Simmonds was spinning and winning last night, that play he made on Suter was highlight reel stuff. He did some posting and toasting on Mr. Suter. shielding the puck with his body and getting that shot off. The Simmonds/Schenn/Rinaldo line was fantastic last night.

Some stellar work from Bryz as well. Great win.
- PLindbergh31

Yeah..he looked like he'd been taking puck shielding lessons from Jagr.

Speaking of Jagr. I gotta say, groin issues aside, the guy has really won me over. I was queasy about that signing when it happened. All my historical Jagr/Pens/Caps/Rags hate bubbled just under the surface until he hit the ice in preseason. I had visions of him stinking it up like he did in DC (where I saw him play a fair bit) and visions of him sulking when things were not going just as he pleased, like later on in his Pens tenure and all through his time as a Cap. But I did the only thing I could do as a fan...give him a chance. Jagr v 2.0 has really proved to be a great team guy. I am excited to see him embrace the mentoring role and the fact that he is gunning for G to win the Ross trophy, and showing that on the ice speaks volumes about Jags' mindset. Is it possible that an athlete can go from being hated and mocked to beloved in Philly? Do we have examples of that in any sport in Philly? If Jagr has a strong postseason and continues to be the player and mentor he has been, I think he can become such a player, especially if he signs for another year (at a reasonable cap hit). He really is being the kind of player that Philly fans love. I mean he even works hard on the defensive side, something he wasn't known for in his early years. After years of despising the guy, I am a fan...maybe I've just gotten soft with age (please keep the "that's what she said" jokes to yourself )

So im totally confused right now with Suter... i thought for sure he was off the market for sure... then mullet goes on the NHL network and is talking about him getting traded and then reading Bill's convo with the Nashville scout and he is a good as gone in the summer....

The way he has acted in Columbus this year with the sulking, and constantly being injured gives a lot of fuel to the people who like to rip the guy.

My take on Carter is he's a good player, not great. He can score goals in bunches, but has a habit of disappearing in big games. His playoff numbers fall of a cliff compared to his regular season numbers.
- PLindbergh31

I think this is the exact reason Homer traded him and Richards this year. I think Homer was expecting them to continue to grow into top players in the NHL, thus making thier contacts value deals, however it appears that each one has somewhat reached their potential and it was a good time to deal them, before other teams realized they arent top notch all-star players, but just nice top line players...

So im totally confused right now with Suter... i thought for sure he was off the market for sure... then mullet goes on the NHL network and is talking about him getting traded and then reading Bill's convo with the Nashville scout and he is a good as gone in the summer....
- Slammed81

The skinny of it is there won't be any definites until he puts ink to the dotted line.

Yeah..he looked like he'd been taking puck shielding lessons from Jagr.

Speaking of Jagr. I gotta say, groin issues aside, the guy has really won me over. I was queasy about that signing when it happened. All my historical Jagr/Pens/Caps/Rags hate bubbled just under the surface until he hit the ice in preseason. I had visions of him stinking it up like he did in DC (where I saw him play a fair bit) and visions of him sulking when things were not going just as he pleased, like later on in his Pens tenure and all through his time as a Cap. But I did the only thing I could do as a fan...give him a chance. Jagr v 2.0 has really proved to be a great team guy. I am excited to see him embrace the mentoring role and the fact that he is gunning for G to win the Ross trophy, and showing that on the ice speaks volumes about Jags' mindset. Is it possible that an athlete can go from being hated and mocked to beloved in Philly? Do we have examples of that in any sport in Philly? If Jagr has a strong postseason and continues to be the player and mentor he has been, I think he can become such a player, especially if he signs for another year (at a reasonable cap hit). He really is being the kind of player that Philly fans love. I mean he even works hard on the defensive side, something he wasn't known for in his early years. After years of despising the guy, I am a fan...maybe I've just gotten soft with age


- Lexington Flyer

I was getting annoyed with Jagr leaving games early due to coming back too soon, I understand he doesn't know how many NHL games he has left in him, he wants to be out there playing. I get that. By every account he's been a great teammate and has played well for the most part. I would see how this year plays out to see if I would sign him for next year. That 4 million or so it would take, might be more prudently spent on something else.

It certainly looks great for us thus far. However, Couturier falling to the 8th spot was a case of the Hockey Gods paying us back for losing on Kane. At the time I was expecting more for a 30-40 goal scorer. Simmonds production is also something that couldn't be predicted. A few of us said he would have 20 this year (myself included to toot my own horn) but it was anything but a lock to happen. He could have been a nice grinding, hitting, fighting, 3rd liner and potted 12 goals and it wouldn't have been surprising.

Conclusion to a run on thought: things have worked out for us really well, but hindsight is 20/20.
- coffee junkie

I think the deal would have worked out even if Couturier didn't drop to 8th, because then we would have picked up a stud defenseman, Doogie Hamilton, that we will need in a season or 2.

