Carle's not exactly my favorite player on the Flyers, but given his age, he isn't getting paid like those guys, so he isn't expected to be "in the same breath" as the players you're mentioning. All those younger guys mentioned (Karlsson, Peitriangelo, etc) are going to get monster contracts and make way more money than what Carle will sign for.
- eayost

Chris Pronger, a cup winner, captain, and top 5 defensemen when he signed with the Flyers has less then a 5 million cap hit... If you can give Carle a 6 year deal with a limited NTC front loaded with a cap hit below 5 million... Do it. No NMC, and no full NTC.... Front load it to lower the cap hit. I would be okay with this...

I knew this was coming.... and I'm not going to argue numbers, because numbers can be mis-leading... Can you say that Carle is in the same breath of players like Letang, Buff, Karlson, Weber, Doughty, Johnson, Green (injured year), Streit, Lidstrom and Peitriangelo offensively? Can you say he is as good a Weber, Chara, Phaneauf, Keith, or Myers defensively?
- RooNosHockey

Numbers aren't misleading at all. They speak the truth. There are some player on your list that Carle is certainly as good as an overall player. Carle is not in the class of players like Letang, Lidstrom,Chara, Keith, Weber, or Doughty. Or near as good offensively as a player such as Karlsson. Then again no other NHL defenseman is either. NO one including myself has ever said that he was.

None of what you offer here supports the opinion you gave on Carle as a player.

I'm not saying Carle sux like some people, but he is not a number 1 d-man, or a game changer. He is a solid defenseman. Someone you dont want to lose, but I would rather lose him then overpay. If anyone thinks this defense will be okay when Timonen retires and Carle is a number 1 then.... hmm. I would rather let Carle go if wants a penny over 5 million when you can spend somewhere in the ballpark for 6.5 for Suter.
- RooNosHockey

I don't think signing Carle at $5m says he's a "#1 defenseman" (even if they sign him at the $5.5m I expect, it still doesn't say that to me). To me, that looks more like locking up your #2 defenseman and continuing the search for that top guy.

As for Suter, I have a lot of doubts about him being the focus of the Flyers gameplan:
-While Suter may be better than any defenseman the Flyers have, is he really a #1 defenseman, or just a better #2 than Carle?
-I don't think we'd get Suter at $6.5m, no way. If we're getting him, I feel the cap hit will end up being $7m minimum. The market for solid defensemen will be rough.
-Will Suter actually be available? I think he was being sincere when saying him re-signing with Nashville depends on their ability to compete, and I think they stand to go deep this postseason.

I don't think signing Carle at $5m says he's a "#1 defenseman" (even if they sign him at the $5.5m I expect, it still doesn't say that to me). To me, that looks more like locking up your #2 defenseman and continuing the search for that top guy.

As for Suter, I have a lot of doubts about him being the focus of the Flyers gameplan:
-While Suter may be better than any defenseman the Flyers have, is he really a #1 defenseman, or just a better #2 than Carle?
-I don't think we'd get Suter at $6.5m, no way. If we're getting him, I feel the cap hit will end up being $7m minimum. The market for solid defensemen will be rough.
-Will Suter actually be available? I think he was being sincere when saying him re-signing with Nashville depends on their ability to compete, and I think they stand to go deep this postseason.
- BulliesPhan87

Do you think the Flyers are willing to spend more money on Carle than they did with Coburn? I think if the Flyers and Carle were close on figures he would be signed to an extension. My only guess is that Homer is going to see if he can upgrade (maybe Suter) and then go from there. However, he runs the risk of losing Carle to another team. Very difficult situation for the GM here.

Numbers aren't misleading at all. They speak the truth. There are some player on your list that Carle is certainly as good as an overall player. Carle is not in the class of players like Letang, Lidstrom,Chara, Keith, Weber, or Doughty. Or near as good offensively as a player such as Karlsson. Then again no other NHL defenseman is either. NO one including myself has ever said that he was.

