add in the fact that stay at home d-men dont generally hit their stride til their mid twenties (maturity thing.. not games played.. your perspective changes at you get older)
- Dozzer

You also need the proper mentoring to develop that skill. Wilson and his run-and-gun style did little to help Schenn, nor did Zettler who was barely passable as an NHL defenseman himself. Wilson had 4 years, and we've actually seen a decline in the skill and confidence of some of our players. Carlyle's been here for 8 games and can't do any better, therefore it's all Burke's fault. The only thing Burke was guilty of was not realizing sooner that Wilson was a poor fit here.

i disagree with the premise a top ten pick should equal a top tier player

to me, the higher the pick the better the odds of them becoming a full time nhl-er.. in any regard..

there are more top ten picks who dont reach this magical ceiling placed on them then there are guys who do reach it.. and thats fact.
- Dozzer

i disagree, they should be, or damn close, the progression or lack thereof determines this, no matter where they are drafted. But a top 10 pick should be a hell of a player and if he isnt, he was either over hyped or didnt progress the way that he should have, there is a certain amount of human error involved here, by the player themselves and the organization that drafts them.

I'm the obtuse one? You're looking at this team as a collection of names on a page, rather than human beings who are susceptible to the environment they work in. If you took a job, and had a horrible boss who negatively affected your ability to improve your work skills. Would you then agree that it was the company's fault for hiring you in the first plce. Furthermore, you'll never achieve any more under difference leadership? It would be a very sad world of employment if that were the case.
- p_zub

Yes. Wilson nor Carlyle built this team, Burke did. Therefor he created this mess.

- Pecafan Fan

BRAVO!!!!!!!!!!

Basically what we can take away from all of this is that sometimes people are right and more than sometimes people are wrong.

Stop acting holier than thou because you claim to have pegged Schenn a bust all along. Im sure there have been things in your mind that have been positives that you expected to be negatives.
- markmark

No no..I like Schenn..good kid...and a decent 5/6th dman.
I dont like this, he can do not wrong for the next 8 years cause he needs maturing etc, I dont like his contract.....he simply hasn't earned.

But I do like schenn.

Exactly! Was Ryan Suter a star when he was Schenn's age? He was a top 10 pick. Now he's hitting UFA and everyone wants him.


Gotta remember we were a playoff team all year until we hit the wall. Were going to make some changes and get rid of some of the deadweight. Carlyle will bring a more defensive approach, and Reimer, who will be only 24 by the way, should probably have a better 3rd season from it. Were not that far away, plus our pipeline is filling up with solid B level prospects. The Marlies are winning their division and we still have a whole another wave of players on the way. (Biggs,Percy,McKegg,Ross,Leivo,Top 8 pick this year)

Just have to keep preaching patience. Its frustrating I know, but we'll get there.
- t_leafs21

Suter has been a stud for a while.

No no..I like Schenn..good kid...and a decent 5/6th dman.
I dont like this, he can do not wrong for the next 8 years cause he needs maturing etc, I dont like his contract.....he simply hasn't earned.

But I do like schenn.
- Fakepartofme

Then, you must speak the company line and praise his greatness.


NOW!

Exactly! Was Ryan Suter a star when he was Schenn's age? He was a top 10 pick. Now he's hitting UFA and everyone wants him.


Gotta remember we were a playoff team all year until we hit the wall. Were going to make some changes and get rid of some of the deadweight. Carlyle will bring a more defensive approach, and Reimer, who will be only 24 by the way, should probably have a better 3rd season from it. Were not that far away, plus our pipeline is filling up with solid B level prospects. The Marlies are winning their division and we still have a whole another wave of players on the way. (Biggs,Percy,McKegg,Ross,Leivo,Top 5 pick this year)

Just have to keep preaching patience. Its frustrating I know, but we'll get there.
- t_leafs21

Fixed

You also need the proper mentoring to develop that skill. Wilson and his run-and-gun style did little to help Schenn, nor did Zettler who was barely passable as an NHL defenseman himself. Wilson had 4 years, and we've actually seen a decline in the skill and confidence of some of our players. Carlyle's been here for 8 games and can't do any better, therefore it's all Burke's fault. The only thing Burke was guilty of was not realizing sooner that Wilson was a poor fit here.
- p_zub

Correct on both points, well said. And he was guilty of over valuing the team in the 1st season or two as well.