You bought a Carter jersey
- Slammed81

I would give them Voracek and our first for Carter though

I think this is the exact reason Homer traded him and Richards this year. I think Homer was expecting them to continue to grow into top players in the NHL, thus making thier contacts value deals, however it appears that each one has somewhat reached their potential and it was a good time to deal them, before other teams realized they arent top notch all-star players, but just nice top line players...
- RooNosHockey

Possibly. Holmgren made two good hockey trades. The reasons why they were made aren't really important imo.

I think this is the exact reason Homer traded him and Richards this year. I think Homer was expecting them to continue to grow into top players in the NHL, thus making thier contacts value deals, however it appears that each one has somewhat reached their potential and it was a good time to deal them, before other teams realized they arent top notch all-star players, but just nice top line players...
- RooNosHockey

Including that he had a small window to trade them before their NTCs kidded in and they were no longer motivated by a new contract since they were signed 4 life. I'm a "commi" by nature but those contracts were not the best way to motivate young players. Homer's best part of the trades was getting rid of those contracts, now lets not make the same mistake in the future eh?

I think this is the exact reason Homer traded him and Richards this year. I think Homer was expecting them to continue to grow into top players in the NHL, thus making thier contacts value deals, however it appears that each one has somewhat reached their potential and it was a good time to deal them, before other teams realized they arent top notch all-star players, but just nice top line players...
- RooNosHockey

I think it was a multitude of issues to be honest.. but the big one was that they both had NMC about to kick in and they were not the players that we had hoped they would continue to blossom into.... They are not Giroux.

Richards and Carter combined so far this season.
73 games 24 goals, 19 assists, 43 points.

Claude Giroux so far this season.
46 games 19 goals, 38 assists, 57 points.

I was getting annoyed with Jagr leaving games early due to coming back too soon, I understand he doesn't know how many NHL games he has left in him, he wants to be out there playing. I get that. By every account he's been a great teammate and has played well for the most part. I would see how this year plays out to see if I would sign him for next year. That 4 million or so it would take, might be more prudently spent on something else.
- PLindbergh31

Jagr said he wants to play sign here another year, and he said Money isnt an issue. He is currently making wht? 3 mill? I would gladly pay 3 mill again, and would be even happer if he took a little less.

I corresponded yesterday with a longtime NHL pro scout about Nashville's Ryan Suter. His take on the All-Star defenseman is that while Suter would be an asset on any team in the league, Suter is not a franchise player like Shea Weber.

Thus, if it comes down to keeping one player or the other for the long haul, it would be Weber he'd hand a blank check to and work the team's cap management around both him and Pekka Rinne.

As for Suter's pronouncement that he wanted to wait until after the season to talk contract and focus only on hockey, the scout gave a very blunt assessment.

"That means he's as good as gone this summer," the scout wrote. "When a player really wants to stay and just focus on hockey, he has his agent negotiate an extension before he hits the free agent market. But this is a business. He's going to make a lot of money, and get paid like a franchise player."

I asked the scout if he would consider Suter an upgrade on Matt Carle if the latter were to depart Philadelphia via free agency this summer.

"Yes, Suter is better but Carle's pretty good, too. I think he's stepped up without Pronger this year," he said. "He's another guy who is line for a big payday."

Carle, who had a three-game point streak ended last night, has eaten up 23-plus minutes of ice time in eight straight games before playing 21:26 last night.
/quote Bill Meltzer

That is really interesting stuff there, thanks for sharing, Bill.

Do you need a franchise defenseman to win a cup? A Chara/Weber/Pronger type or
is it better to have great depth and six or seven reliable guys on defense?

From reading the scout's take, Suter will be taking the highest bid.
I guess Matt Carle will be gone too.

I think it was you who said a while back that the Flyers would NOT be able to afford to re sign both Carle and Coburn. Maybe this is Carle's last season as a Flyer.
He has been really good this season, and I think will be very tough to replace. But he is not a franchise guy, just a very valuable player for them.

So im totally confused right now with Suter... i thought for sure he was off the market for sure... then mullet goes on the NHL network and is talking about him getting traded and then reading Bill's convo with the Nashville scout and he is a good as gone in the summer....
- Slammed81

Very tough spot for Poile. The best deal may be trading him to a WC team looking to add to their D for a cup run, but then the Preds may end up facing that team themselves. Could trade to an EC team to avoid that of course. Could also keep him through the playoffs and hope to work a smaller deal before the draft. I'm sure certain teams would give up something to get a chance to talk with Suter and his agent before the draft.

I would give them Voracek and our first for Carter though
- RooNosHockey

Not a chance in hell..