None of what you offer here supports the opinion you gave on Carle as a player.
- MJL

Sure it does. I said Carle is a nice player, but he isn't an offensive threat like the players I listed. And he isn't a threat at the big hit like others I listed. He is a nice player, but he is not anywhere near the top offensive or defensive skilled d-man in the legaue... I would put him around the top of the tier 2 guys though... Like the Hamhuis', Beiskas, Volchenkovs, etc... Carle is a good 2nd tier guy, but paying him anywhere above 5 million would be paying him like a top tier guy...

Its about match-ups, and when healthy our team's 2-4 lines are better then other teams 2-4 lines... As long as our 2-4 lines outscore their 2-4 lines we should be fine...
- RooNosHockey

Not now they aren't. Crosby is on the 3rd line usually, and well, any line that Crosby is on is a top line in the NHL. The Stepan line (2nd line) has been good all year. I would say those two lines are significantly better than any of our 2-4 lines right now.

Not now they aren't. Crosby is on the 3rd line usually, and well, any line that Crosby is on is a top line in the NHL. The Stepan line (2nd line) has been good all year. I would say those two lines are significantly better than any of our 2-4 lines right now.
- PT21

I'll give you Pittsburghs centers are crazy deep, but thier wingers are marginal at best... Asham...

And the Rangers secondary scoring is just awful.

We have a lot of guys going through slumps, but it cant stay that way too long...

Chris Pronger, a cup winner, captain, and top 5 defensemen when he signed with the Flyers has less then a 5 million cap hit... If you can give Carle a 6 year deal with a limited NTC front loaded with a cap hit below 5 million... Do it. No NMC, and no full NTC.... Front load it to lower the cap hit. I would be okay with this...
- RooNosHockey

The cap goes up every year, so 5 million now isn't what 5 million was when they signed Pronger. Pronger was also over 35 when he signed his deal and towards the end of his career Carle is in his prime.

Not now they aren't. Crosby is on the 3rd line usually, and well, any line that Crosby is on is a top line in the NHL. The Stepan line (2nd line) has been good all year. I would say those two lines are significantly better than any of our 2-4 lines right now.
- PT21

The flyers can beat any team in the beat if they bring their A game.

Last night aside, has anyone brought up the fact that Carle hasn't scored a goal in 40+ straight games, while routinely getting the most ice time amongst defenseman, as well as a good amount of PP time. Has anyone brought up the fact he missed a wide open net in the Washington game on a great feed from Giroux, while in the same game getting his shot blocked once again, that led to him having to haul a guy down leading to a penalty shot.... I guess all those facts are getting swept under the carpet.

Whatever, only a handful of regular season games to go, plus playoffs before he is gone. When Holmgren locked up Coburn it showed where his priorities were.

Do you think the Flyers are willing to spend more money on Carle than they did with Coburn? I think if the Flyers and Carle were close on figures he would be signed to an extension. My only guess is that Homer is going to see if he can upgrade (maybe Suter) and then go from there. However, he runs the risk of losing Carle to another team. Very difficult situation for the GM here.
- stveshdy

It's a big decision for the GM and the player. I mean, the Flyers have an opportunity to replace Carle here. Likewise, Carle does have the option to go elsewhere if he wishes. Neither side needs to give up that freedom of opportunity yet, so I'm not surprised they're not running to the bargaining table.

Holmgren has a lot of work to do on the defense corps in the coming seasons. It's a tough position to keep well stocked. It'll be very interesting to see how he does it.

Sure it does. I said Carle is a nice player, but he isn't an offensive threat like the players I listed. And he isn't a threat at the big hit like others I listed. He is a nice player, but he is not anywhere near the top offensive or defensive skilled d-man in the legaue... I would put him around the top of the tier 2 guys though... Like the Hamhuis', Beiskas, Volchenkovs, etc... Carle is a good 2nd tier guy, but paying him anywhere above 5 million would be paying him like a top tier guy...
- RooNosHockey

No it doesn't. What you offered as a rebuttal is that Carle isn't as good as some of the top echelon, Norris Trophy level defenseman such as Weber, Chara, and arguably the best NHL defenseman of all time in Lidstrom. No kidding. Who has said anywhere in any opinion offered that Carle is on that level?

