Did Homer jump the gun on term and dollars for JVR? Maybe. But it could be a gamble that really pays off if he turns out to be a consistent 35+ goal scorer at a 4.25 hit. that's 750k less per year than what James Neal just got.
- OrangeBlack27

He's easily a 20+ goal player when healthy. So forecasting him to be a 35+ one isn't that far off.

Im sorry i dont pay for potential....espescially for a player who last year was getting benched for his lazyness.
- Philly1980

Unless your name is Ed Snider, then you're not paying anyway.

So you'd rather wait until he has a huge season, goes to arbitration and wins a huge award, and then have to move out other pieces to fit his contract under the cap?

Im sorry i dont pay for potential....espescially for a player who last year was getting benched for his lazyness.
- Philly1980

It happens all the time in the NHL.

Unless your name is Ed Snider, then you're not paying anyway.

So you'd rather wait until he has a huge season, goes to arbitration and wins a huge award, and then have to move out other pieces to fit his contract under the cap?
- Jsaquella

Of course im paying...Im paying the rising ticket costs to games and so on.

He's easily a 20+ goal player when healthy. So forecasting him to be a 35+ one isn't that far off.
- JoeRussomanno

Let's put it another way-the most asked about player at the TDL, according to the reports, was JvR. That tells me other GMs don't think his contract is that bad, and that he will become a good player.

Of course im paying...Im paying the rising ticket costs to games and so on.
- Philly1980

Do you give one of the tickets to the guy holding the gun to your head, forcing you to buy the tickets or is he just there to provide motivation?

JVR is in my opinion the new Carter....gotta have someone to hate
- Philly1980

You mean a big, strong, fast, highly skilled player who for the most part avoids contact and is content on playing on the perimeter?

Any way you slice it, he's been a rather big disappointment so far in Philly.

Lucky for him there is Bryz. Should Bryz somehow find his form from the last few years, JVR will be A1 whipping boy. I'd say he has till next years trade deadline (right or wrong) to live up to his #2 overall pick and have a breakout campaign, else Holmgren will ship him elsewhere.

Let's put it another way-the most asked about player at the TDL, according to the reports, was JvR. That tells me other GMs don't think his contract is that bad, and that he will become a good player.
- Jsaquella

My only criticism has always been this, he just needs to play with a bit more nastiness. He's doesn't have to be a fighter just use his size a little more. Otherwise the kid has tons of skill. People wanted Rick Nash so G-damned bad a week ago but he's getting twice the money and only had 17 goals on the year to JVR's 11 in a quarter of a season played. He'll be a top ten maybe 5 goal scorer in a couple years.

Do you give one of the tickets to the guy holding the gun to your head, forcing you to buy the tickets or is he just there to provide motivation?
- Jsaquella

Dude if im going to pay 50$ a ticket to sit in the last god damn row...i want to see jvr (frank)ing playing like simmonds...i want the kid to do well dont get me wrong. I seriously think he lacks that fire.

Wasn't just here, though. I know most people here were tongue-in-cheek about it.

But there were any number of idiots -- the type that angrily yell "hit somebody!" when the team has allowed 2 harmless shots in the last 10 minutes and "shoot!"when there's a maze of players and no angle for a shot -- who were popping up on other message boards, Twitter and (of course) WIP to accuse JVR of malingering the concussion.

Usually I just let that sort of stuff slide, but that made me angry. JVR didn't deserve that. Criticize his inconsistency, sure. Say the injuries are not an excuse for his so-so production, OK. But accuse him of malingering? That's way, way over the line.
- bmeltzer

I am not going to lie, I was one of those people who tweeted to you that I wouldn't be upset if we traded jvr during the deadline if the right deal came down the pipeline, I was at lastnights game and after seeing how jvr cleared the zone after he blocked that shot, I got everyone in my section to give the guy a standing O as he limped off the ice. That play made me pretty happy we didn't trade him.

On another note, I cant stand people who yell shoot when the puck is getting cycled and theres 3-6 players cloging the lanes.... I always ask people at the games who scream shoot all the time if they want the puck to deflect off someones pad, create an odd man rush and lead to a goal for the opposing team...that shuts them up pretty fast.

My only criticism has always been this, he just needs to play with a bit more nastiness. He's doesn't have to be a fighter just use his size a little more. Otherwise the kid has tons of skill. People wanted Rick Nash so G-damned bad a week ago but he's getting twice the money and only had 17 goals on the year to JVR's 11 in a quarter of a season played. He'll be a top ten maybe 5 goal scorer in a couple years.
- JoeRussomanno

He absolutely does. At age 22, that was also one of the complaints about both Wheeler and LeClair. That's my point, I don;t want to trade him now, and see him become John LeClair somewhere else.

