The picks are good , its what they did to the kids after that has been the problem
- jiri_crha

No it's not. They threw Schenn right in the fire to develop at the NHL level and they've babied Kadri for 3+ years so far. Two vastly different way to handle the kids, two similar results.

[

Where does this insanity end? At some point, you have to put the work into cultivating your own talent. Every team that has successfully done that has had one thing we lack: patience.

I think the lack of Patience comes from Burkies coments when he took the job

Damphousse
- faceto27

Exactly - Damphousse. If the Leafs didn't make the Kessel trade and chose Seguin #2 that year he would've been a bust.

Reimer wasn't terrible last night, he just didn't make any big saves to keep the team in the game. You would expect an NHL goalie to make at least a couple of saves that are huge. I don't think that's Wilson's fault, I think Reimer has to take the responsibility, handle the pressure and play better.

And I am not interested if he starts playing well again when we are 8 points out with 5 games to go. He needs to produce now or it's clear we need to go in a different direction.
- Rang

I agree that Reimer hasn't been on top of his game, but I think the bigger question is: why?

Why has a goalie who looked so good last year, early this year, and even late into January suddenly fallen apart?

Wilson's routine of throwing guys under the bus certainly isn't helping. But even more importantly, it's simply become clear that each player, at an individual level, lacks the motivation and confidence to win.

The team, as a whole, is packing it in. They've quit on their coach. To single out one guy as the entire team falls apart is foolhardy and a recipe for ruining yet another promosing prospect.

Okay let me rephrase........ where would you rank him inn the class of 2008 now that we've seen most of them play
- faceto27

why bother? everything is clearer in hindsight

but since you asked i would of taken karlsson for his point production, however.. then you'd need a schenn to compliment him.. karlsson isnt the most defensively efficient guy in the world

i still stand by this:
the problem with the leafs isnt the players.. its the system wilson is trying to run

Wilson is done.

I don't agree that he is the problem in Toronto I think Burke has put a small team together and its his fault.

When Wilson was in SanJose he was a great coach.

Look at the players they have and ask your self is this coaching or is this the GM?

Schenn is a turnover machine. He was hugely over hyped.

Komisarek was a horrible signing.

Both Goalies suck-Burke took a chance on theses guys without a suitable back up.

The back end is Horrible on the Leafs all there goals scored are ussualy from giveaways.

The forwards can score but its all generated off the rush. They have one 1-2 guys that are grinders the rest are as soft as they come.

It sounds like Burkes model is the Boston Bruins and he didn't follow it at all.

toronto fans are typically impatient.. ride it out and end up with a solid mid pairing d-man in 3 years (when stay at home guys hit their stride (mid twenties)
- Dozzer

Three more years of giveaways???

why bother? everything is clearer in hindsight

but since you asked i would of taken karlsson for his point production, however.. then you'd need a schenn to compliment him.. karlsson isnt the most defensively efficient guy in the world

i still stand by this:
the problem with the leafs isnt the players.. its the system wilson is trying to run
- Dozzer

Maybe in the past. But this season, he looks pretty good in his own end. He was out there last night in the last minute with the Bruins playing 6 on 4 in a 1 goal game.

Kid is unreal.

The last one of the season reads:


Leaf fans rejoice: With the 3rd pick in the 2012 NHL entry draft....
- weirdoh

Please!

EDM will take Murray at #2 leaving the Leafs with Grigorenko (17, 6'3/200, 39g/79pts in 51gms for Les Ramparts this year). Even if they end up with #5 or #6, they could land Filip Forsberg, the top ranked Euro.

I think the lack of Patience comes from Burkies coments when he took the job
- jiri_crha

Oh, c'mon.

The fan base has nobody to blame for their lack of patience but themselves. Burke doesn't tell you how to think, does he? Can he control minds now? (Although it would explain some of the sweet trades he's made over the years)

Leafs fans can't cry about the organization never rebuilding with youth when we lack patience, as well. If you think that the Leafs were too eager to trade youth away before, just imagine if the average Leafs fan was in charge...

Wilson is done.

I don't agree that he is the problem in Toronto I think Burke has put a small team together and its his fault.