Yes. Wilson nor Carlyle built this team, Burke did. Therefor he created this mess.
- Prolific_Scorer

So going forward evaluating ALL new coaches in the NHL, 8 games is the new standard to decide whether the players/GM were the problem or not?

*Shuffles*

well said.. and bang on.. some people just cant help but be negative.. its all they know.. i feel bad for them

anywone thinks this team is "burke's vision" is a fool.. burke's team wont be here for 2 or 3 more years
- Dozzer

Its just too bad Burke doesn't realize that.

And it is Burke's vision.....he's on record as saying this is my team now...the team he's put together.

Then, you must speak the company line and praise his greatness.


NOW!
- Pecafan Fan

Apparently.
People just dont like reality.....I blame TV.

Suter has been a stud for a while.
- Fakepartofme

not quite.. he didnt become consistant til he was 24.. when he was 23 he was a minus 16 playing on trap style team

mid twenties.. hits his stride... exactly what i have been saying.. stay at home d-men do not become consistant until they reach a certain point in their maturity.. games played have nothing to do with it

Its just too bad Burke doesn't realize that.

And it is Burke's vision.....he's on record as saying this is my team now...the team he's put together.
- Fakepartofme

and it is his team i wont deny.. but not his vision for the team

So going forward evaluating ALL new coaches in the NHL, 8 games is the new standard to decide whether the players/GM were the problem or not?
- p_zub

No, not at all, however it is what you want to take out of what i posted, please go ahead and do that.

Its just too bad Burke doesn't realize that.

And it is Burke's vision.....he's on record as saying this is my team now...the team he's put together.
- Fakepartofme

Doesnt that mean he himself created this mess? Who knew?

new blog

*Shuffles*
- AdamFrench

*Deals*

*Deals*
- noename09

*can see youre out of aces*

for taste of your whiskey, ill give you some advice.

Doesnt that mean he himself created this mess? Who knew?
- Prolific_Scorer

Of course he has to take some accountability for the situation. But not all.

If a director of an orchestra is doing fine but one of his Tuba players has a seizure while his trumpet player falls asleep (Schenn and Kulimen), he cant REALLLLLLY help that . Other parts are him holding his stick thing backwards and up his ass (Armstrong, Lombardi, Connolly)

Of course he has to take some accountability for the situation. But not all.

If a director of an orchestra is doing fine but one of his Tuba players has a seizure while his trumpet player falls asleep (Schenn and Kulimen), he cant REALLLLLLY help that . Other parts are him holding his stick thing backwards and up his ass (Armstrong, Lombardi, Connolly)
- markmark

Nice wording.

not quite.. he didnt become consistant til he was 24.. when he was 23 he was a minus 16 playing on trap style team

mid twenties.. hits his stride... exactly what i have been saying.. stay at home d-men do not become consistant until they reach a certain point in their maturity.. games played have nothing to do with it
- Dozzer

+/- really doesn't mean a damn thing.
For most of his career his been on a well coached , no talent team. Its only the past couple of years the Nashville has started to acquire talent. Suter was good dman pretty much his 2nd year on....of course he had ups and downs..but overall....he's been good.
I've watched the preds since their inception.

But if you think the +/- means something, than prior to 08/09 year he was a +7, +10, +3.

and it is his team i wont deny.. but not his vision for the team
- Dozzer

One in the same...he thought these players would become his vision.

As the kids say on here....epic fail.

But, he's only 3.5 years into rebuilding this team from the ground up.

i disagree, they should be, or damn close, the progression or lack thereof determines this, no matter where they are drafted. But a top 10 pick should be a hell of a player and if he isnt, he was either over hyped or didnt progress the way that he should have, there is a certain amount of human error involved here, by the player themselves and the organization that drafts them.
- Prolific_Scorer

Exactly.

Developing talent is key here.

All a top 10 pick is, a talented player that should be easier to develop.

If Kadri was in the Red Wings system he wouldn't even have played 1 game in the NHL yet.

This poop takes time. None of Burke and company's draft choices have, or should have even the slightest chance of making it yet.

Other than Kadri, only 1 pick make by Burke and Co has any NHL games. Jimmy Hayes, with Chicago. Traded to get Brad Ross.

patience and time is key here.