And, even just counting since Europeans started to play in North America in large numbers (after the fall of the USSR), that leaves what? 18 teams who weren't?

Again, I don't see how a European player captaining a cup winning team (composed mostly of Canadians, anyway) somehow negates any and all preference one can have for his countrymen.

Is it going to be considered oh-so-brutish to openly cheer for your country at the Olympics one day?
- Leeman4Gilmour

You are weird.

Mind = Blown
- Pecafan Fan

Remarkable some of the stuff people put up on these threads

I still remember Burke telling the media he was going to trade the islanders for the 1rst overall pick to draft Taveras before the drat took place lol................

Snow was like WTF who is this guy.......

Burke likes to hear himself talk repeating the same garbage all the time.
- duckyjets

and that differentiates Burke from other major market GMs by what?

We got good prospects, looks like unless Mac and Kulimen come back next year proving everybody wrong then we over rated our team and we need to wait for our prospect to develop. If so a Kulimen Franson and Percy for B.Schenn and low end prospect. Ashton/Frattin-Schenn-Kadri seems like a sick second line in like 2/3 years.

whats the buzz???


tell me whats a happenin'

Again, I fail to see what is so controversial about suggesting that a shrinking pool of population to draw from will cause there to be a decline in the output of quality hockey players (or any profession) from these countries.

I'm aware that Canada doesn't have great birth rates, either, but that is why I said the gap will likely be closed by Americans, if anyone. The fruits of the American hockey movement are already beginning to be seen.

whats the buzz???


tell me whats a happenin'
- robin_steele264

Canadians are the best in hockey
Europeans suck at making babies
Americans have the best fruits

Canadians are the best in hockey
Europeans suck at making babies
Americans have the best fruits
- Jayden

Everyone knows that.

Europeans don't have enough children to continue to be a hockey super power.

Americans will probably fill the gap, as they still have the highest birthrates in the western world (of the established hockey nations).

You can already start to see the gains in NCAA hockey and the products of the US development system.

I don't buy this European explosion for a second. And even if they do close the gap, it will be because, as you said, "they (europeans) are choosing to come to NA and progress their skill playing our style of game."

That seems to imply some superiority of Canadians over the rest of the world when it comes to hockey.
- Leeman4Gilmour

where to begin...

demographics ... you can't just look at the blank numbers - how much of the growth in the US is within the hispanic and asian populations, not exactly a hockey rich history there... unless you happen to look at outlying individuals such as Paul Kariya and Scott Gomez, and how much of that growth is in the southern states where hockey has historically not been a large market player... think NASCAR, baseball and football across the southern part of the US

The superiority of the Canadian hockey player arguement has to be a lot more sophisticated than just a few vague stereotypes.

Okay....... Canada 11.3 births per 1000

I'll just list one here to refute your theory

Russia...... 11.8 births per 1000


Should I list the rest of Europe too for your very very flawed theory??
- faceto27

Don't know where you got those numbers, but there are only about 20 countries in the world experiencing what demographers call "natural population decline"

http://geography.about.co...ationgeography/a/zero.htm

Russia is projected to lose one fifth of it's population by mid-century.

If you've ever seen a population pyramid (a diagram that depicts changes in the population generation over generation), you'd recognize that Russia has an inverted pyramid. Each generation does not even have enough children to sustain the decrease in population from people dying.

The whole crisis in Greece is based around the fact that they are approaching the point at which ever smaller generations cannot sustain the ever-increasing entitlements of larger, older generations (let alone support them AND pay off a massive debt).

Study demography and you'll gain a new perspective on the world.

Again, I fail to see what is so controversial about suggesting that a shrinking pool of population to draw from will cause there to be a decline in the output of quality hockey players (or any profession) from these countries.

I'm aware that Canada doesn't have great birth rates, either, but that is why I said the gap will likely be closed by Americans, if anyone. The fruits of the American hockey movement are already beginning to be seen.
- Leeman4Gilmour

Try using actual population. To which Canada is outnumbered by quite a bit if you use the populations from all european hockey playing nations, now add the USA into the mix, and their population, and the money, time and interest they are now putting into the game, and if you still believe in 10-20 years that Canada will still be far superior to the rest of the world as you think we have in the past, then there is a reason you are a leaf fan.

