that Pronger said he will play next year. Take it for what is worth. Seems like high hopes to me, but that's what he said.
- funmaster18

I've always said he will give it one more go. He has too. He didn't get as far as he did playing the brand of hockey he plays without having a certain mentality. Guys like him will fight to the bitter end before they through in the towel.

That said I completely believe what you are telling us about that. Isn't he suppossed to see a doctor this week in Pittsburgh? If for some reason he starts skating after seeing this doctor the local media is going to have a field day and you can't tell me anyone won't be a little hopeful!
I can only imagine how having him back in the saddle would impact this team!

Thats correct, but the price between these top players and guys like Carle isn't far apart these days.... When the best D-man in the league is only making 1.5 million more then what Carle is asking for... You have to think long and hard about giving that to Carle. IMO you can sign both Kubina and Grossman for what you pay for Carle and the Defense would be better for it.
- RooNosHockey

The top NHL defenseman in the League are making far more then 6.5M. I'd be happy to share the facts on the salaries of the top NHL defenseman. And I'll start with the fact that players care about their salaries and negotiate their salary, not their Cap hit. And we can also discuss the structure of some of the deals of the top NHL defenseman and what makes thier Cap hits lower.

I've always said he will give it one more go. He has too. He didn't get as far as he did playing the brand of hockey he plays without having a certain mentality. Guys like him will fight to the bitter end before they through in the towel.

That said I completely believe what you are telling us about that. Isn't he suppossed to see a doctor this week in Pittsburgh? If for some reason he starts skating after seeing this doctor the local media is going to have a field day and you can't tell me anyone won't be a little hopeful!
I can only imagine how having him back in the saddle would impact this team!
- JoeRussomanno

I so called this last week.

So your own UFA's shouldn't get market value to resign? What is that based on?

I've already proven with facts that Carle is absolutely a threat offensively from the point. In fact Carle is one of the top offensive defenseman in scoring at ES in the NHL.And again, I'll ask what would those players get if they were upcoming UFA's such as Carle is this off season? Would 5M a year start a conversation with the agent for Chara, Weber, etc?




5M isn't top money. And I disagree. If your a smart team you absolutely pay players like Carle what they are worth.
- MJL

Thats great if your running a Sim team... He will rerate well. All it proves to me is he plays with the top scoring team in the league, and he touches the puck before someone else scores... Again, I'm not saying Carle is a bad player... but he is NOT an offensive THREAT. A threat is someone that is going to make a pay most others can not... Giroux is a threat. Jagr is a threat. Karlson is a threat. When they have the puck, you have to WORRY there is going to be a goal... Carle isnt one of those players... He is sound. He is a good puck mover, and he helps this team offensively with his passes, but he is not an offensive THREAT.

Watson told me on Sunday that Pronger said he will play next year. Take it for what is worth. Seems like high hopes to me, but that's what he said.
- funmaster18

on the half full note, i would imagine that he might be making baby steps but they are not going to tell anyone and they shouldn't.

if i were to choose to pay Carle or Grossmann, i'm choosing Grossmann. you need a some cheap players a long with your high end players.

Jagr, i agree, the same salary or slightly less anything more...no thanks.

Waive Shelley and few others will be coming off the books.

The top NHL defenseman in the League are making far more then 6.5M. I'd be happy to share the facts on the salaries of the top NHL defenseman. And I'll start with the fact that players care about their salaries and negotiate their salary, not their Cap hit. And we can also discuss the structure of some of the deals of the top NHL defenseman and what makes thier Cap hits lower.
- MJL

Salaries are (frank)ed up right now. If Ville Leino can get that much money, do you really think salaries are accurate based on performance?

Check out Simon Gagne's OT winner in Game 4 in 2010, and then Giroux's overtime goal in Game 4.

I rest my case.

I've always said he will give it one more go. He has too. He didn't get as far as he did playing the brand of hockey he plays without having a certain mentality. Guys like him will fight to the bitter end before they through in the towel.

That said I completely believe what you are telling us about that. Isn't he suppossed to see a doctor this week in Pittsburgh? If for some reason he starts skating after seeing this doctor the local media is going to have a field day and you can't tell me anyone won't be a little hopeful!
I can only imagine how having him back in the saddle would impact this team!
- JoeRussomanno

Yep he is. I hope he gets good news, in any form. Whether or not he can play, I still want to see him recover enough to live normally.

So you don't think his positional play and puck moving are important?
- JoeRussomanno

Where did I say that... Are you missing the part where I say he is a good player? Just not particularly great at anything.... He is still a good defenseman to have, but I'm not over-paying for him...

Thats correct, but the price between these top players and guys like Carle isn't far apart these days.... When the best D-man in the league is only making 1.5 million more then what Carle is asking for... You have to think long and hard about giving that to Carle. IMO you can sign both Kubina and Grossman for what you pay for Carle and the Defense would be better for it.
- RooNosHockey

Personally, I'm not making much of an endeavor do get Kubina signed. He's a good option for what he is, but I'd be more willing to let him walk than Carle. Grossmann's a guy I'd be making an effort to keep in orange and black. If both Carle and Grossmann are re-signed, and we explore the trade avenue for a top defenseman, that frees the Flyers to include Meszaros or Coburn in the package (as whoever is trading will need a top 4 defenseman their way, I imagine).