When Wilson was in SanJose he was a great coach.

Look at the players they have and ask your self is this coaching or is this the GM?

Schenn is a turnover machine. He was hugely over hyped.

Komisarek was a horrible signing.

Both Goalies suck-Burke took a chance on theses guys without a suitable back up.

The back end is Horrible on the Leafs all there goals scored are ussualy from giveaways.

The forwards can score but its all generated off the rush. They have one 1-2 guys that are grinders the rest are as soft as they come.

It sounds like Burkes model is the Boston Bruins and he didn't follow it at all.
- duckyjets

You make some valid points, but I think it was the SJ players that made Wilson look like a good coach, but he still could never win the big prize. 1,400 regular season games coached, 1 finals appearance, 0 cups.

It's frustrating to read these boards some days, for sure.

"Wah wah wah, we traded away all our youth... wah wah wah.... Boyes for Nolan... I want Steen back, I want Rask back..."

Then the very next post:

"Schenn is the Anti-Christ!!!! INSERT 22-23 YEAR OLD HERE is a bust!!!! Trade everything we have for anything we can get!!!"

I love the idea of trading Schenn, Reimer, etc for picks. What's the point? So we can go back to the drafting board and do it all over again? Pick another guy who we will once again trade for picks if he struggles in his first 3-4 seasons?

Where does this insanity end? At some point, you have to put the work into cultivating your own talent. Every team that has successfully done that has had one thing we lack: patience.
- Leeman4Gilmour

Its the winning strategy...trade Schenn, Kadri, Grabo, Kule and Reimer for picks...and maybe get half their talent back. Its genius...the grass will always be greener. Its like having 7 scrabble titles "E, T, N, A, R, S, H" and thinking....well there good but not great so lets dump them all and try again. Next time Ill get better letters for sure.

We have a struggling freakn team...with two inexperienced goalies and one old coach who cant seem to figure out what needs to be done to solve our problems. We have vets on the team who have been playing for years who have been sucking and not picking it up and showing the kids the ropes...we have a captain who has arguably been the worst defensemen now for awhile and yet we throw our younger players under the bus.

Makes sense to me. Im not happy about it either...but Im not going to explode and blame everything on a few players. We need a vet goalie to help Reimer for the long run. We need some more vet leadership, we need a better coach and we need a centerman. Its going to take time and its going to be tough. But we are not a playoff team, and we are likely another 2 years away from being a competive one, at least.

sad that hes been given up on so far....as if hes been playing for a strong team with a strong system and support. No...he hasnt...but sure
- noename09

Luke Schenn stats
GP G A P PIM +/-
231 12 41 53 155 -11

Adam Foote at same age
GP G A P PIM +/-
127 6 17 23 212 1

Considering Quebec was a playoff team and 20 games over .500 during Foote's only full year there i think statistically it's a good comparison.

Oh, c'mon.

The fan base has nobody to blame for their lack of patience but themselves. Burke doesn't tell you how to think, does he? Can he control minds now? (Although it would explain some of the sweet trades he's made over the years)

Leafs fans can't cry about the organization never rebuilding with youth when we lack patience, as well. If you think that the Leafs were too eager to trade youth away before, just imagine if the average Leafs fan was in charge...


- Leeman4Gilmour

I have wanted a draft rebuild for 30 years. But when you say tht it wont take 5 years people expect you to make good on it

Okay let me rephrase........ where would you rank him inn the class of 2008 now that we've seen most of them play
- faceto27

who cares!?

Hes not ready and the team he plays for stinks...its kinda hard to be a shinning light.

You make some valid points, but I think it was the SJ players that made Wilson look like a good coach, but he still could never win the big prize. 1,400 regular season games coached, 1 finals appearance, 0 cups.
- 1979AD

He did win the World Cup

He said he hes shares and hasnt made a dime in 5 years
- jiri_crha

....5 year charts for rogers....

RCI:A



RCI:B

Its the winning strategy...trade Schenn, Kadri, Grabo, Kule and Reimer for picks...and maybe get half their talent back. Its genius...the grass will always be greener. Its like having 7 scrabble titles "E, T, N, A, R, S, H" and thinking....well there good but not great so lets dump them all and try again. Next time Ill get better letters for sure.