Don't know where you got those numbers, but there are only about 20 countries in the world experiencing what demographers call "natural population decline"

http://geography.about.co...ationgeography/a/zero.htm

Russia is projected to lose one fifth of it's population by mid-century.

If you've ever seen a population pyramid (a diagram that depicts changes in the population generation over generation), you'd recognize that Russia has an inverted pyramid. Each generation does not even have enough children to sustain the decrease in population from people dying.

The whole crisis in Greece is based around the fact that they are approaching the point at which ever smaller generations cannot sustain the ever-increasing entitlements of larger, older generations (let alone support them AND pay off a massive debt).

Study demography and you'll gain a new perspective on the world.
- Leeman4Gilmour

It doesnt help you out very much in a hockey convo, i can tell you that...

where to begin...

demographics ... you can't just look at the blank numbers - how much of the growth in the US is within the hispanic and asian populations, not exactly a hockey rich history there... unless you happen to look at outlying individuals such as Paul Kariya and Scott Gomez, and how much of that growth is in the southern states where hockey has historically not been a large market player... think NASCAR, baseball and football across the southern part of the US

The superiority of the Canadian hockey player arguement has to be a lot more sophisticated than just a few vague stereotypes.
- BorjeFan4Ever

Sure.

Then we can look at international play, proportion of Canadians to other nationalities in the NHL (and on cup winning teams), and international reputation.

I had no idea that suggesting Canada produced the world's best hockey players would kick off such a hell storm. Nobody around here would have disagreed in 2010 in Vancouver.

In fact, in my original statement, I didn't even go that far. This all began when I said I prefer North American style power forwards for their style of play. And, given the evidence for the superiority of North American power forwards (both in number and in quality), I really don't see why some people seem to have such a visceral reaction to that claim.

The North American style of game produces better power forwards than anywhere else. If that's the debate, then could somebody address that?

Try using actual population. To which Canada is outnumbered by quite a bit if you use the populations from all european hockey playing nations, now add the USA into the mix, and their population, and the money, time and interest they are now putting into the game, and if you still believe in 10-20 years that Canada will still be far superior to the rest of the world as you think we have in the past, then there is a reason you are a leaf fan.
- shinebox

What evidence are you basing these projected long term trends on?

In fact, in international play lately, Canada is actually trending upwards.

Furthermore, why do you assume that the rest of the world will continue to invest more and more resources into hockey while Canada stands pat?

Don't know where you got those numbers, but there are only about 20 countries in the world experiencing what demographers call "natural population decline"

http://geography.about.co...ationgeography/a/zero.htm

Russia is projected to lose one fifth of it's population by mid-century.

If you've ever seen a population pyramid (a diagram that depicts changes in the population generation over generation), you'd recognize that Russia has an inverted pyramid. Each generation does not even have enough children to sustain the decrease in population from people dying.

The whole crisis in Greece is based around the fact that they are approaching the point at which ever smaller generations cannot sustain the ever-increasing entitlements of larger, older generations (let alone support them AND pay off a massive debt).

Study demography and you'll gain a new perspective on the world.
- Leeman4Gilmour

Wikipedia

Stop with your argument, it is fatally flawed. Seriously just stop

What evidence are you basing these projected long term trends on?

In fact, in international play lately, Canada is actually trending upwards.

Furthermore, why do you assume that the rest of the world will continue to invest more and more resources into hockey while Canada stands pat?
- Leeman4Gilmour

Common sense, sorry if it eludes you.

Sure.

Then we can look at international play, proportion of Canadians to other nationalities in the NHL (and on cup winning teams), and international reputation.

I had no idea that suggesting Canada produced the world's best hockey players would kick off such a hell storm. Nobody around here would have disagreed in 2010 in Vancouver.

In fact, in my original statement, I didn't even go that far. This all began when I said I prefer North American style power forwards for their style of play. And, given the evidence for the superiority of North American power forwards (both in number and in quality), I really don't see why some people seem to have such a visceral reaction to that claim.

The North American style of game produces better power forwards than anywhere else. If that's the debate, then could somebody address that?
- Leeman4Gilmour

this all began when you started to categorize Galenchuyck as a European, when in fact he was born and raised in Chicago. he has never ever played european hockey. You categorized merely by looking at his name......... that is what is called racial profiling, even though its not being racist.

You franked up....... own up to it. And stop

this all began when you started to categorize Galenchuyck as a European, when in fact he was born and raised in Chicago. he has never ever played european hockey. You categorized merely by looking at his name......... that is what is called racial profiling, even though its not being racist.

