I don't think you can justify injuries during the year as calling it a retooling year, since the GM, team, coach, etc. wasn't in that mindset at the beginning of the year.
- nhindian

What? When you play 6-9 rookies consistently the entire season - Couturier, Read, Bourdon, Holmstrom, Sestito, Rinaldo, Schenn, Zolnierczyk, Gustafsson - it is, pretty much by definition, a retool.

And you are an Islanders fan which makes your opinion not matter.
- Richieattack18

Let's not get into the "our" thread thing. Everyone on this site is welcome to comment on every thread as long as they stick to hockey and don't get personal.

Well all of what Timonen spoke about was to supposed to be gone from this team, with the so called culture change they had. This team was supposed to give it's all every game. Doesn't seem to be the case. And the perfect locker room might have some tension in it now. Like I've always said, losing creates problems in the room. That's the way it's always been.
- MJL

"Told you so...told you so...". Give it a break with the Richards/Carter stuff already. The Rangers are a better team. The Flyers were in every game against the Rangers this year. Timonen is trying to fire up the team for today's game. I think, in hindsight, most Flyers fans feel the team was improved by the moves made over the summer.

"Told you so...told you so...". Give it a break with the Richards/Carter stuff already. The Rangers are a better team. The Flyers were in every game against the Rangers this year. Timonen is trying to fire up the team for today's game. I think, in hindsight, most Flyers fans feel the team was improved by the moves made over the summer.
- Dkos

You obviously didn't get the point of my post. Or overlooked the main point. It wasn't a "I told you so" or a Richards/Carter post. Timonen isn't trying to fire anyone up. That's not how you do it. Timonen is frustrated and isn't really interested in the future when he likely won't be here. He's concerned with right now.

And if your going to come at me with the give it a break with the Richards/Carter stuff, then do it to the countless posts that are made over and over with regards to those two players. Because I'm not the guy that constantly brings up the two players, like a large number of posters on here do.

You obviously didn't get the point of my post. Or overlooked the main point. It wasn't a "I told you so" or a Richards/Carter post. Timonen isn't trying to fire anyone up. That's not how you do it. Timonen is frustrated and isn't really interested in the future when he likely won't be here. He's concerned with right now.
- MJL

So why do you need to bring up the "culture change" from last year's team to this year's team if it's not a jab at the Richards/Carter trades? We all know how you felt about those trades and how you discounted all the reports of locker room problems. Seemed like a jab to me.

You don't know what Timonen's intentions were any more than I do. I'm sure he was frustrated. I'm also sure he's been around long enough to know this was just a loss and there's another game tomorrow.

Buddy they werent going for the cup this year. If they were then they wouldnt have traded Richards and Carter. (thank god they are gone) Its a retooling year
- Richieattack18

lol. Really? Is this how you guys are trying to spin it? You guys dumped Richards and Carter to sign Bryzgalov, when it really comes down to it. So if you guys win a Cup, it was just unexpected over achievement? How convenient for you guys. It wasn't like your past goalies play in the playoffs had anything to do with this decision...nope, you guys just needed some vet leadership in sought-after free agents like Ilya and Jagr to help the kiddos get by this year.

And if your going to come at me with the give it a break with the Richards/Carter stuff, then do it to the countless posts that are made over and over with regards to those two players. Because I'm not the guy that constantly brings up the two players, like a large number of posters on here do.
- MJL

You did bring it up.

lol. Really? Is this how you guys are trying to spin it? You guys dumped Richards and Carter to sign Bryzgalov, when it really comes down to it. So if you guys win a Cup, it was just unexpected over achievement? How convenient for you guys. It wasn't like your past goalies play in the playoffs had anything to do with this decision...nope, you guys just needed some vet leadership in sought-after free agents like Ilya and Jagr to help the kiddos get by this year.
- Blackstrom2

The Flyers try to win the Cup every year. If they win it this year, yes, it would be considered an unexpected over-achievement.

lol. Really? Is this how you guys are trying to spin it? You guys dumped Richards and Carter to sign Bryzgalov, when it really comes down to it. So if you guys win a Cup, it was just unexpected over achievement? How convenient for you guys. It wasn't like your past goalies play in the playoffs had anything to do with this decision...nope, you guys just needed some vet leadership in sought-after free agents like Ilya and Jagr to help the kiddos get by this year.
- Blackstrom2

Well this guy nailed it.

So why do you need to bring up the "culture change" from last year's team to this year's team if it's not a jab at the Richards/Carter trades? We all know how you felt about those trades and how you discounted all the reports of locker room problems. Seemed like a jab to me.

