Yeah, it's literally a bad opinion. Baseless, ignorant, emotional, and immature. I'm not exactly sure what this "kiss your ring" thing is about, either. If I had to rate his post, I would probably give it an F-, with the comment, "Please don't see me after class. Ever."
- BulliesPhan87

You guys are starting to sound like know it all TO or MTL fans. Don't ever suggest that anyone would have selfish motives...particularly on my team. And you would probably be first in line to support this very opinion if it was the same circumstance with someone on the Pens or Rags.

You guys are starting to sound like know it all TO or MTL fans. Don't ever suggest that anyone would have selfish motives...particularly on my team. And you would probably be first in line to support this very opinion if it was the same circumstance with someone on the Pens or Rags.
- section32

I wouldn't suggest any player is faking an injury, regardless of team. I think you're being ridiculous. The idea that a player is faking an injury to benefit their career makes no sense. JVR is assured the money he signed for on this contract, regardless of where he plays. I don't see what faking an injury would do for him anyway, aside from harming his chances of ever having any NHL team feel safe in depending on him as a player, let alone getting another contract down the line.

EDIT: On second though, the only way he isn't assured the money on his contract would be if he were bought out of his contract, which would only conceivable happen if *gasp* he were doing something insane like faking an injury.

I wouldn't suggest any player is faking an injury, regardless of team. I think you're being ridiculous. The idea that a player is faking an injury to benefit their career makes no sense. JVR is assured the money he signed for on this contract, regardless of where he plays. I don't see what faking an injury would do for him anyway, aside from harming his chances of ever having any NHL team feel safe in depending on him as a player, let alone getting another contract down the line.

EDIT: On second though, the only way he isn't assured the money on his contract would be if he were bought out of his contract, which would only conceivable happen if *gasp* he were doing something insane like faking an injury.
- BulliesPhan87

Now THAT is a well thought, intelligent response. However, who could ever prove one way or the other with a concussion? Heck, it wasn't so long ago that shell sucked zombies are back out on the ice after a few GAMES(Lindros and Primeau).

Now THAT is a well thought, intelligent response. However, who could ever prove one way or the other with a concussion? Heck, it wasn't so long ago that shell sucked zombies are back out on the ice after a few GAMES(Lindros and Primeau).
- section32

And what happened to them when they did come back too early? Primeau STILL has PCS. That's why the league, teams, and (reluctantly) players themselves are more sensible regarding head injuries.

And disagreeing with Bill is fine, but keep it respectful. You might want to review the code of conduct. As might those who are personally attacking in any direction.

Now THAT is a well thought, intelligent response. However, who could ever prove one way or the other with a concussion? Heck, it wasn't so long ago that shell sucked zombies are back out on the ice after a few GAMES(Lindros and Primeau).
- section32

I think there's a humangous universe of difference between a player wanting to get back to the ice in spite of medical advice, and a player staying off the ice in poorly devised self interest. It really has nothing to do with an assumption these players are morally impeccable gods among men, it's about the basic logistics of the scenario. There's no benefit to faking an injury, unless one's goal is to destroy their own reputation and consequently career. In the case of returning too soon, there's a whole lot more motivation to do so: duty to one's team (whether to the team itself or to friends in the locker room), a competitive drive, the pursuit of personal glory.

Faking a concussion would be easier than faking a broken foot. The areas of gray with concussions, coupled with the precautions teams are taking make it easier. Let's all agree that there is no room for chance with a brain injury. Let's say the player is uncertain exactly where he is on the recovery trail. You start hearing trade rumors. You think that has no impact on your frame of mind. It could make you feel less than perfect from a mental capacity. These guys aren't horses that you load on a trailer and send off to the next destination. Look how Carter reacted to his trade. He stayed holed up in his beach house for a week until management came in to kiss his butt. So don't tell me these guys are above anything.
- section32

Or there is the opposite explanation. That Carter took time to himself so he wouldn't react emotionally to a disappointing trade, and say something that he didn't think through, or that he would regret later. Which would be a smart, intelligent, and mature course of action to take. Rather then being impulsive. But somehow that has evolved into "he stayed holed up in his beach house for a week until management came in to kiss his butt".

Now THAT is a well thought, intelligent response. However, who could ever prove one way or the other with a concussion? Heck, it wasn't so long ago that shell sucked zombies are back out on the ice after a few GAMES(Lindros and Primeau).
- section32

There are definitely definitive medical tests that can provide an accurate diagnosis of a concussion. It's not just a guess by Doctor's due to having no explanation.

Faking a concussion would be easier than faking a broken foot. The areas of gray with concussions, coupled with the precautions teams are taking make it easier. Let's all agree that there is no room for chance with a brain injury. Let's say the player is uncertain exactly where he is on the recovery trail. You start hearing trade rumors. You think that has no impact on your frame of mind. It could make you feel less than perfect from a mental capacity. These guys aren't horses that you load on a trailer and send off to the next destination. Look how Carter reacted to his trade. He stayed holed up in his beach house for a week until management came in to kiss his butt. So don't tell me these guys are above anything.
- section32

There were people were suggesting that he was not hurt at all, but only faking to avoid being traded.

