Wow. Figured he'd go somewhere.
- Brian Huddle

yeah me too

well...

here i am


- Dozzer

*Chickens out*

Just thought i'd chime in on the detroit drafting convo

detroit typically has an older team, so any kid picked post lockout hasnt had the chance to prove their worth.. the next 4-5 years should be very telling.. one thing detroit has a knack of is finding superstars where no one else is looking..

as the younger kids are brought into key roles in the next 3-5 years we will truly see if detroit is good at drafting.. or if scotty bowman was just that good at developing young players
- Dozzer

not anymore. Everybody is looking everywhere now.

Maybe Africa, Asia, and South America have developing hockey programs that Detroit is scouting heavily... but if they are, they haven't really shown up on draft day just yet.

Basically all of North America and Europe is being scouted. They don't have the early mover advantage anymore. And once the big-3 retires(Datsyuk-34 next season- isn't too far behind Lidstrom... and Zetterberg-32- isn't too far behind Pavel)... well, they don't exactly have anyone in their prospect pool who's got the ability to fill those shoes.

And again, they didn't really develop any of their top guys... outside of Howard, they all kinda just stepped into the NHL from their draft teams... so the idea that Detroit is this refinery that takes coal and turns it into diamond in a way that no other team in the NHL can do... that's pretty unfounded.

We'll also see how some of their current guys do as the top players leave... How much of Kronwall and White's success with the Red Wings comes from playing with or behind Lidstrom?

so I proposed the trade:

to CHI: Grabovski
to TOR: CHI 1st, CHI 5th, Beach

And get laughed at by a habs fan (obviously still upset they lost grabo), but just wondering if that seems like fair value on both sides
- mfreedman

This is supposed to be a pretty deep draft, no?

I think adding Beach is what gets you laughed at. Replace either Beach or the 1st with a lesser asset, and it's fair.

Brendan Smith.
- Brian Huddle

Think he can step into Lidstrom's boots? ever?

Think he can step into Lidstrom's boots? ever?
- Feeling Glucky?

Can anyone?

I still don;t understand why he's not with the team being mentored by one of the greats. Would be huge for him. But ultimately I think he's a top pairing guy one day.

Fack I need a new job.

This is supposed to be a pretty deep draft, no?

I think adding Beach is what gets you laughed at. Replace either Beach or the 1st with a lesser asset, and it's fair.
- Feeling Glucky?

I wouldn't think Beach is the biggest problem IMO. Last year, Kaberle brought back Colbourne+, and Beauchemin brought back Gardiner+

Grabovski had 29 goals last season and is on pace for another 30G 30A season, which IMO makes him more valueable than either of Kaberle/Beachemin.

Not to mentiont he need for Centres this year.

Maybe its a little lopsided, but laughing at the trade makes no sense to me

not anymore. Everybody is looking everywhere now.

Maybe Africa, Asia, and South America have developing hockey programs that Detroit is scouting heavily... but if they are, they haven't really shown up on draft day just yet.

Basically all of North America and Europe is being scouted. They don't have the early mover advantage anymore. And once the big-3 retires(Datsyuk-34 next season- isn't too far behind Lidstrom... and Zetterberg-32- isn't too far behind Pavel)... well, they don't exactly have anyone in their prospect pool who's got the ability to fill those shoes.

And again, they didn't really develop any of their top guys... outside of Howard, they all kinda just stepped into the NHL from their draft teams... so the idea that Detroit is this refinery that takes coal and turns it into diamond in a way that no other team in the NHL can do... that's pretty unfounded.

We'll also see how some of their current guys do as the top players leave... How much of Kronwall and White's success with the Red Wings comes from playing with or behind Lidstrom?
- Feeling Glucky?

fair enough.. but still.. until we see how it plays out.. all opinions on the subject are assumptive..

do i think detroit is due for a lull? sure i do.. but i also dont think it will be a fall from the op / crash at the bottom lull..

i think it will be more of a bottom seed playoffs lull.. they are just too well run of a club.

i mean look at it this way.. if they start to taper off they trade their aging stars to teams who feel they are just that one seasoned guy away from the cup for prospect depth and younger players

so long as they play the next couple years correctly.. they could make out like bandits

not anymore. Everybody is looking everywhere now.

Maybe Africa, Asia, and South America have developing hockey programs that Detroit is scouting heavily... but if they are, they haven't really shown up on draft day just yet.

Basically all of North America and Europe is being scouted. They don't have the early mover advantage anymore. And once the big-3 retires(Datsyuk-34 next season- isn't too far behind Lidstrom... and Zetterberg-32- isn't too far behind Pavel)... well, they don't exactly have anyone in their prospect pool who's got the ability to fill those shoes.

And again, they didn't really develop any of their top guys... outside of Howard, they all kinda just stepped into the NHL from their draft teams... so the idea that Detroit is this refinery that takes coal and turns it into diamond in a way that no other team in the NHL can do... that's pretty unfounded.

We'll also see how some of their current guys do as the top players leave... How much of Kronwall and White's success with the Red Wings comes from playing with or behind Lidstrom?
- Feeling Glucky?

White's success comes from being the perfect fit for the system Babcock employs. He was successful in San Jose too. He's not a top d-man or a #1 but he is very much a solid rafalski replacement.

This is supposed to be a pretty deep draft, no?