You don't know what Timonen's intentions were any more than I do. I'm sure he was frustrated. I'm also sure he's been around long enough to know this was just a loss and there's another game tomorrow.
- Dkos

It's not a jab. It's a statement that tension comes from losing. That problems develop in locker rooms from losing, regardless of who is on the team. It is not a specific post about any specific players. It's pretty clear what motivated Timonen to react the way he did. It's clearly frustration.

And to be clear, I never discounted any locker room problems last year. If your going to assign statements to me, be accurate.

You did bring it up.
- Dkos

I didn't mention Richards and Carter specifically. You did in your reply to me.

Your making it about Richards and Carter. My post was about the dynamics of a locker room and how it reacts to the frustration of losing.

What? When you play 6-9 rookies consistently the entire season - Couturier, Read, Bourdon, Holmstrom, Sestito, Rinaldo, Schenn, Zolnierczyk, Gustafsson - it is, pretty much by definition, a retool.
- wolfhounds

No, actually, you have that many rookies playing because you spent to the cap ceiling and can only afford to squeeze rookies in.

Flyer fans are trying to say, after all this pre-season drama, that they were never intended to be built for a Cup this year? Really? Why did Jagr sign here?

The Flyers try to win the Cup every year. If they win it this year, yes, it would be considered an unexpected over-achievement.
- Dkos

If it's because of Pronger going down, that is a more acceptable answer. (You don't see any Pens fans tempering their expectations being Sid-less though) But don't try to tell me and everyone that the Flyers had no intentions of competing for a Cup this year, to the point of trying to say that Jagrs and Ilya signings are proof that they were not Cup-built this year. Absurd. And don't point to the amount of rookies you have playing either, because that number is only high because of cap management.

The Flyers had full intentions on being Cup contenders this year.

If it's because of Pronger going down, that is a more acceptable answer. (You don't see any Pens fans tempering their expectations being Sid-less though) But don't try to tell me and everyone that the Flyers had no intentions of competing for a Cup this year, to the point of trying to say that Jagrs and Ilya signings are proof that they were not Cup-built this year. Absurd. And don't point to the amount of rookies you have playing either, because that number is only high because of cap management.

The Flyers had full intentions on being Cup contenders this year.
- Blackstrom2

Your partially correct. Part of the reason why the Flyers made some moves that they did was for Cap reasons. I think the Flyers are always wanting to compete for the Cup. But realistically, they had to expect that they were going to take some temporary steps back, in order to potentially be better in the future.

It's not a jab. It's a statement that tension comes from losing. That problems develop in locker rooms from losing, regardless of who is on the team. It is not a specific post about any specific players. It's pretty clear what motivated Timonen to react the way he did. It's clearly frustration.

And to be clear, I never discounted any locker room problems last year. If your going to assign statements to me, be accurate.
- MJL

I get your point...tension goes up in every locker room when you lose. Still seems like you were taking the the opportunity to take a jab at everyone who feels the Richards and Carter trades were made, partially, because of locker room issues. Guess I just misunderstood you.

No, actually, you have that many rookies playing because you spent to the cap ceiling and can only afford to squeeze rookies in.

Flyer fans are trying to say, after all this pre-season drama, that they were never intended to be built for a Cup this year? Really? Why did Jagr sign here?
- Blackstrom2

The Cup is obviously the goal every year, but there's no way in hell the Flyers trade Richards and Carter, lose Leino, Powe, Zherdev, O'Donnell, etc., replace them with new bodies and expect everybody will gel just fine and we'll be a cup contender. Everybody kept talking about how much offense we lost and how it was very unlikely we would make that up.

Actually, it's because of injuries, not the cap. How many concussions have the Caps dealt with this season?

You're right, the Flyers do spend to the cap nearly every season, and there are pros and cons, but right now we have money available because of Pronger but play a rookie in his stead because there are no D available.

Worry about your own team. I think most of us understand pretty well what's going on with the Flyers.

No, actually, you have that many rookies playing because you spent to the cap ceiling and can only afford to squeeze rookies in.


- Blackstrom2

Let's look at some of the rookies who are on the team. Couturier and Schenn are on the team because of the deals they made. So are they in the lineup due to that's all they could afford to squeeze in? Are you telling me that Matt Read is only on the team because that's all they could squeeze in? Or is it because Matt Read is a very good player? How about Bourdon or Gustafsson? Could one of the reasons they're in the lineup is due to Pronger being hurt? The Flyers have a veteran defenseman in Lilja that they could play instead of one of the rookies, already on the roster. And then there are the injuries such as the current one to JVR.