And what happened to them when they did come back too early? Primeau STILL has PCS. That's why the league, teams, and (reluctantly) players themselves are more sensible regarding head injuries.

And disagreeing with Bill is fine, but keep it respectful. You might want to review the code of conduct. As might those who are personally attacking in any direction.
- bodiva88

Help me out here. Where was the personal attack?

Or there is the opposite explanation. That Carter took time to himself so he wouldn't react emotionally to a disappointing trade, and say something that he didn't think through, or that he would regret later. Which would be a smart, intelligent, and mature course of action to take. Rather then being impulsive. But somehow that has evolved into "he stayed holed up in his beach house for a week until management came in to kiss his butt".
- MJL

I'm not going to debate Carter with you. You have had a clear bias towards defending him. And he certainly showed the "professional" that he is by the lackluster effort in Cbus. Now he gets on a better team with Richie and he already starts to perform? And I am already taking his injury in Colombia into account so don't use that excuse. Next thing you know they will both be hanging out at the Sober Valley Ranch with Charlie Sheen.

There are definitely definitive medical tests that can provide an accurate diagnosis of a concussion. It's not just a guess by Doctor's due to having no explanation.
- MJL

It is much more subjectively interpretted than an x-ray though.

I'm not going to debate Carter with you. You have had a clear bias towards defending him. And he certainly showed the "professional" that he is by the lackluster effort in Cbus. Now he gets on a better team with Richie and he already starts to perform? And I am already taking his injury in Colombia into account so don't use that excuse. Next thing you know they will both be hanging out at the Sober Valley Ranch with Charlie Sheen.
- section32

Where was the lackluster effort in Columbus? He scored goals at a 30 goal pace there. While dealing with numerous injuries. I have zero bias towards defending Carter. I deal in what I know to be facts. And there are two sides to look at it. Saying the reason why Carter didn't speak publicly immediately after he was traded, is that he was waiting for management to kiss his ass, is an assumption. I showed how an assumption can be made in the other direction.

Carter has zero points in 3 games with LA.

It is much more subjectively interpretted than an x-ray though.
- section32

Yes, it is. But that doesn't mean it's a random guess. And that they just take the players word for it.

Yes, it is. But that doesn't mean it's a random guess. And that they just take the players word for it.
- MJL

But it would be pretty easy to get the alphabet wrong on the test as well.

Where was the lackluster effort in Columbus? He scored goals at a 30 goal pace there. While dealing with numerous injuries. I have zero bias towards defending Carter. I deal in what I know to be facts. And there are two sides to look at it. Saying the reason why Carter didn't speak publicly immediately after he was traded, is that he was waiting for management to kiss his ass, is an assumption. I showed how an assumption can be made in the other direction.

Carter has zero points in 3 games with LA.
- MJL

If they had to fly in from C-Bus to have a sit down and convince him to come, I would say that is a little out of the norm.
And he has to be accounted for on the ice in LA and it looks like they are playing better and scoring goals.

If they had to fly in from C-Bus to have a sit down and convince him to come, I would say that is a little out of the norm.
And he has to be accounted for on the ice in LA and it looks like they are playing better and scoring goals.
- section32

Where are you getting this info from that Carter had to be convinced to come to Columbus? Where is the factual evidence to support that Carter was going to hold out and not report to Columbus?

Where are you getting this info from that Carter had to be convinced to come to Columbus? Where is the factual evidence to support that Carter was going to hold out and not report to Columbus?
- MJL

Because he locked himself in his beach house for a week and wouldn't speak to anyone. How many times have you seen a GM fly in to do that? It was highly publicized at the time. Everyone even half understood his POV because of his recent extension. Nobody said he would holdout either.

Because he locked himself in his beach house for a week and wouldn't speak to anyone. How many times have you seen a GM fly in to do that? It was highly publicized at the time. Everyone even half understood his POV because of his recent extension. Nobody said he would holdout either.
- section32

Everyone is aware that Carter did not talk to the team right away. And that Howson went to visit him. Both Carter and his agent said publicly that that had nothing to do with not wanting to play for Columbus, or any ill will towards Columbus. But fans went off on their own speculation such as he was waiting for Columbus to "kiss his ass"

Everyone is aware that Carter did not talk to the team right away. And that Howson went to visit him. Both Carter and his agent said publicly that that had nothing to do with not wanting to play for Columbus, or any ill will towards Columbus. But fans went off on their own speculation such as he was waiting for Columbus to "kiss his ass"
- MJL

It would have been the kiss of death for him to publicly say that. Howson clearly had to come in and talk him off the window ledge. He really had no choice because there was no nmc, but he could have not reported. So her we are half a season away and he gets out anyway.

It would have been the kiss of death for him to publicly say that. Howson clearly had to come in and talk him off the window ledge. He really had no choice because there was no nmc, but he could have not reported. So her we are half a season away and he gets out anyway.
- section32

So it's based on pure speculation and nothing else? There is no factual information available that Howson had to "kiss his ass" or "talk him off the window ledge". That's clearly your interpretation on what happened. All we know for sure is that Carter was unhappy being traded to Columbus, and who can blame him. All indications are that he acted professionally in Columbus.

