Actually, he is a very good passer/playmaker. But yes he is strictly an offensive player and possibly the softest player in the league getting pucks out, etc.
- Rang

That was included in what I meant be "scoring". That's why the "scoring leaders" counts goals + assists.

You really wouldn't trade Philip Kessel for Crosby? i'm assuming this is because of questions marks around his concussions?
- 1979AD

Exactly. I would sign Crosby as a UFA because the cap hit could come off with LTIR should he have problems and we lose no assets

But I'm pretty sure Leaf Nation knows that 2 days after Kessel is traded for Crosby that somebody will throw a waffle at ACC and hit Crosby in the head putting him out of hockey for good.

Isn't Hossa into his 30's? Not saying Kessel is better, but if we're talking now, most of those guys are near the end of their career, except Toews and Kane and Nash. Toews, hands down, Kane and Kessel? I think is a wash. Nash? same thing. You're not losing those trades but I don't think you're winning either.
- Boosinicka

I'll say it. Kessel is better than Hossa.

Stats, Contract and Birthdate.

Why. The numbers don't agree with you.

Stats, Contract and birthdate.
- leafs_wingp

It's Rick Nash. Did you watch the olympics? this guy is top 5 in the league I don't care what his numbers are. I know the same argument can be said for Kessel but Nash hasn't exactly played with elite talent either. Mark Letestu? C'mon

It's Rick Nash. Did you watch the olympics? this guy is top 5 in the league I don't care what his numbers are. I know the same argument can be said for Kessel but Nash hasn't exactly played with elite talent either. Mark Letestu? C'mon
- PootieTang

Why cant we have both

You've just made a complete fool out of yourself.

You would trade Kessel (who hasn't even entered his prime yet) for a guy who's on the decline of his career?

JFJ is that you?
- thomas81

I am sure he wouldnt at this point in Hossa Career... but I think the point is that Hossa is a better player overall. Probably by a decent margin

Wonder why more players don't take this option. They usually have to develop anyway at 18 so why not wait 2 years and choose your team.
- Rang

good question....anyone?
what is the precident with this stuff?
is wheeler the only other top end talent to do this?

Isn't Hossa into his 30's? Not saying Kessel is better, but if we're talking now, most of those guys are near the end of their career, except Toews and Kane and Nash. Toews, hands down, Kane and Kessel? I think is a wash. Nash? same thing. You're not losing those trades but I don't think you're winning either.
- Boosinicka

You're basing this on a different list (players Kessel has more points than). He originally posted the top scorers over the past 82 reg season games. That's the list I'm talking about.

You've just made a complete fool out of yourself.

You would trade Kessel (who hasn't even entered his prime yet) for a guy who's on the decline of his career?

JFJ is that you?
- thomas81

If we still had JFJ he would trade for Hossa when he hits 39 years old.

I never said build the team around him. I just said he makes players around him better when it was said he doesn't.

Look at Lupul's stats before his injury. I don't care what wing he plays on. That makes him one dimensional anyways. Kessel scored before Lupul came and he'll keep scoring long after Lupul leaves.

Kessel is 24 years old. He sneezes 30 goal seasons. Won't be 25 until the beginning of next season.

Many other roster spots available for bringing in a leader type that the team can be built around.
- leafs93

i believe Lupul had very good stats in his first year.. then he got bounced around a couple years and still maintained good stats.. he started to pick it up in philly again when he was traded yet again... to the ducks.. where he went down for a season and half with injury... which then lead him to toronto

the guy has been bounced around so much and i am gonna argue that this fact has more to do with him not elevating his play more than anything else

I'll say it. Kessel is better than Hossa.

Stats, Contract and Birthdate.
- leafs_wingp

I wouldn't trade Kessel for Hossa either.

He's almost 10 years older.

Hossa at 27 years old then yes, but my time machine is broken right now.
- leafs93

If we start bringing the "well if they were younger" then I could start increasing my list to Jagr, Selanne, Gretzky, Lemieux...

Stupid way of looking at it, which is why we are focussing on now, and no, right now I would not trade Kessel for Hossa.

I'll say it. Kessel is better than Hossa.

Stats, Contract and Birthdate.
- leafs_wingp

I'll give you birthdate only.

