JJ, you guys are just destined to piss off another player & agent with topics like this? yes? then they ask for a trade! the kid is 22 years old , leave him be! there is only 1 gretzky, lemieux, ect! he'll be a solid player in the long run!
as a longtime fan & season ticket holder i don't want to get another kick in the nuts because some media people poured gas on a fire and caused management to knee jerk react and trade a person!
here: remember the phil esposito trade, the toni tanti trade, the jeremy roenick trade, the belfour trade,the chelios trade! i know some of them were caused by ownership in the past but the bottom line is that a hostile enviroment caused the situation and we wound up getting stiffed and not fair value:
if you want to trade kane to the sabres, i'm stan bowman and i'm saying " vanek, pominville,myers & miller ALL in the deal or hang up!! end of story! in other words the conversation would last 20 seconds period! it ain't happening!
you want to call guys out, start with bickell, hjalmersson FRICKEN NICK LEDDY,frolik, ect! guys that refuse to play hard and check and get dirty! guys that should be wearing a skirt in the ice capades rather than playing in the NHL!
you get my point JJ! just don't need that controversy right now! leave the kid be! i'm tired of everyone giving leddy a pass, yeah the kid is 20, but he's a D man and he's got size! grow some balls nick and put a body on someone when you need to! this is big boy hockey! same with hjalmer! JJ you can't tell me for 1 minute that crawford wouldn't have loved to break that stick over leddy's head the other night instead of the net, he was so mad but took the high road! i'm sure he told him in the room to "grow a set already will ya!"
how about we just wait and see what stan bowman does in the next month and what the team looks like once all the injuries are all healed!
hopefully stan adds a guy like paul gausted who has some of the tools we are looking for and slot him into the 3rd line role and move up bolland between hossa & sharp.
i'm still not sold on stalberg, i don't see john leclair written anywhere in the same sentence in the future which is what tazer and kane actually need !
i feel stalberg will eventually be written in the same sentence as ken yaremchuk or peter marsh, "geez i got the puck , i'm fast , what do i do with it!" thats where i see stalberg fitting in ! JMO only!
would love to see stan add tim gleason also and keep him past this year.
also for what it's worth scott should be playing wing on the fourth ahead of bickell and a couple of others now until they figure it out. give me a guy that gives it his all every nite and he's playing ahead of a few of these carpet riders!
jimmy hayes will be a nice player but he probably needs some more work in rockford with his skating!
lastly, loosing torch behind the bench hurt! thats all i'm going to say, you guys connect the dots! later everyone!

You know, in all this trade talk a few things seem to be lost.

1. If Viktor Stalberg keeps up his career year, there's your top 6 forward addition the team was looking for.

2. Same goes for Shaw and Hayes. We were looking for bottom 6 physical forwards who can help with the forecheck and chip in offensively. I think these 2 kids are good enough to fill those roles.

These are 2 areas that, with a little luck and above all, a lot of patience, the team filled from within. That's what successful franchsies do. They fill holes from within and plug whatever is left with trades. Detroit has been doing this for years.

A centerman and a defenseman. That's all they need to be legit contenders in the West. That's why I keep bringing up a trade that I would be inquiring about if I were SB...Mark Streit and Frans Nielsen would be great additions to this team and would help us in a lot of ways. I don't even think they would be that expensive to get.

Trading Patrick Kane for a 2nd line forward, a 2nd pairing dman and a prospect or two makes this team worse, not better.

If I had a shopping list, this would be it (in no particular order), considering who MIGHT be available and who the Hawks could afford in terms of a return:

Forwards:
Tuomo Ruutu
Chad Larose
Derick Brassard
Sam Gagner
Derek Roy
Paul Gaustad
Dominic Moore
Frans Nielsen

Defensemen:
Mark Streit
Tim Gleason
Bryan Allen
Hal Gill
Pavel Kubina
Michal Rozsival
Scott Hannan

Now considering how many teams are after the same things as the Hawks, all of these players become exponentially more expensive to acquire. By the same logic though, the closer we get to the deadline, the more the available player pool grows and the lower the acquisition price becomes. The key for the Hawks is that they are not a bubble team (yet).

They are putting up wins and points at a good enough clip that they can afford the luxury of patience, which usually pays off in the end. It gives them more time to find the right players, and to pay less of a price to get them. The key is not waiting too long so that all the available players are gone. That's where the good GMs get separated from the great ones. As in most things in life, timing is everything.
- andru2797

I think Roy from Buffalo and Hal Gil from MTL both can be acquired for prospect type players or picks. Both MTL and Buffalo are done. Prospects and Picks may be attractive to them both in the next 3 weeks or so.