You mean a big, strong, fast, highly skilled player who for the most part avoids contact and is content on playing on the perimeter?

Any way you slice it, he's been a rather big disappointment so far in Philly.

Lucky for him there is Bryz. Should Bryz somehow find his form from the last few years, JVR will be A1 whipping boy. I'd say he has till next years trade deadline (right or wrong) to live up to his #2 overall pick and have a breakout campaign, else Holmgren will ship him elsewhere.
- LW2530

Certainly more pressure on JVR next year when his cap hit nearly triples. Too early to write him off obviously, but there is going to have to be a dramatic spike in production or he will start getting a lot of criticism.

Dude if im going to pay 50$ a ticket to sit in the last god damn row...i want to see jvr (frank)ing playing like simmonds...i want the kid to do well dont get me wrong. I seriously think he lacks that fire.
- Philly1980

Again, IF you pay $50 a ticket...Guys get paid on potential in every sport, it's a fact of life.

We'd all like to see JvR play more like Simmonds, go into the dirty areas and get nasty, use his size better. We've seen flashes of it. The thing is, it doesn't happen overnight, or even sometimes in 2 or 3 years. Sometimes it takes a guy until he's 25 or 26 to fully realize his potential, like it did for LeClair.

Dude if im going to pay 50$ a ticket to sit in the last god damn row...i want to see jvr (frank)ing playing like simmonds...i want the kid to do well dont get me wrong. I seriously think he lacks that fire.
- Philly1980

If he wasn't injured all year he would have almost twice the goals of Simmonds. I understand the concern of him making more than Giroux like you mentioned. But Giroux is locked up in a deal signed way earlier. If you're GIroux you want guys like JVR getting paid like that, gives you more leverage when your EL deal expires.

I thought this was going to be his breakout season. Damn shame about his bad luck with injuries.

And it shouldn't surprise you that people took what started as a joke and ran with it...you've been around this team and its fans long enough.
- tangent_man

i was happy to see bill call that out a little bit. so ridiculous.

Bill Meltzer: Meltzer's Musings: 3/2/12
- bmeltzer

Well said about JVR Bill. The kid oozes skill. Great seasons are in his future and I for one hope its with the Flyers.

He absolutely does. At age 22, that was also one of the complaints about both Wheeler and LeClair. That's my point, I don;t want to trade him now, and see him become John LeClair somewhere else.
- Jsaquella

Trading him now is a knee jerk reaction. I like this team as it is. Gotta retool the Blue line due to Pronger but this is a team that Homer needs to keep together. I'm going all in with em this year as far as playoff expectations. IF they fall short it's not breaking my heart either, the future is just too bright.

Certainly more pressure on JVR next year when his cap hit nearly triples. Too early to write him off obviously, but there is going to have to be a dramatic spike in production or he will start getting a lot of criticism.
- PLindbergh31

opposed to now?

So what are you saying lets wait till hes thirty to produce like leclair and in the meantime pay him now for that future production. What i was trying to say, was that he doesnt deserve the contract hes getting next year! That is all.
- Philly1980

There is an element of risk in a contract like that, where you are locking up a player based on a short body of work and presumed future production. Sometimes it pays off immediately, sometimes not for a few years and sometimes it backfires.

The Flyers are looking pretty good right now cap wise on the Claude Giroux deal, which runs two seasons beyond this one and will still leave him with one more RFA off-season afterwards.

Another example: Early in the 2009-10 season, Dallas locked Loui Eriksson up in a six-year contract extension that runs through 2015-16 and pays him $4.25 million on the cap (nearly 4 times what he was making on his then-current deal). He was coming off his first breakout year, but was off to a slow start when he signed the big extension. It worked out very well ever since.

On the flip side, Tomas Plekanec hasn't quite been a $5 million player since signing the big six-year extension after his 70-point season a few years ago (after posting 39 the year before).

The Flyers signed JVR to the big extension based on his playoff run and strong play over the final 60 games of last season (people forget he had no goals in the first 21 games and still finished with 21 on the season) and then the big playoff. They were basing it also on his dedication to year-round conditioning, and the career progress path of similar players.

There was a lot of good rationale behind the JVR extension, especially with Richards and Carter gone from the team. So far it looks like it may have been given too hastily but in the same situation, they'd probably do it again.

Again, IF you pay $50 a ticket...Guys get paid on potential in every sport, it's a fact of life.

