I love reading the endless "it's all the vets fault!!!" non-sense.

It is the simplest of concepts people, yet year after year they don't get it.

Horcoff plays the majority of the game against Thorton

RNH plays the majority of the game against Moore and Mitchell

Who do you think is going to "look" best? Who do you think is going to have the most scoring chances against and the most scoring chances for?
- Zombie

Agreed. Horcoff, Hemsky and Belanger have all been fantastic this year.

Wasn't RNH playing against Marleau's line?
- Lahey

RNH, Hall, and Eberle all play against beer-league quality guys.

There is probably only 2-3 coaches that would make a big difference on this team and even then I don't know how long that would last.
- Lahey

If that is the issue, if these players are turning on coaches by game 60 of a season, then perhaps it's time for new bodies. Enough with the we're building a winning culture because apparently some of the players aren't buying into that idea.

If that is the issue, if these players are turning on coaches by game 60 of a season, then perhaps it's time for new bodies. Enough with the we're building a winning culture because apparently some of the players aren't buying into that idea.
- Ben37

There isn't exactly that many bodies to turn over at this point. Hemsky, Horcoff and Gagner are really the only guys that have been here the whole time up front and on the back end Smid is the only guy that's been around.

Wasn't RNH playing against Marleau's line?
- Lahey

Its a general statment, Horcoff plays against the other teams top offensive threat. The kids play against secondary players.

It's exactly how it should be but it drastically distorts peception.

To those of you who saw the game and Renney's post game interview, do you think he IS calling out specific players like a Hemsky?

Seems to me he's sputtering and flustered overall; a long season and pissed at himself as well for not getting this team to play better---has to be frustrating watching guys, as he put it "play on their heels". (Frank)ing sad.

Its a general statment, Horcoff plays against the other teams top offensive threat. The kids play against secondary players.

It's exactly how it should be but it drastically distorts peception.
- Zombie

Even if they play against the top lines, there still is no reason why there isn't an effort. Smyth is a shell of himself. I want to see more out of Horcoff and Smyth when it comes to drive. I'm okay with Horcoff's play, but I'd like to see more of a fire out of these guys.

Jones seems to be rushing to the goalies at every whistle, would be nice to see others follow suit.

Edit: I want to see more out of Hemmer too, but it really shouldn't be a shock as he has never been a guy to give 100% for more than a few games at a time.

To those of you who saw the game and Renney's post game interview, do you think he IS calling out specific players like a Hemsky?

Seems to me he's sputtering and flustered overall; a long season and pissed at himself as well for not getting this team to play better---has to be frustrating watching guys, as he put it "play on their heels". (Frank)ing sad.
- Salvo

Smyth?

I guess Gagner too, although I don't know that Gagner can successful with Omark and Hemsky.

There isn't exactly that many bodies to turn over at this point. Hemsky, Horcoff and Gagner are really the only guys that have been here the whole time up front and on the back end Smid is the only guy that's been around.
- Lahey

I don't think that Smid and Gagner have been part of the problem though. Hemsky we've been hearing rumblings about his pouting all season. Horcoff is wearing the "C" if he's part of the problem than that is a big issue. You are correct though, at this point in the season there is nothing that management can do, but in the offseason they can start making changes.

I don't think that Smid and Gagner have been part of the problem though. Hemsky we've been hearing rumblings about his pouting all season. Horcoff is wearing the "C" if he's part of the problem than that is a big issue. You are correct though, at this point in the season there is nothing that management can do, but in the offseason they can start making changes.
- Ben37

Be interesting to see if Hemsky is an Oiler next year. Sure he has a contract, but if he is in fact a problem I don't doubt that he gets dealt.

Smyth?

I guess Gagner too, although I don't know that Gagner can successful with Omark and Hemsky.
- Lahey

I can't see it being Smyth as he was on the ice in the last minute of the game. Jones and Hemsky and maybe Belanger would be my guess if there were specific players he was referring to

I don't think that Smid and Gagner have been part of the problem though. Hemsky we've been hearing rumblings about his pouting all season. Horcoff is wearing the "C" if he's part of the problem than that is a big issue. You are correct though, at this point in the season there is nothing that management can do, but in the offseason they can start making changes.
- Ben37

If management knows who is causing them problem then give them their walking papers at the end of the year. If management doesn't know who is causing internal strife then it's management that has to leave.

From the sounds of it, Renney knows who the problem children are. Whether it's Hemsky, or Jones, or Smyth, or one of the kids, it's Renney's problem. He needs to fix it or Tambellini needs to find someone who can.

I can't see it being Smyth as he was on the ice in the last minute of the game. Jones and Hemsky and maybe Belanger would be my guess if there were specific players he was referring to
- abware

I wonder if it's just a blanket statement.

Smyth?

I guess Gagner too, although I don't know that Gagner can successful with Omark and Hemsky.
- Lahey

Sigh. I understand Renney is pissed and perhaps lost the room but using phrasing like "it only takes a few guys...to not give a poop"-----I mean...