So looking at it, is the only reason the Flyers have that many rookies in the lineup due to that's all they could squeeze in?

The Cup is obviously the goal every year, but there's no way in hell the Flyers trade Richards and Carter, lose Leino, Powe, Zherdev, O'Donnell, etc., replace them with new bodies and expect everybody will gel just fine and we'll be a cup contender. Everybody kept talking about how much offense we lost and how it was very unlikely we would make that up.

Actually, it's because of injuries, not the cap. How many concussions have the Caps dealt with this season?

You're right, the Flyers do spend to the cap nearly every season, and there are pros and cons, but right now we have money available because of Pronger but play a rookie in his stead because there are no D available.

Worry about your own team. I think most of us understand pretty well what's going on with the Flyers.
- wolfhounds

You understand it to the point of changing your team's Cup or bust mentality to a retool to conveniently temper your expectations of the season. It's just funny reading the comments here. Okay, it was a retool. It still doesn't change the fact you guys were and still are Cup contenders. You moved salary into the goalie spot and allocated the rest into Voracek and Simmonds. You had no cap space, and were forced to roll rookies on opening night. You signed Jagr. lol. It's just funny to see the spin...especially when you guys aren't even doing that bad.

I know this may be a difficult concept, but it is possible to follow the intricacies of more than one team of a sport. If you disagree, that's fine, but there are Flyer fans here who agree with me. So.

No, actually, you have that many rookies playing because you spent to the cap ceiling and can only afford to squeeze rookies in.

Flyer fans are trying to say, after all this pre-season drama, that they were never intended to be built for a Cup this year? Really? Why did Jagr sign here?
- Blackstrom2

Thanks for the puddle deep analysis of the situation. Good work.

You understand it to the point of changing your team's Cup or bust mentality to a retool to conveniently temper your expectations of the season. It's just funny reading the comments here. Okay, it was a retool. It still doesn't change the fact you guys were and still are Cup contenders. You moved salary into the goalie spot and allocated the rest into Voracek and Simmonds. You had no cap space, and were forced to roll rookies on opening night. You signed Jagr. lol. It's just funny to see the spin...especially when you guys aren't even doing that bad.

I know this may be a difficult concept, but it is possible to follow the intricacies of more than one team of a sport. If you disagree, that's fine, but there are Flyer fans here who agree with me. So.
- Blackstrom2

There's Flyers fans here who can't chew gum and walk at the same time. In fact, with fans like some of the ones we have, I'd be worried if I agreed with them on anything, including the color of the sky

Let's look at some of the rookies who are on the team. Couturier and Schenn are on the team because of the deals they made. So are they in the lineup due to that's all they could afford to squeeze in? Are you telling me that Matt Read is only on the team because that's all they could squeeze in? Or is it because Matt red is a very good player? How about Bourdon or Gustafsson? Could one of the reasons they're in the lineup is due to Pronger being hurt? The Flyers have a veteran defenseman in Lilja that they could play instead of one of the rookies, already on the roster. And then there are the injuries such as the current one to JVR.

So looking at it, is the only reason the Flyers have that many rookies in the lineup due to that's all they could squeeze in?
- MJL

Really? I only bring up the rookies because a Flyer fan tried to make the claim that the high amount of rookies indicates lowered expectations. You just helped explain why the initial statement was false.

You understand it to the point of changing your team's Cup or bust mentality to a retool to conveniently temper your expectations of the season. It's just funny reading the comments here. Okay, it was a retool. It still doesn't change the fact you guys were and still are Cup contenders. You moved salary into the goalie spot and allocated the rest into Voracek and Simmonds. You had no cap space, and were forced to roll rookies on opening night. You signed Jagr. lol. It's just funny to see the spin...especially when you guys aren't even doing that bad.

I know this may be a difficult concept, but it is possible to follow the intricacies of more than one team of a sport. If you disagree, that's fine, but there are Flyer fans here who agree with me. So.
- Blackstrom2

They had no Cap space yet they were able to sign Jagr to deal for 3.3M

Thanks for the puddle deep analysis of the situation. Good work.
- Jsaquella

Pretentious and condescending. Comes with the title.

They had no Cap space yet they were able to sign Jagr to deal for 3.3M
- MJL

What?

I hope this is a joke.

Really? I only bring up the rookies because a Flyer fan tried to make the claim that the high amount of rookies indicates lowered expectations. You just helped explain why the initial statement was false.
- Blackstrom2

What I explained that was false is your statement that the Flyers only have so many rookies in the lineup was due to the Cap. That is competely incorrect. With the roster turnover and all the changes and young player added, the expectations were certainly lowered. At least they were in my eyes.