I think adding Beach is what gets you laughed at. Replace either Beach or the 1st with a lesser asset, and it's fair.
- Feeling Glucky?

Beach's stock isn't as high as it once was. I think its a fair deadline type deal.
Habs fans generally feel Grabovski's numbers are a product of being force feed second and first line minutes.....kind've how we felt about stajan. Big difference is, no matter who Grabo plays with he performs.

fair enough.. but still.. until we see how it plays out.. all opinions on the subject are assumptive..

do i think detroit is due for a lull? sure i do.. but i also dont think it will be a fall from the op / crash at the bottom lull..

i think it will be more of a bottom seed playoffs lull.. they are just too well run of a club.

i mean look at it this way.. if they start to taper off they trade their aging stars to teams who feel they are just that one seasoned guy away from the cup for prospect depth and younger players

so long as they play the next couple years correctly.. they could make out like bandits
- Dozzer

given the state of the economy in michigan... I think the lull is gonna be big.

Once the rebuild starts, the wins will stop. Given half the state is unemployed, the amount of money people are willing to spend on a losing team will drop...

And to make things worse, I think management knows it. So they're going to do whatever they can to delay the inevitable, which will only make the rebuild worse.

so I proposed the trade:

to CHI: Grabovski
to TOR: CHI 1st, CHI 5th, Beach

And get laughed at by a habs fan (obviously still upset they lost grabo), but just wondering if that seems like fair value on both sides
- mfreedman

I don't see getting anything more than a 1st rounder from a contending team for a rented Grabo.

so I proposed the trade:

to CHI: Grabovski
to TOR: CHI 1st, CHI 5th, Beach

And get laughed at by a habs fan (obviously still upset they lost grabo), but just wondering if that seems like fair value on both sides
- mfreedman

CHI'd want a conditional 2nd if Grabs doesn't resign.

Grabovski
cond. 2nd
_____

1st in 2012
Beech.

I'd be happy with that trade

I don't see getting anything more than a 1st rounder from a contending team for a rented Grabo.
- 1979AD

Grabs is this year's Versteeg

I don't see getting anything more than a 1st rounder from a contending team for a rented Grabo.
- 1979AD

Chicago also doesn't really need a centre....so they won't be a player for him imo anyways.

given the state of the economy in michigan... I think the lull is gonna be big.

Once the rebuild starts, the wins will stop. Given half the state is unemployed, the amount of money people are willing to spend on a losing team will drop...
And to make things worse, I think management knows it. So they're going to do whatever they can to delay the inevitable, which will only make the rebuild worse.
- Feeling Glucky?

And the fact that 75% of Detroit's metro population doesn't fit the profile of a hockey fan.

Might as well build themselves a new barn in Ann Arbour or something, so people don't have to drive an hour to the game worry about their stereo getting jacked from their cars

Grabs is this year's Versteeg
- AngryWhiteMale

Except not a douche.

Chicago also doesn't really need a centre....so they won't be a player for him imo anyways.
- mykokes

I could see WSH really wanting a guy like Grabs.

But that could come back to bite us.

ANA could use a guy like him, as Koivu's getting up there in years.

Not saying he'd necessarily fetch us one of the big three but heck if by the trade deadline they're out of lottery-pick territory and in the running they might be willing to move their 1st this year

Except not a douche.
- AdamFrench

Owning an Audi R8 would go to anyone's head.

CHI'd want a conditional 2nd if Grabs doesn't resign.

Grabovski
cond. 2nd
_____

1st in 2012
Beech.

I'd be happy with that trade
- AngryWhiteMale

This makes more sense IMO.

And the fact that 75% of Detroit's metro population doesn't fit the profile of a hockey fan.

Might as well build themselves a new barn in Ann Arbour or something, so people don't have to drive an hour to the game worry about their stereo getting jacked from their cars
- AngryWhiteMale

Too many Asians?

@TSNBobMcKenzieBob McKenzie

SJS's Antero Nittymaki clears waivers as does LAK's Cam Paddock.
- Dozzer

Really?? Why wouldn't Tampa pick him up??

Chicago also doesn't really need a centre....so they won't be a player for him imo anyways.
- mykokes

They need a 2nd line center, IMO.

I wouldn't think Beach is the biggest problem IMO. Last year, Kaberle brought back Colbourne+, and Beauchemin brought back Gardiner+

Grabovski had 29 goals last season and is on pace for another 30G 30A season, which IMO makes him more valueable than either of Kaberle/Beachemin.

Not to mentiont he need for Centres this year.

Maybe its a little lopsided, but laughing at the trade makes no sense to me
- mfreedman

meh, its the internet. laughing is the easy way out.

looking at those other two trades... it wasn't Beauchemin for Gardiner +. Lupul was considered a big "-", and the price we had to pay in addition to Beauch for Gardiner... and Anaheim really wanted Beauchemin back.

As for Kaberle, he was seen as a guy who would step up given better linemates, as many thought he was done with TO and just going through the motions. And again, Chia really wanted him. The first time Burke tried for Kessel, Chia wanted Kaberle + 7th overall(which, in hind-sight...). Both of those deals involved players the other GM really coveted, more than other GMs would have... and both were teams that Burke had a history of trading with.

Unless Chicago really wants Grabo, or wants to dump some cap on us, I don't see them giving up a comparable package to what we got for Kaberle and Beauch.