My question is this. Why would Nystrom drop them, giving the Pens what they wanted, and giving them more momentum/energy?

I understand as a hockey fan, the thought process of "answering the bell" per se. However, sometimes I think players can be really stupid by dropping the gloves when the opposition wants it, and with doing so, normally changes the momentum.

As much as the Pens and their fans wanted him to do so.....I dont know that I would say Nystrom "cowered away from it."

Just like Ott not dropping them with Asham. I see the Pens side, but looking at the other side....why would he give the Pens what they want?

I think back to the Pens vs Flyers in the playoffs a few yrs ago as a prime example of my thought process. The Flyers were up by a few goals in the game, IIRC Talbot wanted Carcillo to drop the gloves- he does, and the Pens came roaring back in that game. To me, it was STUPID of Carcillo to "answer the bell".
- Bren4Wings

Nystrom doesnt have to drop the gloves, what we are saying is he shouldnt have a choice. If he doesnt drop them, then stand there and get pummeled. If Nystrom laid that hit on Gretzky, would Mcsorley have given him a choice?

My question is this. Why would Nystrom drop them, giving the Pens what they wanted, and giving them more momentum/energy?

I understand as a hockey fan, the thought process of "answering the bell" per se. However, sometimes I think players can be really stupid by dropping the gloves when the opposition wants it, and with doing so, normally changes the momentum.

As much as the Pens and their fans wanted him to do so.....I dont know that I would say Nystrom "cowered away from it."

Just like Ott not dropping them with Asham. I see the Pens side, but looking at the other side....why would he give the Pens what they want?

I think back to the Pens vs Flyers in the playoffs a few yrs ago as a prime example of my thought process. The Flyers were up by a few goals in the game, IIRC Talbot wanted Carcillo to drop the gloves- he does, and the Pens came roaring back in that game. To me, it was STUPID of Carcillo to "answer the bell".
- Bren4Wings

What we are suggesting is he either drops them and defends himself or just receives a beating with his gloves on. And if you read threw the rest of the posts it looks like we are split on the hit. I didn't like it but I don't think it is one that was just disgusting. However I want a guy like that to take his medicine and serve notice to the rest of the league that if you want to run guys on our team you will pay for it. And in the end they did give us what we want 2 points.

Its tough though, where is the line? I DESPISE when there is a huge clean hit and the guy has to fight right away because of it.
- Gunner Staal

I despise it too, but it keeps the stars protected. What we are seeing right now is the worst of both worlds. The NHL is sending a message that they want to be the ones handling the punishment, not the players; but then the NHL isnt consistent in doling out punishment. So now the players dont jump in(which is why the NYI-Pitt brawl last yr was rare), and the NHL doesnt do much. The only ones losing are the guys getting hit who are supposed to be the ones being protected.
Look at the NFL, they want to protect QB's so rules were put in place to do so and are enforced(sometimes too much so), but they do enforce it.

It was stupid for Carcillo to "answer the bell" years ago because he had nothing to answer for in that series. Nystrom and even Ott did last night

My question is this. Why would Nystrom drop them, giving the Pens what they wanted, and giving them more momentum/energy?

I understand as a hockey fan, the thought process of "answering the bell" per se. However, sometimes I think players can be really stupid by dropping the gloves when the opposition wants it, and with doing so, normally changes the momentum.

As much as the Pens and their fans wanted him to do so.....I dont know that I would say Nystrom "cowered away from it."

Just like Ott not dropping them with Asham. I see the Pens side, but looking at the other side....why would he give the Pens what they want?

I think back to the Pens vs Flyers in the playoffs a few yrs ago as a prime example of my thought process. The Flyers were up by a few goals in the game, IIRC Talbot wanted Carcillo to drop the gloves- he does, and the Pens came roaring back in that game. To me, it was STUPID of Carcillo to "answer the bell".
- Bren4Wings

Most of us see both sides too. "Cowered away from..." or "refused to fight" or "wisely avoided indulging the opposition" ...however you want to say it....I certainly don't blame him for not accepting the invitation to fight later in the game after the incident. That underscores my point though: if you're going to insist on extracting a pound of his flesh for the hit, do it immediately after it happens and don't give him the opportunity to turn down a fight. If you (in this case the Pens) wait until later in the game, it's pointless, especially in a close game.

I despise it too, but it keeps the stars protected. What we are seeing right now is the worst of both worlds. The NHL is sending a message that they want to be the ones handling the punishment, not the players; but then the NHL isnt consistent in doling out punishment. So now the players dont jump in(which is why the NYI-Pitt brawl last yr was rare), and the NHL doesnt do much. The only ones losing are the guys getting hit who are supposed to be the ones being protected.
Look at the NFL, they want to protect QB's so rules were put in place to do so and are enforced(sometimes too much so), but they do enforce it.
- Rawdog9755

Even Roger Goddell doesn't want to watch Curtis Painter.