Indeed, Smyth is a shell of himself but (frank) me if we are talking about a heart and soul guy coming to the rink with a white towel. Who knows perhaps old
bear is just so bloody tired he does'n't that gear anymore.

What I've always loved about Gagner is his passion.
Whatever, just a natural boiling point for a team and a coaching staff searching for answers; what stings is we are back in this place where the messaging is "the room" and "the culture".

Hopefully it's just BS.

I'm thinking it's more about:

Defense is bad

Goaltending is below average

Kid forwards are too young compete with the leagues best

Vets forwards are too old to compete with the leagues best

Then it is about effort and "culture"

I'm thinking it's more about:

Defense is bad

Goaltending is below average

Kid forwards are too young compete with the leagues best

Vets forwards are too old to compete with the leagues best

Then it is about effort and "culture"
- Zombie

The kids aren't too young to compete,they are keeping the team in almost every game. The vets aren't that old, they are expected to play too big of role and too much ice time. Let the kids loose it is their team, give the vets the secondary role and the pk. It might be ugly for a bit, but it has to happen sooner or later.

I'm thinking it's more about:

Defense is bad

Goaltending is below average

Kid forwards are too young compete with the leagues best

Vets forwards are too old to compete with the leagues best

Then it is about effort and "culture"
- Zombie

That's what I'm thinking.
Pretty telling though dude when the coach uses phrasing like "some guys don't give a sh!t"

I get so tired of the "culture" talk. True to an extent but also an apparition.

I'm thinking it's more about:

Defense is bad

Goaltending is below average

Kid forwards are too young compete with the leagues best

Vets forwards are too old to compete with the leagues best

Then it is about effort and "culture"
- Zombie

I would put goaltending at the top of the list. More than a few close and winnable games this year have been lost on soft goals at the wrong time.

Maybe I'm alone in my thinking, but I think the d hasn't actually been as bad as advertised and has taken some good strides this year. The addition of the right guy in the off season and drafting a blue chipper would go a long way. Griffin Reinhart will win the Calder, Norris, Hart and Heisman trophies next year.

Disagree about the kids. They've all shown they're quite capable of playing against other teams best. Other teams stopped treating them as non-threats a while ago, and they still produce.

Vets. Yes. Too old, not talented enough.

No playoffs since 2006. The culture becomes a bigger issue every season.

The kids aren't too young to compete,they are keeping the team in almost every game. The vets aren't that old, they are expected to play too big of role and too much ice time. Let the kids loose it is their team, give the vets the secondary role and the pk. It might be ugly for a bit, but it has to happen sooner or later.
- abware

Well the team doesn't seem to think the kids are ready, the GF/GA home vs away reflects that as well.

That's what I'm thinking.
Pretty telling though dude when the coach uses phrasing like "some guys don't give a sh!t"

I get so tired of the "culture" talk. True to an extent but also an apparition.
- Salvo

Stuff like that always pops up when your team is bad.

When the Sabres were near the bottom of the league, that was their story too, now that they are inching towards the PO no one talks about it.

That's what I'm thinking.
Pretty telling though dude when the coach uses phrasing like "some guys don't give a sh!t"

I get so tired of the "culture" talk. True to an extent but also an apparition.
- Salvo

They've done nothing but suck for 5 seasons. Other teams with arguably less talent continue to be competitive and make the playoffs. I'd say culture is a significant problem.

Stuff like that always pops up when your team is bad.

When the Sabres were near the bottom of the league, that was their story too, now that they are inching towards the PO no one talks about it.
- Zombie

The Sabres actually have a legitimate starting goaltender.

Meh...we're all grasping for answers and solutions and I don't think any one thing will fix it right away.

Bob McKenzie for Oilers GM, please...
- laughs2907

This might not be a bad idea at all...couldn't be any worse that what the Oilers have now.

I would put goaltending at the top of the list. More than a few close and winnable games this year have been lost on soft goals at the wrong time.

Maybe I'm alone in my thinking, but I think the d hasn't actually been as bad as advertised and has taken some good strides this year. The addition of the right guy in the off season and drafting a blue chipper would go a long way. Griffin Reinhart will win the Calder, Norris, Hart and Heisman trophies next year.

Disagree about the kids. They've all shown they're quite capable of playing against other teams best. Other teams stopped treating them as non-threats a while ago, and they still produce.

Vets. Yes. Too old, not talented enough.

No playoffs since 2006. The culture becomes a bigger issue every season.
- GuyLaDouche

Overall the goaltending numbers aren't that bad though.... certainly need an upgrade, but they aren't far off average.

Agreed that defense has been better then expected, but is still the teams weakness.


Theirs a reason Horc/Hemsky/Smyth are getting more points on the road then at home and a reason Ebs/RNH/Hall are getting more at home then on the road (RNH by a very wide margin)

The kids are far better when they get the match up we want.