We'd all like to see JvR play more like Simmonds, go into the dirty areas and get nasty, use his size better. We've seen flashes of it. The thing is, it doesn't happen overnight, or even sometimes in 2 or 3 years. Sometimes it takes a guy until he's 25 or 26 to fully realize his potential, like it did for LeClair.
- Jsaquella

well simmonds isnt that old hes 23-24. i wish JVR played more like him. if he did he would be a forty goal scorer. Im simply questioning his heart thats all.

look at Blake Wheeler (picking out a big guy)...first 3 yrs 127 points in 244 games (.520 ppg). this year he is really starting to come into his own....52 points in 64 games (.828). I just wish people would be patient....and more importantly, i hope the Flyers are patient.
- nastyflyergirl

I have watched alot of jets games this season and I can tell you that Boston gave up too early on him, hes a staple in the jets top 6 and they are a MUCH worse team when hes not playing, numbers aside his positioning is great and he also backchecks well.

I dont know bill there were too many games where he was invisible. That might have been becuase of his injuries and what not. To me the true indicator of his effectiveness is that the team doesnt seem to be missing a beat with out him.
- Philly1980

I think the flyers could be without any of their top 9 (minus roo) and be ok, I would say thats a product of a deep team upfront

Who cares that JVR has been struggling this regular season. If he can come close to playing at the level he did last year in the post season I'm very happy....same thought for Briere too.
- Manitobakid

Briere earns his contract in the post season and im ok with that.

# 2 overall picks since JVR was drafted.

Doughty
Hedman
Seguin
Landeskog

Three of these guys are already light years ahead of JVR in their development.

opposed to now?
- nastyflyergirl

I'm giving him a pass this year based on the injuries. His pace was looking very good.

There is an element of risk in a contract like that, where you are locking up a player based on a short body of work and presumed future production. Sometimes it pays off immediately, sometimes not for a few years and sometimes it backfires.

The Flyers are looking pretty good right now cap wise on the Claude Giroux deal, which runs two seasons beyond this one and will still leave him with one more RFA off-season afterwards.

Another example: Early in the 2009-10 season, Dallas locked Loui Eriksson up in a six-year contract extension that runs through 2015-16 and pays him $4.25 million on the cap (nearly 4 times what he was making on his then-current deal). He was coming off his first breakout year, but was off to a slow start when he signed the big extension. It worked out very well ever since.

On the flip side, Tomas Plekanec hasn't quite been a $5 million player since signing the big six-year extension after his 70-point season a few years ago (after posting 39 the year before).

The Flyers signed JVR to the big extension based on his playoff run and strong play over the final 60 games of last season (people forget he had no goals in the first 21 games and still finished with 21 on the season) and then the big playoff. They were basing it also on his dedication to year-round conditioning, and the career progress path of similar players.

There was a lot of good rationale behind the JVR extension, especially with Richards and Carter gone from the team. So far it looks like it may have been given too hastily but in the same situation, they'd probably do it again.
- bmeltzer

Maybe Jere Lehtinen can come on board and give JVR some advice/lessons, like he did with Loui.

There is an element of risk in a contract like that, where you are locking up a player based on a short body of work and presumed future production. Sometimes it pays off immediately, sometimes not for a few years and sometimes it backfires.

The Flyers are looking pretty good right now cap wise on the Claude Giroux deal, which runs two seasons beyond this one and will still leave him with one more RFA off-season afterwards.

Another example: Early in the 2009-10 season, Dallas locked Loui Eriksson up in a six-year contract extension that runs through 2015-16 and pays him $4.25 million on the cap (nearly 4 times what he was making on his then-current deal). He was coming off his first breakout year, but was off to a slow start when he signed the big extension. It worked out very well ever since.

On the flip side, Tomas Plekanec hasn't quite been a $5 million player since signing the big six-year extension after his 70-point season a few years ago (after posting 39 the year before).

The Flyers signed JVR to the big extension based on his playoff run and strong play over the final 60 games of last season (people forget he had no goals in the first 21 games and still finished with 21 on the season) and then the big playoff. They were basing it also on his dedication to year-round conditioning, and the career progress path of similar players.

There was a lot of good rationale behind the JVR extension, especially with Richards and Carter gone from the team. So far it looks like it may have been given too hastily but in the same situation, they'd probably do it again.
- bmeltzer

Its a shame hes been hurt this year. I guess we will have to wait till next year to find out. To me anyway, and this is my opinion is that JVR has the skills to dominate a game. Getting him though to play like that is like pulling teeth out.