Why cant we have both
- Timeforsoup

This

It's Rick Nash. Did you watch the olympics? this guy is top 5 in the league I don't care what his numbers are. I know the same argument can be said for Kessel but Nash hasn't exactly played with elite talent either. Mark Letestu? C'mon
- PootieTang

Since 09-10 Kessel has outscored Nash.

Nash is no longer elite. Kessel is just entering his prime.

I agree in a way, Reimer is a ? IMO. So with that you are right that we have to address the Goaltender situation. However, can you list me the goalies that are better than Reimer that are available?

Burke is in a tough spot, but the new coach and system could address our goaltender problems for them. It's all very uncertain. What if we get another Raycroft/Toskala (Schnieder, Bernier, Lindback) great up and coming unproven goalies in a far superior system, or sign someone mediocre like Harding? Vokoun looks pretty awesome outside of Florida's system eh? Theodore is having an amazing year, let's trade for him!

All I'm saying is Reimer may or may not be the guy but he's closer than anything available plus he doesn't cost us anything if he returns to form.
- Boosinicka

I have no idea who Burke should bring in, Thats why hes a GM and I'm just a fan.

You're basing this on a different list (players Kessel has more points than). He originally posted the top scorers over the past 82 reg season games. That's the list I'm talking about.
- 1979AD

my bad

I'll give you birthdate only.
- 1979AD

I think you think that Tony Fernandez is still the starting SS for the Jays.

Hossa is the definition of a complimentary player, and is almost 10 years older than Kessel, so he should be better defensively.

Kessel is on pace to be better than Hossa at 33 years old.

Impossible to compare.

I'll say it. Kessel is better than Hossa.

Stats, Contract and Birthdate.
- leafs_wingp

well you got 2 out of 3 anyway. not even remotely close on the first one though when consider complete player. Hossa is the full package. If he was 25 I'd trade 2 Kessel's for him

EDIT : scratch that Hossa's contract is better also, since Kessel will be getting a raise next summer

i believe Lupul had very good stats in his first year.. then he got bounced around a couple years and still maintained good stats.. he started to pick it up in philly again when he was traded yet again... to the ducks.. where he went down for a season and half with injury... which then lead him to toronto

the guy has been bounced around so much and i am gonna argue that this fact has more to do with him not elevating his play more than anything else
- Dozzer

I don't want to say anything bad about Lupul but my main point was that Kessel has made him just as much as he has made Kessel this year.

The original point way back in the posts was that Kessel does make players around him better.

I think you think that Tony Fernandez is still the starting SS for the Jays.

Hossa is the definition of a complimentary player, and is almost 10 years older than Kessel, so he should be better defensively.

Kessel is on pace to be better than Hossa at 33 years old.

Impossible to compare.
- leafs_wingp

Apparently you think the scoresheet is the only thing that happens in a hockey game.

edit: great burn on the Fernandez comment btw

well you got 2 out of 3 anyway. not even remotely close on the first one though when consider complete player. Hossa is the full package. If he was 25 I'd trade 2 Kessel's for him
- Big_Lightnin

Not even remotely close on the 1st one?

Kessel has more points than Hossa since 09-10 up until now. It's fact.

Remember Hossa at 25? He wasn't a complete player. It's called maturity.

If we start bringing the "well if they were younger" then I could start increasing my list to Jagr, Selanne, Gretzky, Lemieux...

Stupid way of looking at it, which is why we are focussing on now, and no, right now I would not trade Kessel for Hossa.
- mfreedman

Don't forget Rocket Richard, Stan Mikita, Gordie Howe.........

My point was not to trade Kessel for Hossa, the rest was peanut gallery humor in an attempt to say that it would have to be for a guy like Hossa but much younger.

Since 09-10 Kessel has outscored Nash.

Nash is no longer elite. Kessel is just entering his prime.
- leafs_wingp

I don't know where you got your numbers from but that simply isn't true. Anyways, I'm all for having both and don't think Kessel should be traded. I think hes solid but not the guy who is gonna carry a franchise. His personality won't let him.

Apparently you think the scoresheet is the only thing that happens in a hockey game.

edit: great burn on the Fernandez comment btw
- 1979AD

Hossa did win all those Selke's 10 years ago... forgot about those.