Just as I did in bringing the facts as far as what Carle brings to the team. I guess I now have to brings the facts as far as the NHL Salary structure and what top NHL defenseman such as Chara, Weber, Doughty, and Keith make.

And also ask what would those players be paid this off season if they were upcoming UFA's such as Carle is?

Last night aside, has anyone brought up the fact that Carle hasn't scored a goal in 40+ straight games, while routinely getting the most ice time amongst defenseman, as well as a good amount of PP time. Has anyone brought up the fact he missed a wide open net in the Washington game on a great feed from Giroux, while in the same game getting his shot blocked once again, that led to him having to haul a guy down leading to a penalty shot.... I guess all those facts are getting swept under the carpet.

Whatever, only a handful of regular season games to go, plus playoffs before he is gone. When Holmgren locked up Coburn it showed where his priorities were.
- PLindbergh31

I actually believe that Grossmann is probably the most important defenseman to sign after the season is over. Thats just my opinion. I think Carle has played well but like any defenseman he has his flaws. I just think the Flyers need a big guy who can be physical in his own end like Grossmann.

absolutely. just stating that was Briere's turnover because he stated it was Carle's
- nastyflyergirl

And the reason why Briere, for some reason, was the last man back when the puck was turned over? Carle's drop-pass and subsequent advancing beyond the puck maybe had something to do with that...

Gotta put some responsibility for that on the coaching staff too... putting Briere and Carle on the ice at the same time against a team like Tampa is just asking for trouble.

And the reason why Briere, for some reason, was the last man back when the puck was turned over? Carle's drop-pass and subsequent advancing beyond the puck maybe had something to do with that...

Gotta put some responsibility for that on the coaching staff too... putting Briere and Carle on the ice at the same time against a team like Tampa is just asking for trouble.
- Tomahawk

um lol what?

edit: lavy to briere and matty: boys, i know you've been on the second pp unit all season, but mighty tampa and their stout pk are in the building tonight, so you are going to rotate in and out.

It's a big decision for the GM and the player. I mean, the Flyers have an opportunity to replace Carle here. Likewise, Carle does have the option to go elsewhere if he wishes. Neither side needs to give up that freedom of opportunity yet, so I'm not surprised they're not running to the bargaining table.

Holmgren has a lot of work to do on the defense corps in the coming seasons. It's a tough position to keep well stocked. It'll be very interesting to see how he does it.
- BulliesPhan87

Should be interesting. You wonder if Homer would be willing to move another forward to either trade for another defenseman or create more cap space for UFA defenseman.

Carle's a good puck mover, and a sound positional defenseman. He's also shown an ability to help "carry" a younger and more inexperinced defenseman as a partner and not have it hurt his game.

The thing that plagues Carle, and contributes to his reputation among fans is that when he does make a mistake, they can be glaring. But he's not mistake prone, nor is he a guy that consistently hurts the team.
- Jsaquella

He's a very good player, but when he fails, he tends to fail spectacularly.

With that said, they'd be wiser to lock up Grossmann before they even start thinking of throwing big money at Carle.

Last night aside, has anyone brought up the fact that Carle hasn't scored a goal in 40+ straight games, while routinely getting the most ice time amongst defenseman, as well as a good amount of PP time. Has anyone brought up the fact he missed a wide open net in the Washington game on a great feed from Giroux, while in the same game getting his shot blocked once again, that led to him having to haul a guy down leading to a penalty shot.... I guess all those facts are getting swept under the carpet.

