Regardless of who plays goal for the Flyers, it's like they start each game a goal down just based on the goalie match up.
- MrBuzzcut

Yes. But at 2-2 they had the early bad start behind them.

The Flyers could turn into a John Stevens team that plays D first and is mainly a transition/counter attack team.

With the current group of D-men, inconsistent goaltending and a forward corpse that is suspect defensively I think that is the worst thing they can do.

They need a better D first and foremost.
- flyer_nutter

Yeah.

They could change their "system" and still leave guys alone down low.

Bob saved Carle's ass in the first when he stopped Gaborik on the 2 on 1.

Carle tried a feeble poke check at the shooter. Just one big example that I remember.

The goaltending has gotten enough blame. It seems in every game it is either Meszaros, Coburn or Carle that have a horrid performance. Its getting really predictable. Change is needed. At this point, id be willing to lose 2 out of the three.
- flyer_nutter

So how are they going to replace all of these d men? Dump 2 out those 3 plus Pronger probably done that's a lot to replace. I just don't see that happening.

Regardless of who plays goal for the Flyers, it's like they start each game a goal down just based on the goalie match up.
- MrBuzzcut

I'd lay it on the D much more than the goalie.

And then on a combination of too many penalties and the occasional bad call.

Who knew Saturday was poopty ref day for the Flyers?

Bob saved Carle's ass in the first when he stopped Gaborik on the 2 on 1.

Carle tried a feeble poke check at the shooter. Just one big example that I remember.

The goaltending has gotten enough blame. It seems in every game it is either Meszaros, Coburn or Carle that have a horrid performance. Its getting really predictable. Change is needed. At this point, id be willing to lose 2 out of the three.
- flyer_nutter

i'm beginning to feel the same. for awhile those 3 stepped up when pronger went down. but that's been done for some time now. they're just not good enough.

No.

But some of the ideas I see of basically rolling out the same D-core is batpoop crazy to me.

These guys are not rookies on the back end. Carle, Meszaros and Coburn are 3 of your top 4 d-men and are consistently having too many horrid games. That cant happen.

They arent going to magically get more consistent. They are not rookies. For christ sake shake up the D in the off-season.

It's like using the same retarded pick up line every night and hoping it will work. It may, but it wont get you a dance with the hot chick. (Stanley Cup)
- flyer_nutter

I understand what you are saying. The Flyers have some big named high priced dmen, but as a unit they don't play well. The loss of Pronger is enormous. He's huge in every aspect. Special teams, as well as being their best dman by far in their own end.

No.

But some of the ideas I see of basically rolling out the same D-core is batpoop crazy to me.

These guys are not rookies on the back end. Carle, Meszaros and Coburn are 3 of your top 4 d-men and are consistently having too many horrid games. That cant happen.

They arent going to magically get more consistent. They are not rookies. For christ sake shake up the D in the off-season.

It's like using the same retarded pick up line every night and hoping it will work. It may, but it wont get you a dance with the hot chick. (Stanley Cup)
- flyer_nutter

Thats my concern with those three as well. They have too many horrid games for my liking. The inconsistent and poor decision making happens to often.

Yeah.

They could change their "system" and still leave guys alone down low.
- MrBuzzcut

Exactly.

You need certain kinds of players to play certain systems. I thought thats what was learned with the firing of John Stevens.

For all the questions about the forwards and defensive coverage the d-men make far more mistakes. Its a team game, but played by individuals.

I cant remember how many times I see a d-man completely out of position of leaving his man alone. Shake it up.

There are 3k people at the Edmonton/Ottawa game in Quebec Nordiques jerseys and Bettman signs.

Put the Panthers in Quebec City already. So comical that South Florida has more teams than Quebec.
- PLindbergh31

Bettman is (frank)in clueless ...he just doesn't want to admit to failing organizations by relocating them to Canada where they would flourish ...he cares more about his image then the state of the game and teams

Bettman is (frank)in clueless ...he just doesn't want to admit to failing organizations by relocating them to Canada where they would flourish ...he cares more about his image then the state of the game and teams
- keatondixon

Time for him to move on. 19 years is enough. Fresh face is needed.

So how are they going to replace all of these d men? Dump 2 out those 3 plus Pronger probably done that's a lot to replace. I just don't see that happening.
- LJF

I posted a suggestion a few days ago. I have re-thought it to an extent.

Let Carle walk, and trade Coburn.

You will have to trade for them but my main targets would be Schenn, Douglas Murray or Giordano. Look into Suter at how much he will want.

Its far to easy to say it will be too hard to make the needed changes to the d-core. Far too easy to sit and hope for the best and they will "mature" and all get it on track. Thankfully, the Flyers have not been an organization to "sit and hope".

I have faith that the needed changes will be made.

Exactly.

You need certain kinds of players to play certain systems. I thought thats what was learned with the firing of John Stevens.

For all the questions about the forwards and defensive coverage the d-men make far more mistakes. Its a team game, but played by individuals.

I cant remember how many times I see a d-man completely out of position of leaving his man alone. Shake it up.
- flyer_nutter

My thinking is exactly the same. Everyone always says who is going to replace Mez, Coburn, or Carle (if traded) but my response would be someone who fits our system and can play defense. We have enough puck skating defenseman on this team they need more guys who are defensive minded first.

Exactly.

You need certain kinds of players to play certain systems. I thought thats what was learned with the firing of John Stevens.

For all the questions about the forwards and defensive coverage the d-men make far more mistakes. Its a team game, but played by individuals.

I cant remember how many times I see a d-man completely out of position of leaving his man alone. Shake it up.
- flyer_nutter

Coburn had a particularly hilarious instance of this against Toronto.