I think Roy from Buffalo and Hal Gil from MTL both can be acquired for prospect type players or picks. Both MTL and Buffalo are done. Prospects and Picks may be attractive to them both in the next 3 weeks or so.
- mrpaulish

whoever wrote that list!!!! NICE & RIGHT ON! maybe with the exception of the stalberg part.

They didn't need to kill the penalty, they needed to score. There was 1:51 left in the game. You don't bury all your forwards deep in your defensive zone to kill a penalty with less than 2 minutes left in a game when you're down a goal. You always float a guy high looking to make an outlet pass for a breakaway in that situation. Kane was doing exactly what he should have been doing in that situation.

Any squirt coach could tell you that...
- DirtyAuldTown

I get it. But it is a very low percentage play. Nashville is up by 1. They have 5 men in the attacking zone and the Hawks have 3. All Nashville has to do is work the puck around the perimeter. If the Hawks overplay (which they would have to in order to possibly spring Kane), Nashville very well goes up 2. Don't they?

Is that the ONLY play in that situation? No.

Whatever, you've got it all figured out.

Look I cant speak to why he got selected by Babcock to the Canadian team and I dont think you could speak to why Babcok selected him either its simply speculation. We cant conclude that since Babcock selects him to his team then he plays defense. And hasnt Babcock only selected players for one Canadian national team the 2010 olympic team. Kane gets selected to the US teams.

But I watch a lot of hockey and eyes dont lie. Nash takes a lot of time off in the defensive zone and thats simply a fact. You dont consistently score over 60 points in your career and end up a minus 73 for a career because your a defensive player. When I watch Columbus games he does a lot of the same things Kane does. Hes slow on changes, he cheats at the Defensive blue line, hes slow on the backcheck and he takes shifts off when things dont go his way. Yes hes bigger and is a possession type player whos hard to knock off the puck and is tough in the corners in the offensive zone but personally I would not take him over Kane for the reasons I've already mentioned in previous posts including the fact hes 1.5 million more then Kane at a pretty big 7.8 million cap hit. .

If you would thats great.
- mvp0207

I'm pretty sure I see Nash more than you do, as I go to 20+ games a year at Nationwide. FWIW.

-73? Look at the teams he has been playing on. I like +/- as a stat but you have to view it in context.

This year, he has been like Kane only worse— totally in a funk and I think he would welcome a trade. As would most anyone in that mess.

I'm not saying he's better than Kane. But below the circles and around the net, few players are better, including Kane. And he can play defense, too.

No doubt that Kanes spot is the half boards. He Lives on the half boards but hes really really good at playing in that spot. Teemu Sellane has made a HOF career playing from there. I think a team could use both below the net type crashers and half board type playmakers.
- mvp0207

Selanne is a different kind of player than Kane, much, much more effective in the heavy going.

Go back a few pages and read RickJ's take on Kane's game. Fair and bang on. A perimeter player—the best in the league— but in a sport where perimeter players are not terribly valuable.

Great write up today by Jahns on Hossa..
http://www.suntimes.com/s...golden-to-blackhawks.html.