You franked up....... own up to it. And stop
- faceto27

Common sense, sorry if it eludes you.
- shinebox

We have won two Olympic golds in the past 3 tournaments.

We have finished first or second 4 out of 6 Olympics since 1992. For comparison, in the 32 years between 1956 and 1988, we only medalled three times (two bronze and a silver).

Despite two silvers and a bronze in recent World Junior Championships, Canada won every tournament from 2005-2009, a record run. This came after a 7 year period in which we failed to finsih any higher than second.

In IIHF World Championship play, no country could be said to be dominant in recent years. Ity's actually fairly unpredicatble (probably given the low priority the elite players give to it during the NHL regular season).

this all began when you started to categorize Galenchuyck as a European, when in fact he was born and raised in Chicago. he has never ever played european hockey. You categorized merely by looking at his name......... that is what is called racial profiling, even though its not being racist.

You franked up....... own up to it. And stop
- faceto27

this all began when you started to categorize Galenchuyck as a European, when in fact he was born and raised in Chicago. he has never ever played european hockey. You categorized merely by looking at his name......... that is what is called racial profiling, even though its not being racist.

You franked up....... own up to it. And stop
- faceto27

"Galchenyuk’s father, also named Alex, was a veteran of the Russian Super League, the precursor to the Kontinental League. After years playing for Dynamo Moscow, he headed to Milwaukee in 1992 to play for the minor-league Admirals. During his stint, Alex junior was born. Stops around the Midwest and then Europe followed, before the family returned to Russia."

http://www.thehockeynews....atch-Alex-Galchenyuk.html

He is the son of a Russian hockey player who spent much of his youth living in Russia. His family would have lived there since he was 4 years old.

"Galchenyuk’s father, also named Alex, was a veteran of the Russian Super League, the precursor to the Kontinental League. After years playing for Dynamo Moscow, he headed to Milwaukee in 1992 to play for the minor-league Admirals. During his stint, Alex junior was born. Stops around the Midwest and then Europe followed, before the family returned to Russia."

http://www.thehockeynews....atch-Alex-Galchenyuk.html

He is the son of a Russian hockey player who spent much of his youth living in Russia. His family would have lived there since he was 4 years old.
- Leeman4Gilmour

And Gretzky's grandfather was Russian, clearly Gretz was Russian.

And Gretzky's grandfather was Russian, clearly Gretz was Russian.
- shinebox

Except that we're talking about a player whose formative years were spent in the Russian system, learning a style of game that I don't think translates well to the NHL.

The thing is, you're construing what I'm saying completely backwards by assuming that I have some sort of prejudice against the guy for who he is. Not at all.

My beef isn't with the individual, it's with the style and philosophy of game he has learned.

If a Russian came to Canada and was cultivated from a young age in our system, then great. Like I said, my concern has nothing to do with where the individual comes from; my concern is for what he has learned while there.

Now, it very well might be that he has spent enough time learning the North American style of game that he could succeed in the NHL, but that remains to be seen. But, on the whole, I feel that Europe does not generally produce power forwards as well as North America.

Except that we're talking about a player whose formative years were spent in the Russian system, learning a style of game that I don't think translates well to the NHL.

The thing is, you're construing what I'm saying completely backwards by assuming that I have some sort of prejudice against the guy for who he is. Not at all.

My beef isn't with the individual, it's with the style and philosophy of game he has learned.

If a Russian came to Canada and was cultivated from a young age in our system, then great. Like I said, my concern has nothing to do with where the individual comes from; my concern is for what he has learned while there.

Now, it very well might be that he has spent enough time learning the North American style of game that he could succeed in the NHL, but that remains to be seen. But, on the whole, I feel that Europe does not generally produce power forwards as well as North America.
- Leeman4Gilmour

What i believe is you are too obtuse to get is the fact that Europeans were playing great hockey long before they played in the NHL. And you can check out the stats online wherever you want with regards to international competition, the rest is you talking out your ass and being an absolute moron a la Don Cherry.

What i believe is you are too obtuse to get is the fact that Europeans were playing great hockey long before they played in the NHL. And you can check out the stats online wherever you want with regards to international competition, the rest is you talking out your ass and being an absolute moron a la Don Cherry.
- shinebox