What we are suggesting is he either drops them and defends himself or just receives a beating with his gloves on. And if you read threw the rest of the posts it looks like we are split on the hit. I didn't like it but I don't think it is one that was just disgusting. However I want a guy like that to take his medicine and serve notice to the rest of the league that if you want to run guys on our team you will pay for it.
- dbell646

Fair enough. I didnt go back and read through all the posts.

As a Wings fan, I think back to the Draper/Claude ordeal, and McCarty didnt give him a choice, and to me, Claude "cowered"-more aptly, turtled. So I get where Pen fans are coming from, especially with a player as important as Letang.

On the hit, I am still trying to figure out how the refs could call "Roughing", when you look at the actual rule-it doesnt fit.

It's not often I agree with JR, but I did in this case. If that was Lidstrom in place of Letang--as much as I would hate it, I dont see how its suspendable. His elbow was down and in, Letang had just played the puck, it wasnt a blind side hit, it wasnt from behind. There are dozens of plays EVERY night in the league where a player doesnt go for the puck, but goes for the hit instead- or a Dman just played the puck and gets hit.

It was stupid for Carcillo to "answer the bell" years ago because he had nothing to answer for in that series. Nystrom and even Ott did last night
- Deadstar

2 very different situations I'm confused to why he used that as an example. 1 it was playoffs which guys don't tend to fight in those games and Carcillo was just stupid and likes to fight.

Kunitz or someone on the ice at the time should have lit Nystrom up as soon as it happened and not given him a chance to duck out of the fight. The Pens tried to engage him the rest of the came. He cowered away from it.
- akane13

I was actually surprised that it was Martin who gave Nystrom the first shot right after the hit, with a pretty healthy two hander. Obviously Martin isn't going to fight anyone, but it was nice to see a litte emotion out of #7.

Fair enough. I didnt go back and read through all the posts.

As a Wings fan, I think back to the Draper/Claude ordeal, and McCarty didnt give him a choice, and to me, Claude "cowered"-more aptly, turtled. So I get where Pen fans are coming from, especially with a player as important as Letang.

On the hit, I am still trying to figure out how the refs could call "Roughing", when you look at the actual rule-it doesnt fit.

It's not often I agree with JR, but I did in this case. If that was Lidstrom in place of Letang--as much as I would hate it, I dont see how its suspendable. His elbow was down and in, Letang had just played the puck, it wasnt a blind side hit, it wasnt from behind. There are dozens of plays EVERY night in the league where a player doesnt go for the puck, but goes for the hit instead- or a Dman just played the puck and gets hit.
- Bren4Wings

It's the NHL. It's a wonder they didn't call it a Bench Minor or Goaltender Interference.

Its tough though, where is the line? I DESPISE when there is a huge clean hit and the guy has to fight right away because of it.
- Gunner Staal

So do I in a sense. I hate when some dime a dozen 4th liner like Tom Wadell (Dallas) gets lit up and suddenly you have the fight over that. But if it is a player of Letang, Crosby, Malkin, Neal or Staals value then there better be a fight.

Someone mentioned Gretzky and McSorely. That was how they did it, if a 4th liner for the Oilers got smeared, no one cared except that 4th liner and he could fight his own battle. But if someone through a hit like that on Gretzky it was a different thing altogether.

Fight for the stars, let the plugs fight their own battles.

Fair enough. I didnt go back and read through all the posts.

As a Wings fan, I think back to the Draper/Claude ordeal, and McCarty didnt give him a choice, and to me, Claude "cowered"-more aptly, turtled. So I get where Pen fans are coming from, especially with a player as important as Letang.

On the hit, I am still trying to figure out how the refs could call "Roughing", when you look at the actual rule-it doesnt fit.

It's not often I agree with JR, but I did in this case. If that was Lidstrom in place of Letang--as much as I would hate it, I dont see how its suspendable. His elbow was down and in, Letang had just played the puck, it wasnt a blind side hit, it wasnt from behind. There are dozens of plays EVERY night in the league where a player doesnt go for the puck, but goes for the hit instead- or a Dman just played the puck and gets hit.
- Bren4Wings

The elbow being tucked doesnt matter anymore. After the Cooke hit on Savard(elbow down), the rule was written to emphasize the point of contact no matter how a player is hit.
Ill also point to the Engelland hit on Kruger earlier in the season. Engelland got 3 games even though Kruger was reaching for a puck along the boards and had lowered himself. Shanahan states that the fact he received a concussion was taken into account, and despite being lined up for a potentially clean check Engelland made the head the principal point of contact.
http://www.sbnation.com/n...n-pittsburgh-penguins-nhl

Alot of the onus can go on the way the refs call the game, if a ref can't keep control, or decides to ref the score of the game. Liberties will continue to be taken and get worse

I was actually surprised that it was Martin who gave Nystrom the first shot right after the hit, with a pretty healthy two hander. Obviously Martin isn't going to fight anyone, but it was nice to see a litte emotion out of #7.
- rival22

Maybe Martin was instantly mad about the prospect of playing with Z again.