[quote=wonthecup10]JJ, you guys are just destined to piss off another player & agent with topics like this? yes? then they ask for a trade! the kid is 22 years old , leave him be! there is only 1 gretzky, lemieux, ect! he'll be a solid player in the long run!
as a longtime fan & season ticket holder i don't want to get another kick in the nuts because some media people poured gas on a fire and caused management to knee jerk react and trade a person!
here: remember the phil esposito trade, the toni tanti trade, the jeremy roenick trade, the belfour trade,the chelios trade! i know some of them were caused by ownership in the past but the bottom line is that a hostile enviroment caused the situation and we wound up getting stiffed and not fair value:
if you want to trade kane to the sabres, i'm stan bowman and i'm saying " vanek, pominville,myers & miller ALL in the deal or hang up!! end of story! in other words the conversation would last 20 seconds period! it ain't happening!
you want to call guys out, start with bickell, hjalmersson FRICKEN NICK LEDDY,frolik, ect! guys that refuse to play hard and check and get dirty! guys that should be wearing a skirt in the ice capades rather than playing in the NHL!
you get my point JJ! just don't need that controversy right now! leave the kid be! i'm tired of everyone giving leddy a pass, yeah the kid is 20, but he's a D man and he's got size! grow some balls nick and put a body on someone when you need to! this is big boy hockey! same with hjalmer! JJ you can't tell me for 1 minute that crawford wouldn't have loved to break that stick over leddy's head the other night instead of the net, he was so mad but took the high road! i'm sure he told him in the room to "grow a set already will ya!"
how about we just wait and see what stan bowman does in the next month and what the team looks like once all the injuries are all healed!
hopefully stan adds a guy like paul gausted who has some of the tools we are looking for and slot him into the 3rd line role and move up bolland between hossa & sharp.
i'm still not sold on stalberg, i don't see john leclair written anywhere in the same sentence in the future which is what tazer and kane actually need !
i feel stalberg will eventually be written in the same sentence as ken yaremchuk or peter marsh, "geez i got the puck , i'm fast , what do i do with it!" thats where i see stalberg fitting in ! JMO only!
would love to see stan add tim gleason also and keep him past this year.
also for what it's worth scott should be playing wing on the fourth ahead of bickell and a couple of others now until they figure it out. give me a guy that gives it his all every nite and he's playing ahead of a few of these carpet riders!
jimmy hayes will be a nice player but he probably needs some more work in rockford with his skating!
lastly, loosing torch behind the bench hurt! thats all i'm going to say, you guys connect the dots!


WITHOUT A DOUBT BEST QUOTE IN TWO DAYS, MAKES PERFECT SENSE AS ANY TALK ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT KANER WILL BE TRADED IS JUST PLAIN STUPID, IT'S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN AND FOR ALL THE REASONS ABOVE IT SHOULD NOT HAPPEN

You are entitled to disagree, I have no problem with that.

It's simply the Good Big Man vs Good Little Man Theory.

And whether right or wrong, most NHL GM's believe in that. And if not Nash, the next guy who would be snapped up in a jiffy is Getzlaf - because he is a horse and GM's like horses better than ponies.
- RickJ

It's a physical sport.

The comparison SCON made could apply to Kane and Toews, too. But we all know who's more valuable, don't we?

I get it. But it is a very low percentage play. Nashville is up by 1. They have 5 men in the attacking zone and the Hawks have 3. All Nashville has to do is work the puck around the perimeter. If the Hawks overplay (which they would have to in order to possibly spring Kane), Nashville very well goes up 2. Don't they?

Is that the ONLY play in that situation? No.

Whatever, you've got it all figured out.
- John Jaeckel

tough one JJ, but i see both your points on this one. it could go either way. let's just see what happens during the break & after. hopefully SB has it in high gear!i would hate to come back after 9 on the road , on the ouside looking in!
actually we'll be at MSG for that one! hopefully watching 1 or 2 new hawks also!

Great points.. And I personally believe Kane's best years are ahead of him.
- ilinkhawk

So do the Hawks. It is not a bad bet. Not a sure thing either.

Selanne is a different kind of player than Kane, much, much more effective in the heavy going.

Go back a few pages and read RickJ's take on Kane's game. Fair and bang on. A perimeter player—the best in the league— but in a sport where perimeter players are not terribly valuable.
- John Jaeckel

Kane doesn't play physical. But I would not call him purely a perimeter player. Even so.. Are you saying Kane hasn't been "terribly valuable" to this team since he arrived?

I'm pretty sure I see Nash more than you do, as I go to 20+ games a year at Nationwide. FWIW.

-73? Look at the teams he has been playing on. I like +/- as a stat but you have to view it in context.

This year, he has been like Kane only worse— totally in a funk and I think he would welcome a trade. As would most anyone in that mess.

I'm not saying he's better than Kane. But below the circles and around the net, few players are better, including Kane. And he can play defense, too.
- John Jaeckel

He's also been one of the leaders in +/- among forwards on his team the past few years. I don't have the stats in front of me but i've had this conversation before. His first 2 or 3 years were with an absolutely terrible team and the bulk of that terrible +/- was from that. Since, he's been fine statistically, not that I think he's bad defensively anyways. He's having a bad year this year and like fans from other teams, like vultures, they'll suggest he has no value because of it. We all know how that works.

+/- is the most over-used stat ever for saying a specific player is good or bad defensively. Spezza had a crazy high +/- a few years back when he was a floater, wasn't because he was Datsyuk. Look at it relative to his own team and relative to his own team, Nash's numbers have only been real bad this year using the last few years as a sample size.