It's really a shame how two players who were very good players for the Flyers have had their reps dragged through the mud, due to speculation and innuendo.

So it's based on pure speculation and nothing else? There is no factual information available that Howson had to "kiss his ass" or "talk him off the window ledge". That's clearly your interpretation on what happened. All we know for sure is that Carter was unhappy being traded to Columbus, and who can blame him. All indications are that he acted professionally in Columbus.

It's really a shame how two players who were very good players for the Flyers have had their reps dragged through the mud, due to speculation and innuendo.
- MJL

Oh , please...cry me a river...they were two spoiled wanna be frat boys that got run out of town on a rail while they were still worth something. Their carousing was well documented and often photographed. They were every bit as bad as Big E in his hay day. Richie should have never had the C. And even though you believe all this is speculation and conjecture you contradict yourself by agreeing with all the reasoning behind the conjecture when you say, " All we know for sure is that Carter was unhappy being traded to Columbus, and who can blame him.."
And when in the history of the NHL has a GM had to come to town after the fact to make sure the player showed up? Or let's say that is all just conjecture as well...perhaps Carter just invited his new boss to the beach for a long weekend of R and R. Or is that just another piece of conjecture? You tell me...which is more likely. For all we know, Carter was threatening to spend an eternity in the KHL. Nobody knows for certain and if you think this really matters that we spend time on this blog talking and speculating then I would suggest you take tgis a bit too seriously.

I have been coming to these boards since 2006 and I know you have been here for at least that long. I know you know your stuff, but in but my opinion you have always been a Carter apologist. This trade isn't the first time his name has come up in rumors and you consistently spoke out against them. That's fine. You are entitled to your opinion and I respect that. but the fact of the matter is that none of us fans know the inside story. Teams and agents and players go to great lengths to keep this stuff under wraps. So, how could any of us know anything really?

There was a great deal of talk back when Brindy was traded to Carolina because the rumor was that Lindros hooked up with Rod's wife. Nobody knows for certain. People in hockey circles talk about it like it is a fact, but who knows anything for sure. My point is..ALL WE DO HERE IS SPECULATE ON THINGS. That is part of the fun. Potential trades, cap considerations, etc...we all get to be closet GMs. But the tiring thing is people acting like they run the place just because they are here 15 hours a day.

There are definitely definitive medical tests that can provide an accurate diagnosis of a concussion. It's not just a guess by Doctor's due to having no explanation.
- MJL

No, actually, there aren't. Much of what doctors have to go on is the player's symptoms as the player is able (and willing) to describe them. Failing a baseline can confirm there is one, passing a baseline does not confirm there is not. And an MRI, x-ray, or CAT scan tell you nothing about a concussion.

No, actually, there aren't. Much of what doctors have to go on is the player's symptoms as the player is able (and willing) to describe them. Failing a baseline can confirm there is one, passing a baseline does not confirm there is not. And an MRI, x-ray, or CAT scan tell you nothing about a concussion.
- bodiva88

I'm well aware that an MRI, X Ray, or Cat scan tell you nothing about a concussion. As is anybody who has paid attention to concussion issues around the League. And there absolutely are diagnostic tools to diagnose a concussion in a player.
Such as a nuero-vestibular exam and a neuro-cognitive test. There are concussion experts in the Country who are well versed and specialize in diagnosing concussions

I'm well aware that an MRI, X Ray, or Cat scan tell you nothing about a concussion. As is anybody who has paid attention to concussion issues around the League. And there absolutely are diagnostic tools to diagnose a concussion in a player.
Such as a nuero-vestibular exam and a neuro-cognitive test. There are concussion experts in the Country who are well versed and specialize in diagnosing concussions
- MJL

If there were a definitive test, you wouldn't have guys playing with concussions unknowingly.

"Concussions can be challenging because unlike other injuries, there is no one, definitive test or marker that easily sorts out whether or not someone has an injury, or how severe it is," Putukian said. "You can't 'see' them the way you would a broken bone -- rather you combine several components such as symptoms and clinical and cognitive evaluations to make a diagnosis.""

That is from this article on Princeton researchers who are trying to develop a definitive test.
http://www.princeton.edu/...ndex.xml?section=featured

If there were a definitive test, you wouldn't have guys playing with concussions unknowingly.

"Concussions can be challenging because unlike other injuries, there is no one, definitive test or marker that easily sorts out whether or not someone has an injury, or how severe it is," Putukian said. "You can't 'see' them the way you would a broken bone -- rather you combine several components such as symptoms and clinical and cognitive evaluations to make a diagnosis.""

That is from this article on Princeton researchers who are trying to develop a definitive test.
http://www.princeton.edu/...ndex.xml?section=featured
- bodiva88

You have players that play with other injuries that aren't diagnosed properly also. That's the Medical field. There are most definitely diagnostic tools that can be used to diagnose a concussion. I can google search articles and post links by other experts in the field saying there are.