Whatever, only a handful of regular season games to go, plus playoffs before he is gone. When Holmgren locked up Coburn it showed where his priorities were.
- PLindbergh31

This doesn't really make a lot of sense. What player doesn't make mistakes, take a penalty, or miss an open net. It's an 82 game Season. Are you really going to single out 2 plays in the course of a player who play's well over 20 minutes a game, and offer that as evidence as to why he isn't a good player? In order to fair and unbiased, don't you also have to mention the quality plays he makes game in and game out? Why is it that you never offer any praise or mention the quality plays that Carle makes game in and game out?

Who has ever offered that Carle is perfect as a player and is mistake free?


It's pretty well known that shooting the puck and goal scoring is a weakness of Carle's. If he didn't have a weakness, you wouldn't be able to get him for 5M this off season.
Again, don't you have to discuss all of the atributes of a player, and not just single out one of the weaknesses that he has?

He's a very good player, but when he fails, he tends to fail spectacularly.

With that said, they'd be wiser to lock up Grossmann before they even start thinking of throwing big money at Carle.
- Tomahawk

Two different players who bring different things to the ice. Both are valuable to the team in what they bring. What Carle brings to the ice is paramount to the Flyers success. If they don't retain him, they better replace him with a similar caliber or better player, or there will be a big hole in the backend for the Flyers.

And the reason why Briere, for some reason, was the last man back when the puck was turned over? Carle's drop-pass and subsequent advancing beyond the puck maybe had something to do with that...

Gotta put some responsibility for that on the coaching staff too... putting Briere and Carle on the ice at the same time against a team like Tampa is just asking for trouble.
- Tomahawk

How is putting Briere and Carle on the ice at the same time on the PP asking for trouble? They've been on the same PP unit for a while. That dropout breakout is by design, and instituted by the Coaching staff. It is high risk, and always has been. Carle is doing that because it is by design and not a choice he's making.

No it doesn't. What you offered as a rebuttal is that Carle isn't as good as some of the top echelon, Norris Trophy level defenseman such as Weber, Chara, and arguably the best NHL defenseman of all time in Lidstrom. No kidding. Who has said anywhere in any opinion offered that Carle is on that level?

Just as I did in bringing the facts as far as what Carle brings to the team. I guess I now have to brings the facts as far as the NHL Salary structure and what top NHL defenseman such as Chara, Weber, Doughty, and Keith make.

And also ask what would those players be paid this off season if they were upcoming UFA's such as Carle is?
- MJL

An important question. The cost of talented defensemen, including those very top ones, goes up every year. $5m-$5.5m more than likely won't buy you #1 defensive talent anymore, that'a price of the past. Hell, Chara makes almost $7m on the cap. What's Suter going to get this summer? What'll Weber get on the market (or Nashville, they won't escape his impending value if they can sign him). That five million dollar range just isn't top defenseman value in 2012.

um lol what?

edit: lavy to briere and matty: boys, i know you've been on the second pp unit all season, but mighty tampa and their stout pk are in the building tonight, so you are going to rotate in and out.
- OrangeBlack27

lol @ "mighty tampa and their stout pk".

I actually believe that Grossmann is probably the most important defenseman to sign after the season is over. Thats just my opinion. I think Carle has played well but like any defenseman he has his flaws. I just think the Flyers need a big guy who can be physical in his own end like Grossmann.
- stveshdy

Grossmann has his flaws also. What it comes down to it is what kind of player are you looking for.

So what's the deal on Bryz being possibly hurt and do we still think its a good idea to get him over 60 starts? Just curious....

How is putting Briere and Carle on the ice at the same time on the PP asking for trouble? They've been on the same PP unit for a while. That dropout breakout is by design, and instituted by the Coaching staff. It is high risk, and always has been. Carle is doing that because it is by design and not a choice he's making.
- MJL

Hard to say who would replace Carle. However it isnt impossilbe either. I never thought a guy like Grossmann would be able to play at this level for the Flyers. Whoever replaces Carle would need the opportunity before we just say that player cant replace him because of name.

I do agree that Carle's game can be underrated at times. I put it this way his production on the ice has more positives than negatives. He has a lot more good games then bad imo.