We have a struggling freakn team...with two inexperienced goalies and one old coach who cant seem to figure out what needs to be done to solve our problems. We have vets on the team who have been playing for years who have been sucking and not picking it up and showing the kids the ropes...we have a captain who has argualbly been the worst defensemen now for awhile and yet we throw our younger players under the bus.

Makes sense to me. Im not happy about it either...but Im not going to explode and blame everything on a few players. We need a vet goalie to help Reimer for the long run. We need some more vet leadership, we need a better coach and we need a centerman. Its going to take time and its going to be tough. But we are not a playoff team, and we are likely another 2 years away from being a competive one, at least.
- noename09

I'll play you scrabble

please, for the love of god.

How many defenders of his ilk have done extremely well in the history of the NHL by the age of 22. Look em up, for all those who hate.
- noename09

he's a kid.. and still about 3 years away from when defensemen like him hit their stride

its a maturity thing, not an experience thing

The last one of the season reads:


Leaf fans rejoice: With the 3rd pick in the 2012 NHL entry draft....
- weirdoh

What Burke should have done is rejuvenated the sorry excuse for a "rebuild" and taken some of those offers for first round picks coming back. Keep cornerstones like Phaneuf and Kessel, keep emerging talent like Schenn, but listen to solid offers for almost anyone else.

You guys could have several first round picks this year, but I agree yours might be fairly high. You guys still own your pick this year right?

He did win the World Cup
- faceto27

haha touche

Wilson is done.

I don't agree that he is the problem in Toronto I think Burke has put a small team together and its his fault.

When Wilson was in SanJose he was a great coach.

Look at the players they have and ask your self is this coaching or is this the GM?
Schenn is a turnover machine. He was hugely over hyped.

Komisarek was a horrible signing.

Both Goalies suck-Burke took a chance on theses guys without a suitable back up.

The back end is Horrible on the Leafs all there goals scored are ussualy from giveaways.

The forwards can score but its all generated off the rush. They have one 1-2 guys that are grinders the rest are as soft as they come.

It sounds like Burkes model is the Boston Bruins and he didn't follow it at all.
- duckyjets

So, what you're saying is that when Wilson is handed a great team, he's a decent coach.

Cool. What happens when he's given a roster like Phoenix? Or Ottawa?

Those teams are coached by men who get great results out of what they have and don't complain becuase they don't have every single thing on their wish list.

Give this team an elite goalie, a 6'4" 80+ point centre, a better bottom six, and another top six winger (or whatever else people claim we need) and yeah, Wilson would probably get better results.

Hell, he might even get them into the playoffs.

But, quite frankly, if the roster needs to be that good for the coach to look like he's doing his job properly, then there's a problem with the coach.

Far better coaches have gotten far more out of less.

Three more years of giveaways???



- faceto27

yes.. thats why called player development

stop expecting kids to be cornerstone all stars

want to pick on somebody's poor play look at the captain. he's at a stage in his career where he needs to be answerable for his flubs

Bullpoop

you saw something scouts for 20 NHL teams did not?

Eberle was a surprise. He was too small and to slow (at the time) to be taken that high
- Big_Lightnin

You take a snap shot and it's a funny image of that draft. Doughty, Boghosian and Schenn were all can't miss picks and are all struggling to some degree while Myers (has struggled as well), Karlsson, Del Zotto, Carlson and Gardiner are all having greater ''success" then some of them.

The haters use the word 'better' too often. Some of those guys are having greater success than Schenn for sure ...but why? We've seen Schenn play well but he just can't seem to find that level of confidence to do it every night.

Luke Schenn stats
GP G A P PIM +/-
231 12 41 53 155 -11

Adam Foote at same age
GP G A P PIM +/-
127 6 17 23 212 1

Considering Quebec was a playoff team and 20 games over .500 during Foote's only full year there i think statistically it's a good comparison.
- ky678468

Trade him for a pick as soon as possible....hes a bust. He should single handedly bring this team into the playoffs....he IS afterall a first round pick.