Where did I say that... Are you missing the part where I say he is a good player? Just not particularly great at anything.... He is still a good defenseman to have, but I'm not over-paying for him...
- RooNosHockey

What is overpaying for Carle 5.5M-6M?

Where did I say that... Are you missing the part where I say he is a good player? Just not particularly great at anything.... He is still a good defenseman to have, but I'm not over-paying for him...
- RooNosHockey

I think your perspective on overpayment is a little off though. 5-5.5 million wouldn't be a bad deal, imo.

for what it's worth

you have
Mez
Pronger
Kimmo
Lilja
Gus


UFA
Grossmann
Kubina
Carle


out of the UFA's, who do you keep...

my vote would be Grossmann first, then Kubina (could sign for cheap), then Carle...

Thats great if your running a Sim team... He will rerate well. All it proves to me is he plays with the top scoring team in the league, and he touches the puck before someone else scores... Again, I'm not saying Carle is a bad player... but he is NOT an offensive THREAT. A threat is someone that is going to make a pay most others can not... Giroux is a threat. Jagr is a threat. Karlson is a threat. When they have the puck, you have to WORRY there is going to be a goal... Carle isnt one of those players... He is sound. He is a good puck mover, and he helps this team offensively with his passes, but he is not an offensive THREAT.
- RooNosHockey

What is a sim team? If what you say is true, why don't the Flyers just put anyone in that spot, play him 22 minutes a game, and have him just touch the puck before someone else scores and he'll produce the same as Carle does. Are you really offering this?

Carle is in the top 15 in the NHL in assists among defenseman. He is absolutely a threat offensively. Without the puck movement and playmaking he brings to the ice, the Flyers aren't as good offensively. There is a reason he plays the most out of any Flyer.

The top NHL defenseman in the League are making far more then 6.5M. I'd be happy to share the facts on the salaries of the top NHL defenseman. And I'll start with the fact that players care about their salaries and negotiate their salary, not their Cap hit. And we can also discuss the structure of some of the deals of the top NHL defenseman and what makes thier Cap hits lower.
- MJL

IMO Chara is the top D-man in the league.. You said he makes 7 million. If Carle wants 5.5 million that is 1.5 million less then Chara... the best D-man... I dont care how you structure a cap salary for cap hit... All I care about, and all the Flyers should care about is getting Carle for 5 million cap hit or less... I dont care how you structure it to do it...

I can't get over how short of a stick guys use nowadays. I bet this thing barely comes up to Simmer's waist.

Where did I say that... Are you missing the part where I say he is a good player? Just not particularly great at anything.... He is still a good defenseman to have, but I'm not over-paying for him...
- RooNosHockey

Its not really what you are saying its what I am inferring I suppose from you saying he doesn't excel at anything. I think that's an exaggeration.

Salaries are (frank)ed up right now. If Ville Leino can get that much money, do you really think salaries are accurate based on performance?

Check out Simon Gagne's OT winner in Game 4 in 2010, and then Giroux's overtime goal in Game 4.

I rest my case.
- KGBflyers10

NHL Salaries are based on market value. I don't see what those goals scored has anything to do with this.

Watson told me on Sunday that Pronger said he will play next year. Take it for what is worth. Seems like high hopes to me, but that's what he said.
- funmaster18

With or without a visor?

for what it's worth

you have
Mez
Pronger
Kimmo
Lilja
Gus


UFA
Grossmann
Kubina
Carle


out of the UFA's, who do you keep...

my vote would be Grossmann first, then Kubina (could sign for cheap), then Carle...
- phi1671

Kubina hast blown me away, just filled a need we lacked. Don't mind if he's not here next year, but Grossman, followed by Carle would be my priorities. I don't mind if they look to replace Carle, just don't want to see them let him walk and not fill that void.

With or without a visor?
- rockychocbill

IMO Chara is the top D-man in the league.. You said he makes 7 million. If Carle wants 5.5 million that is 1.5 million less then Chara... the best D-man... I dont care how you structure a cap salary for cap hit... All I care about, and all the Flyers should care about is getting Carle for 5 million cap hit or less... I dont care how you structure it to do it...
- RooNosHockey

Chara's salary this Season is 8.5M. There are 12 NHL defenseman who make 6.5M a year or better. There are 9 NHL defenseman who make 7M or more. The top paid NHL defenseman this year makes 10M.

So your premise that Carle would be making close to what the top NHL defensman make is incorrect.

What is a sim team? If what you say is true, why don't the Flyers just put anyone in that spot, play him 22 minutes a game, and have him just touch the puck before someone else scores and he'll produce the same as Carle does. Are you really offering this?

Carle is in the top 15 in the NHL in assists among defenseman. He is absolutely a threat offensively. Without the puck movement and playmaking he brings to the ice, the Flyers aren't as good offensively. There is a reason he plays the most out of any Flyer.
- MJL

Yea, Prongers hurt and Timonen is getting old... Again I will say it... Carle is a good puck mover. But to say he is a Threat is like saying Lieno is a Threat because he can move the puck... But I'm done trying to argue the difference here.. You obviously have a pitched tent for Carle and your not seeing the fact I am calling carle for what he is.