Maybe Martin was instantly mad about the prospect of playing with Z again.
- akane13

That was a good one

The elbow being tucked doesnt matter anymore. After the Cooke hit on Savard(elbow down), the rule was written to emphasize the point of contact no matter how a player is hit.
Ill also point to the Engelland hit on Kruger earlier in the season. Engelland got 3 games even though Kruger was reaching for a puck along the boards and had lowered himself. Shanahan states that the fact he received a concussion was taken into account, and despite being lined up for a potentially clean check Engelland made the head the principal point of contact.
http://www.sbnation.com/n...n-pittsburgh-penguins-nhl
- Rawdog9755

From NHL.com:
At 9:55 of the first period, Letang was reaching to play the puck as he approached the corner to the right of his own net. Nystrom appeared to hit Letang in the chest or shoulder, sending him straight to the ice

"It's clear that Engelland launched his body up into the head of Kruger as Shanahan states, making the head the "principal point of contact," a violation of Rule 48. " From the link you provided.

48.1 Illegal Check to the Head – A hit resulting in contact with an opponent's head where the head is targeted and the principal point of contact is not permitted. However, in determining whether such a hit should have been permitted, the circumstances of the hit, including whether the opponent put himself in a vulnerable position immediately prior to or simultaneously with the hit or the head contact on an otherwise legal body check was avoidable, can be considered

48.2 Minor Penalty - For violation of this rule, a minor penalty shall be assessed.

The penalty on the play was for "roughing".
NHL.com says appears the hit was to the chest /shoulder-not head.
The rule states "including whether the opponent put himself in a vulnerable position immediately prior to or simultaneously"-which Letang did.

Mike Heika ‏ @MikeHeika Close
I'm hearing there will be no discipline to Eric Nystrom. It's tricky, because NHL will not announce that, they will just say nothing.

Mike Heika ‏ @MikeHeika Close
I'm hearing there will be no discipline to Eric Nystrom. It's tricky, because NHL will not announce that, they will just say nothing.
- Gunner Staal

No suprise, thought they might wait to see if Letang was concussed first, before making the final decision

From NHL.com:
At 9:55 of the first period, Letang was reaching to play the puck as he approached the corner to the right of his own net. Nystrom appeared to hit Letang in the chest or shoulder, sending him straight to the ice

"It's clear that Engelland launched his body up into the head of Kruger as Shanahan states, making the head the "principal point of contact," a violation of Rule 48. " From the link you provided.

48.1 Illegal Check to the Head – A hit resulting in contact with an opponent's head where the head is targeted and the principal point of contact is not permitted. However, in determining whether such a hit should have been permitted, the circumstances of the hit, including whether the opponent put himself in a vulnerable position immediately prior to or simultaneously with the hit or the head contact on an otherwise legal body check was avoidable, can be considered

48.2 Minor Penalty - For violation of this rule, a minor penalty shall be assessed.

The penalty on the play was for "roughing".
NHL.com says appears the hit was to the chest /shoulder-not head.
The rule states "including whether the opponent put himself in a vulnerable position immediately prior to or simultaneously"-which Letang did.
- Bren4Wings

There is a difference between the 2 hits as Engelland does leave his feet on the follow through as he drives up into his head. I agree with you there, so ill concede I didnt use the best example, had a hard time finding one where a player gets low.
I do disagree with the contact being made with shoulder/chest. http://thepensblog.com/tp...rt-of-texas-pens-win.html
Shows clear contact with the head on impact. The debatable part is making himself vulnerable. If Nystrom tries to play the puck and collides, then fine. My problem is he makes no attempt at the puck after seeing Letang is going for the puck. It is a gray area at best, and I can understand how no suspension or fine would be levied. Its just getting really frustrating to continually watch stars go down at the hands of hits like this. If the NHL is trying to change the culture, then go overboard to prove a point like the NFL. I may disagree with some of the fines on Harrison, but at least a point is being made and guys are being forced to change.

Where is KGR or Nh, we need to get a positive distraction going...ala fossil girl.

Where is KGR or Nh, we need to get a positive distraction going...ala fossil girl.
- Rawdog9755

yeah... its going to be tough to tallk anything hockey that isnt concussion related yet again now...

yeah... its going to be tough to tallk anything hockey that isnt concussion related yet again now...
- stayinthefnnet

My new reel showed up last night, it was like a late xmas. The quantum reel really has a low profile on the spool. I was a bit surprised how short it is compared to some of my abu garcia spinning reels.

My new reel showed up last night, it was like a late xmas. The quantum reel really has a low profile on the spool. I was a bit surprised how short it is compared to some of my abu garcia spinning reels.
- Rawdog9755

haha im sure half of the gear you use would go way over my head. although i am a fan of quantum