So do the Hawks. It is not a bad bet. Not a sure thing either.
- John Jaeckel

Most things are not sure bets.. Not many players peak at 23 however.

[quote=wonthecup10]JJ, you guys are just destined to piss off another player & agent with topics like this? yes? then they ask for a trade! the kid is 22 years old , leave him be! there is only 1 gretzky, lemieux, ect! he'll be a solid player in the long run!
as a longtime fan & season ticket holder i don't want to get another kick in the nuts because some media people poured gas on a fire and caused management to knee jerk react and trade a person!
here: remember the phil esposito trade, the toni tanti trade, the jeremy roenick trade, the belfour trade,the chelios trade! i know some of them were caused by ownership in the past but the bottom line is that a hostile enviroment caused the situation and we wound up getting stiffed and not fair value:
if you want to trade kane to the sabres, i'm stan bowman and i'm saying " vanek, pominville,myers & miller ALL in the deal or hang up!! end of story! in other words the conversation would last 20 seconds period! it ain't happening!
you want to call guys out, start with bickell, hjalmersson FRICKEN NICK LEDDY,frolik, ect! guys that refuse to play hard and check and get dirty! guys that should be wearing a skirt in the ice capades rather than playing in the NHL!
you get my point JJ! just don't need that controversy right now! leave the kid be! i'm tired of everyone giving leddy a pass, yeah the kid is 20, but he's a D man and he's got size! grow some balls nick and put a body on someone when you need to! this is big boy hockey! same with hjalmer! JJ you can't tell me for 1 minute that crawford wouldn't have loved to break that stick over leddy's head the other night instead of the net, he was so mad but took the high road! i'm sure he told him in the room to "grow a set already will ya!"
how about we just wait and see what stan bowman does in the next month and what the team looks like once all the injuries are all healed!
hopefully stan adds a guy like paul gausted who has some of the tools we are looking for and slot him into the 3rd line role and move up bolland between hossa & sharp.
i'm still not sold on stalberg, i don't see john leclair written anywhere in the same sentence in the future which is what tazer and kane actually need !
i feel stalberg will eventually be written in the same sentence as ken yaremchuk or peter marsh, "geez i got the puck , i'm fast , what do i do with it!" thats where i see stalberg fitting in ! JMO only!
would love to see stan add tim gleason also and keep him past this year.
also for what it's worth scott should be playing wing on the fourth ahead of bickell and a couple of others now until they figure it out. give me a guy that gives it his all every nite and he's playing ahead of a few of these carpet riders!
jimmy hayes will be a nice player but he probably needs some more work in rockford with his skating!
lastly, loosing torch behind the bench hurt! thats all i'm going to say, you guys connect the dots!


WITHOUT A DOUBT BEST QUOTE IN TWO DAYS, MAKES PERFECT SENSE AS ANY TALK ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT KANER WILL BE TRADED IS JUST PLAIN STUPID, IT'S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN AND FOR ALL THE REASONS ABOVE IT SHOULD NOT HAPPEN
- Maggie

thanks maggie, i guess you lived through the same crap back in the day also!
don't want to see that again!

Well, at least there is hope for making a run at the Carolina D men:

From TSN

"Carolina Hurricanes GM Jim Rutherford told the Charlotte Observer that Joni Pitkanen's injury status (concussion, injured reserve) would not necessarily inhibit any potential trades involving the defenceman.

And by trading away potential unrestricted free agent Alexei Ponikarovsky to the Devils, there is speculation that the club's other potential UFA's - Tim Gleason, Bryan Allen and Jaroslav Spacek - could be moved as well.

"If we were to trade a UFA for a veteran player, we would want control of him next year or the next few years," explained Rutherford. "Usually, we have looked to bring in younger players, but a hockey deal where a veteran player is under contract also is a possibility."

Read more in the Charlotte Observer."

I get it. But it is a very low percentage play. Nashville is up by 1. They have 5 men in the attacking zone and the Hawks have 3. All Nashville has to do is work the puck around the perimeter. If the Hawks overplay (which they would have to in order to possibly spring Kane), Nashville very well goes up 2. Don't they?

Is that the ONLY play in that situation? No.

Whatever, you've got it all figured out.
- John Jaeckel

Which play gives you a higher percentage at getting the goal you need to tie the game?