I think this is the exact reason Homer traded him and Richards this year. I think Homer was expecting them to continue to grow into top players in the NHL, thus making thier contacts value deals, however it appears that each one has somewhat reached their potential and it was a good time to deal them, before other teams realized they arent top notch all-star players, but just nice top line players...
- RooNosHockey

Maybe that's true but to say how Holmgren felt about Richards and Carter is speculative. What I'm certain of, though, is that Holmgren took a step back from the "cup competitor" status this team had, and in doing so turned back the clock. He turned this team into one well stocked in young offensive talent, talent that seems set to break out all at once. It was a gamble, an investment in the future, but it looks like a damn good one right now.

I think the deal would have worked out even if Couturier didn't drop to 8th, because then we would have picked up a stud defenseman, Doogie Hamilton, that we will need in a season or 2.
- RooNosHockey

Maybe, but we'll need to check back in on that one in a few years to see how Hamilton is doing. Hindsight.

I was expecting at least another pick- a 3rd. Not much more but I thought he was worth a bit more (his monster contract could have minimized his value).

Including that he had a small window to trade them before their NTCs kidded in and they were no longer motivated by a new contract since they were signed 4 life. I'm a "commi" by nature but those contracts were not the best way to motivate young players. Homer's best part of the trades was getting rid of those contracts, now lets not make the same mistake in the future eh?
- coffee junkie

He turned around and made the same mistake with Bryz. IMO of course.

Not a chance in hell..
- jak521

Agreed

I think this is the exact reason Homer traded him and Richards this year. I think Homer was expecting them to continue to grow into top players in the NHL, thus making thier contacts value deals, however it appears that each one has somewhat reached their potential and it was a good time to deal them, before other teams realized they arent top notch all-star players, but just nice top line players...
- RooNosHockey

I think Richards could still become the player people expected him to be, but it was hard for him to do that when the expectations and pressures of the C were front and center. He needed an attitude adjustment and the trade was probably a good chance for him to get in touch with some humility. I think he will continue to grow and it is a slight bummer that he couldn't do it in Philly, but to date, I am happy with that trade. I'm ecstatic with the Carter deal. I think we've seen his best play and his faults, especially post-season faults, have been paraded around here extensively, so I won't beat that horse (again). I think we'll only get more happy with that deal as Cooter continues to develop. I don't know that we'll ever feel like the deal was a "Coburn for Zhitnik" kind of win, but I think the trade win ledger is seriously tilted towards Homer on that deal.

Agreed
- Slammed81

Maybe that's true but to say how Holmgren felt about Richards and Carter is speculative. What I'm certain of, though, is that Holmgren took a step back from the "cup competitor" status this team had, and in doing so turned back the clock. He turned this team into one well stocked in young offensive talent, talent that seems set to break out all at once. It was a gamble, an investment in the future, but it looks like a damn good one right now.
- BulliesPhan87

Someone wrote the other day that this is clearly a rebuilding year for the Flyers, and somehow they have managed to be in 4th place despite the rebuild.

That is pretty good.

He turned around and made the same mistake with Bryz. IMO of course.
- rockychocbill

agree to a point but i think alot of players are demanding this...they want long deals and big money... Weber or Suter are gonna want the same thing in the summer... everyone hates the contract for Bryz but i knew thats what he was gonna ask for

I think it was a multitude of issues to be honest.. but the big one was that they both had NMC about to kick in and they were not the players that we had hoped they would continue to blossom into.... They are not Giroux.

Richards and Carter combined so far this season.
73 games 24 goals, 19 assists, 43 points.

Claude Giroux so far this season.
46 games 19 goals, 38 assists, 57 points.
- jak521

Yea, I forgot to mention the NTC/NMC part of thier contracts, but again it's the same idea... He made a decision that these guys weren't living up to what they hoped and he had a limited time to make things happen.

But seriously how bad did Homer screw over LA and Columbus?? In all reality Columbus needed a center that could come in and set Nash up, and play a defensive system... Richards would have been a perfect fit. LA needs scoring in a big way. They already have defensive players like Brown, and Kopitar is no slouch defensively... Carter would have been perfect in LA... And you can assume the packages would have been about the same... But NO, Homer said.. NO.

He turned around and made the same mistake with Bryz. IMO of course.
- rockychocbill

No doubt, the NMC in his contract is a dead weight on the teams neck. So, here is to not making the same mistake again, again

Someone wrote the other day that this is clearly a rebuilding year for the Flyers, and somehow they have managed to be in 4th place despite the rebuild.

That is pretty good.
- Marc D

That's my kind of rebuild

There's still work to be done, though. The defensive corps needs something. The lack of Pronger's presence can be felt, and now we're looking at losing Carle. In another year, Timonen's contract is up. Holmgren's got some important decisions to make with this new-ish team.