Crosby is toast... Ovechkin doesn't care anymore... Malkin has had his share of injuries... The future belongs to guys like Stamkos, Hall, Tavares, Hopkins, Eberle, Yakupov etc etc.
- laughs2907

Yakupov isnt in this list yet.

Sedins were league MVPs right? Just look at their stats when they were Hall/Eberle/Hopkin's/Gagner's age.
- laughs2907

Henrik was, they also didn't get any ice time when they were Hall/Eberle/Nuge's age.

Marleau isnt playing Center anymore..Thats all Pavelski and Couture.l
- poisondhearts37

I hear ya, but it's still a major mismatch against Gagner.

I think Murray has far too much upside to pass him up for a guy like Fowler. Granted Fowler has upside, and he's good... I just think Murray has way more upside. I'd be insanely pissed if Tambo traded our pick for Fowler.
- laughs2907

I don't know about large discrepancies in upside. Murray has played on a pretty poopty team, so who knows how good offensively he could be with a more talented supporting cast. Then again, the pick could be 4th or 5th overall when Murray's off the board so it's not necessarily a Murray for Fowler swap.

I'd love to coach against you. Zetteburgh, Kesler, Marleau, are in all likelyhood the 2nd line C that Gagner has to match against in the playoffs.
- whosyodaddy

And he'd still be on a line with Mike Richards, one of the best 2 way players in the league. Depending who he's on the other wing, I'm fine with that.

And I'd love to coach against you too. Since you didn't even know Marleau isn't used as a center in SJ, I doubt you'd study or know anything about my team prior to coaching them as well.

Yeah if they could do that deal you suggested.. with out a doubt I would jump on it. Or even if they could just work a deal involving Gags n double J Id do it.

I don't know about large discrepancies in upside. Murray has played on a pretty poopty team, so who knows how good offensively he could be with a more talented supporting cast. Then again, the pick could be 4th or 5th overall when Murray's off the board so it's not necessarily a Murray for Fowler swap.
- Jack-artist

I'd take Dumba over Fowler also. The first 5/6 players this year all seem pretty awesome to me.

Thoughts about Clouts' proposed trade while reading people's posts so far.
1)There is a large disconnect between what EDM and what anyone else figures Gagne and Hemsky are worth. I believe that if either of them are moved it is most likely that both sides' fans will feel they were ripped off.
2)Dean Lombardi sorta has his nuts in a vice. If he doesn't do something (ANYTHING) to improve what many (at the start of the season) pegged be a Cup contending team... they will miss the playoffs, and he and his coaching staff should deservedly lose their jobs for getting such awful results from such an excellent roster. Any deal he makes he must overpay for, and he must overpay to make a deal, and he must make a deal to keep his job. Even worse, other GMs know this. I'm sorry, but I just checked my magic 8 ball - it says Dean Lombardi gets pushed into a corner where no matter who he trades for he overpays drastically! It may be that the Kings as a franchise will be better off if he makes a comparitively minor overpayment for Hemsky than to blows his load on Nash (you're welcome for that mental picture)
Perhaps D.L. is best hired as the GM for a tanking team (hint, hint, Calgary. Did I say Calgary? I meant Columbus, I swear! Remove him once he has stocked the larders with prospects but before you are serious about a Cup run. Any thoughts?
- thefullnelson

Lombardi will not get fired if Kings do not make the playoffs, he has 2 more years on his contract.. See other post about AEG having to pay 2 GMS and 3 coaches if Lombardi were fired.

Unfortunately Dean will be around next year. Helene Elliot has said Dean has given AEG his vision of what they need to do in the off season. Sounds like has already resigned himself to the fact they are not going to turn into a scoring juggernaut this year no matter who they acquire.

After the season is over they will fire Jamie Kampon their PP coach, they will hire Bernie Nichols for that position.. System changes will be made and they will take a run, via trade or free agent signing, at getting a top line winger.

And Dubnyk has played what. 17 more games and allows 3 or more a game? Bern cant prove much playing behind quick who has a 1.87 gaa and a .930+ save. Playing time for him is gonna be hard to get. Esp with a coach who will give his starter 70games
- poisondhearts37

GAA can be heavily skewed by a good defense...how is L.A.'s defense...I'm pretty sure the Oil D blows.

And he'd still be on a line with Mike Richards, one of the best 2 way players in the league. Depending who he's on the other wing, I'm fine with that.

And I'd love to coach against you too. Since you didn't even know Marleau isn't used as a center in SJ, I doubt you'd study or know anything about my team prior to coaching them as well.
- mochoson

I wouldn't have to, you'd make silly trades like JJ and Bernier for Hemsky and Gagner.

I'd take Dumba over Fowler also. The first 5/6 players this year all seem pretty awesome to me.
- laughs2907

Id never take an established NHL player over a draft prospect.

Fowler and Murray are very similar. Both are Niedermyer clones.

Dumba is, essentially P.K Subban.

Both are going to be very good. You couldn't go wrong with either.

I can read stats on NHL.com too. Your talking about a 7-8 point discrepancy every year.

The fact that Gagner has remained this consistent and had to be one of the teams primary offensive weapons on statistically the worst team in the league over the past four years is amazing.

He doesn't even turn 23 until August. To say he's reached his ceiling is just retarded, sorry.

If you watched the guy actually play, you'd have quit while you were ahead.
- mochoson

I do watch hockey, lot's of it, I have seen Gagner play many times. What about his game makes you believe he will ever be a 60 point player. Just because he has been consistent doesn't make him an above average second line center. The guy goes completely invisible for long stretches of time, has done nothing in his career up until now to prove that he will ever become a better point producer. The guy scores 8 points in 1 game and all of a sudden you want to consider him a great player. When he proves he can score 20 goals a season, then we can talk.