1) Keep all forwards down to kill the PP while Nashville works the puck around the perimeter and plays keep-away until time runs out or, if things go perfectly, you get control of the puck and work it up the ice 4-5 and try to get your goalie out so you can play 5-5 for maybe 45 seconds with an empty net

2) Float a forward high to look for a home run pass that leads to a breakaway with the best 1-0 player you have available to you in that game

I see your point, that they could have tried to keep everybody down and get possession, but getting the breakaway pass is what most coaches would look for and I'm sure that's why Q put Kane on the ice. Given the fact that he NEVER kills penalties normally, it would make logical sense that Q wanted him out there to look for a quick offensive chance. Kane was doing what he was supposed to do. If there's anyone to be upset with, it's Stalberg for jumping on the ice way too early and taking an unnecessary penalty when the Hawks could least afford it.

Still not convinced that adding a few players via the trade route changes the complexion of this team. Unless, it is a major trade! A change in coaching philosophy, however would be a different story.

And quit blaming Leddy for the second goal the other night. Hornquist made an unbelievable play to intercept a pass, and kick the puck out front to Fischer. You can"t defend something like that.

Kane doesn't play physical. But I would not call him purely a perimeter player. Even so.. Are you saying Kane hasn't been "terribly valuable" to this team since he arrived?
- ilinkhawk

At times he has been. At others, not so much. He's a really good player. He has weaknesses. And he is not one of the top 10 or even top 15 players in the game. Some won't like that. TOUGH.

Great write up today by Jahns on Hossa..
http://www.suntimes.com/s...golden-to-blackhawks.html.
- ilinkhawk

UC crowd needs to start throwing Kit-Kat bars on the ice when he scores

Kane doesn't play physical. But I would not call him purely a perimeter player. Even so.. Are you saying Kane hasn't been "terribly valuable" to this team since he arrived?
- ilinkhawk

He was throwing his body around during the Nashville game and consistently had 2-3 opposing players swarming him every time he touched the puck. He has had a pretty strong injury history based on the amount of abuse he takes considering his stature.

Which play gives you a higher percentage at getting the goal you need to tie the game?

1) Keep all forwards down to kill the PP while Nashville works the puck around the perimeter and plays keep-away until time runs out or, if things go perfectly, you get control of the puck and work it up the ice 4-5 and try to get your goalie out so you can play 5-5 for maybe 45 seconds with an empty net

2) Float a forward high to look for a home run pass that leads to a breakaway with the best 1-0 player you have available to you in that game

I see your point, that they could have tried to keep everybody down and get possession, but getting the breakaway pass is what most coaches would look for and I'm sure that's why Q put Kane on the ice. Given the fact that he NEVER kills penalties normally, it would make logical sense that Q wanted him out there to look for a quick offensive chance. Kane was doing what he was supposed to do. If there's anyone to be upset with, it's Stalberg for jumping on the ice way too early and taking an unnecessary penalty when the Hawks could least afford it.
- arobb01

5 on 3 with Weber and Suter at the points.

Blame Stalberg there I guess, but Quenneville and the staff are ultimately to blame because it happens WAY too often, Please.

I see both arguments. I am not sure it was the right play. Probably not Kane's fault, although I don't know what was drawn up either, and for that I was wrong.

Either way, aside from one brilliant pass to Stalberg, Kane was not great in that game. The Hawks need him to be great when Toews and Sharp are out. Can anyone dispute that?

Amazes me how people keep overlooking that and making excuses. If someone told me today he was hurt— that's a different story. I have not heard or seen that however.

At times he has been. At others, not so much. He's a really good player. He has weaknesses. And he is not one of the top 10 or even top 15 players in the game. Some won't like that. TOUGH.
- John Jaeckel

I don't disagree with your points. But the same people ragging on him now were praising him earlier this season... And you know what? The same people will be jumping back on when he lights it up again. I think it's typical Chicago sport fan bs..

Great write up today by Jahns on Hossa..
http://www.suntimes.com/s...golden-to-blackhawks.html.
- ilinkhawk

Funny, listening to him with Sirott andf Troy the other night on the radio after the game, I thought to myself, he would make a great NHL coach some day. And I would not be terribly surprised at all to see him eventually coach the Slovak national team.

I also remember the crap I took on the HotStove blog over the summer for saying he was a dark horse Hart Candidate.

He was throwing his body around during the Nashville game and consistently had 2-3 opposing players swarming him every time he touched the puck. He has had a pretty strong injury history based on the amount of abuse he takes considering his stature.
- fattybeef

Agreed.. He is around the net alot as well. Completely over exaggeration as usual when it comes to Kane.