Lupul love tapped him so Coburn skated away and left him alone.

That's not a system problem.

Coburn had a particularly hilarious instance of this against Toronto.

Lupul love tapped him so Coburn skated away and left him alone.

That's not a system problem.
- MrBuzzcut

Their defenseman just arent that good imo. Its easy to say who will replace them but their are other options. You dont know how a player will come in and play if the Flyers add a defenseman. Why trade Carter and Richards bc their was no one who could replace them but yet they did.

I understand what you are saying. The Flyers have some big named high priced dmen, but as a unit they don't play well. The loss of Pronger is enormous. He's huge in every aspect. Special teams, as well as being their best dman by far in their own end.
- PLindbergh31

I have been able to get on board with the three (carle, coburn and mez) because with Pronger a lot of their incosistency was hidden due to how many minutes he played.

With Pronger done, the situation changes. Its too predictable. One out of the 3 has a solid game, the other a mediocre and the other a horrid performance.

Say what you want about panic, but sitting on your ass and hoping they will pull it all together is the lazy way imo. They have by far proven to me they are not worth the 15 (estimated) million it will cost to keep all three.

Too inconsistent.

You crack me up Mookie! You are a breath of fresh air during tough losses. I can still go out tonight and enjoy a nice dinner and some cocktails! Everyone else should do the same!
- PLindbergh31

Oh yea, Agree 100 percent

I'm with those who think the Pronger absence is a big deal. He made everyone better and it will only get worse as the D gets more and more worn down. For the Flyers to do anything this year too much must happen. First they need to replace Pronger's minutes with a quality player; then the goaltending must stabilize and finally the fowards need to jell... that is the veterans like Briere and Jagr need to start making an impact and the rest need to be responsible defensively, the rookies need to continue their strong play but its going to be that much harder down the stretch. Don't know if they should go overboard at the deadline though by mortgaging the future to fix a shakey team. A shut-down D man and a shut-down center are a necessity but at what cost.

My thinking is exactly the same. Everyone always says who is going to replace Mez, Coburn, or Carle (if traded) but my response would be someone who fits our system and can play defense. We have enough puck skating defenseman on this team they need more guys who are defensive minded first.
- stveshdy

Not in any stretch of the imagination am I signing Carle to what he wants. Coburn, at least, takes it to another level in the playoffs normally

I'm with those who think the Pronger absence is a big deal. He made everyone better and it will only get worse as the D gets more and more worn down. For the Flyers to do anything this year too much must happen. First they need to replace Pronger's minutes with a quality player; then the goaltending must stabilize and finally the fowards need to jell... that is the veterans like Briere and Jagr need to start making an impact and the rest need to be responsible defensively, the rookies need to continue their strong play but its going to be that much harder down the stretch. Don't know if they should go overboard at the deadline though by mortgaging the future to fix a shakey team. A shut-down D man and a shut-down center are a necessity but at what cost.
- 2731color

How to fix this ? Go get another Pronger, aka Weber no matter what it costs

Bettman is (frank)in clueless ...he just doesn't want to admit to failing organizations by relocating them to Canada where they would flourish ...he cares more about his image then the state of the game and teams
- keatondixon

Except that whole Atlanta / Winnipeg move happened. Replacing Bettman won't rid the NHL of all its ills. He represents the owners, after all.

My thinking is exactly the same. Everyone always says who is going to replace Mez, Coburn, or Carle (if traded) but my response would be someone who fits our system and can play defense. We have enough puck skating defenseman on this team they need more guys who are defensive minded first.
- stveshdy

Exactly right stveshdy.

Far too easy to shoot down ideas and say lets just hope they pull it together, they are still solid d-men.

Those 3, are solid NHL defensemen. However are far too inconsistent to hold up 15 million in cap space. Far too (to put it bluntly) poopty at playing D to take up that much room, and expect to carry you to the cup.

Who will replace them? A question far too easy to dismiss. At the same time, its also far too easy to roll out the same poop over and over again and hope for something better.

Except that whole Atlanta / Winnipeg move happened. Replacing Bettman won't rid the NHL of all its ills. He represents the owners, after all.
- Flyskippy

If I remember correct, Bettman is gonna be there for a few more years. lol get used to the face, he is gonna be around for awhile

I have been able to get on board with the three (carle, coburn and mez) because with Pronger a lot of their incosistency was hidden due to how many minutes he played.

With Pronger done, the situation changes. Its too predictable. One out of the 3 has a solid game, the other a mediocre and the other a horrid performance.

Say what you want about panic, but sitting on your ass and hoping they will pull it all together is the lazy way imo. They have by far proven to me they are not worth the 15 (estimated) million it will cost to keep all three.

Too inconsistent.
- flyer_nutter

I agree. People will give you numbers and minutes and try to provide all the facts that swing in their way but they make too many mistakes and are far too inconsistent imo also. I dont want to rely every single night on which guy will show up.

Exactly right stveshdy.

Far too easy to shoot down ideas and say lets just hope they pull it together, they are still solid d-men.

Those 3, are solid NHL defensemen. However are far too inconsistent to hold up 15 million in cap space. Far too (to put it bluntly) poopty at playing D to take up that much room, and expect to carry you to the cup.

Who will replace them? A question far too easy to dismiss. At the same time, its also far too easy to roll out the same poop over and over again and hope for something better.
- flyer_nutter

True, Homer knows he needs to change something. I can only hope that whatever may happen is not at too much a cost

Anyone thinking that Homer is going all out after his big changes this past summer is in for disappointment, IMO. He might make a minor move but this isn't a Cup contender, even were Pronger healthy.