How much higher do you seriously believe his ceiling is.

I wouldn't have to, you'd make silly trades like JJ and Bernier for Hemsky and Gagner.
- whosyodaddy

Find a post where I personally said I'd do that trade.

edit: heres a hint, dont bother. I didn't say that.

I'd take Dumba over Fowler also. The first 5/6 players this year all seem pretty awesome to me.
- laughs2907

That's pre-draft hype almost every year. Rinse, lather, repeat. I personally think some of these defensemen being ranked so high is due to a real lack of high end forwards.
But to each his own, I guess.

Id never take an established NHL player over a draft prospect.

Fowler and Murray are very similar. Both are Niedermyer clones.

Dumba is, essentially P.K Subban.

Both are going to be very good. You couldn't go wrong with either.
- mochoson

Like you said, depends on who it is.

Find a post where I personally said I'd do that trade.

edit: heres a hint, dont bother. I didn't say that.
- mochoson

You did say you didn't know what was so stupid about the trade, as LA clearly needs offense. You also keep extolling Gagner's virtues while putting down JJ. It seems to me you've been arguing in favor of it.

Considering JJ's career high in points is only 7 back of Gagner's, i'm not sure how much extra offense Gagner is going to add.

I do watch hockey, lot's of it, I have seen Gagner play many times. What about his game makes you believe he will ever be a 60 point player. Just because he has been consistent doesn't make him an above average second line center. The guy goes completely invisible for long stretches of time, has done nothing in his career up until now to prove that he will ever become a better point producer. The guy scores 8 points in 1 game and all of a sudden you want to consider him a great player. When he proves he can score 20 goals a season, then we can talk.

How much higher do you seriously believe his ceiling is.
- Mystery

I have no idea how high his ceiling is. He's 22. Some young scorers are just breaking into the NHL scoring 20 points on a 3rd line at that age.

Gagner essentially had 50 points as a rookie. So your telling me over the span of his career, its in no way possible that he scores on average an extra ten points as he matures?

I'm not gonna sit here and asses Gagner as a player. If you REALLY have seen him play, you'd know how talented he is. Every negative point about Gagner you mention would not elude any player his age stuck on such a bad team.

Again, if anything, its remarkable Gagner has yet to produce less then 40 points a season on such a bad team at his age.

You did say you didn't know what was so stupid about the trade, as LA clearly needs offense. You also keep extolling Gagner's virtues while putting down JJ. It seems to me you've been arguing in favor of it.

Considering JJ's career high in points is only 7 back of Gagner's, i'm not sure how much extra offense Gagner is going to add.
- whosyodaddy

It isn't that unrealistic of a trade. I'd add a pick if I was Edmonton, likely a conditional one based on if Hemsky resigns. That's it. Its a fair deal. That doesn't mean I do it personally.

Gagner is a forward who scores and at least is making strides in his defensive game. Jack Johnson is a defensemen who can't play a lick of d.

The bolded doesn't even make any sense. Gagner wouldn't be replacing Jack Johnson. Voynov would.

It isn't that unrealistic of a trade. I'd add a pick if I was Edmonton, likely a conditional one based on if Hemsky resigns. That's it. Its a fair deal. That doesn't mean I do it personally.

Gagner is a forward who scores and at least is making strides in his defensive game. Jack Johnson is a defensemen who can't play a lick of d.

The bolded doesn't even make any sense. Gagner wouldn't be replacing Jack Johnson. Voynov would.
- mochoson

That's the thing, the Kings have a group of young players who could come in and duplicate Johnson's mediocre performance.

It isn't that unrealistic of a trade. I'd add a pick if I was Edmonton, likely a conditional one based on if Hemsky resigns. That's it. Its a fair deal. That doesn't mean I do it personally.

Gagner is a forward who scores and at least is making strides in his defensive game. Jack Johnson is a defensemen who can't play a lick of d.

The bolded doesn't even make any sense. Gagner wouldn't be replacing Jack Johnson. Voynov would.
- mochoson

This is where we disagree. I think LA can do much better for the two players mentioned. Edmonton, not so much.

WOW!! Smells like someone opened up a bag of farts.

My bad.. its me. Damn bean paste.

That's the thing, the Kings have a group of young players who could come in and duplicate Johnson's mediocre performance.
- Jack-artist

I am absolutely baffled as to how Voynov is in the AHL. He is already superior to Johnson in terms of playing D.

Crosby is toast... Ovechkin doesn't care anymore... Malkin has had his share of injuries... The future belongs to guys like Stamkos, Hall, Tavares, Hopkins, Eberle, Yakupov etc etc.
- laughs2907

Crosby may be out this year but he will be back eventually. Ovechkin is eventually going back to being a 100 point player, he is just too good. Malkin is healthy and dominant. He is the best player in the league. Stamkos is close to being on the same level. Still a notch above everyone else. There is still the Sedin Twins as well. These can be elite players but it is too early to think they are guaranteed to be hart trophy candidates. Seguin should be in that discussion as well.

Id never take an established NHL player over a draft prospect.

Fowler and Murray are very similar. Both are Niedermyer clones.

Dumba is, essentially P.K Subban.

Both are going to be very good. You couldn't go wrong with either.
- mochoson

You'd never take an established player over a draft prospect?

That's the most retarded thing I've read on here.