He scored the two most crucial goals in the playoffs when the team won the cup, both at absolutely crucial times, one to keep the Hawks alive (yes, I know they wouldn't have been eliminated, but they would have been in big trouble if they didn't win that game against the Preds) and one to win the cup in OT. You can't possibly say that he shown he disappears when the going gets tough. Yes, he's having a bad year, but that statement is indefensible.
- arobb01

The greatness of Patrick you are referring to are over 1.5 yrs ago and the cup winning goal was a lucky goal - not from his greatness

If they can't get 30-35 points in 32 games, then they don't deserve to make the playoffs.
- arobb01

This isn't a terrible team the way teams play in the regular season: probably not designed for play-off longevity, but a top-10 team in the regular season.

They have played the best teams in the league (Van, SJ, Detr, Nash, St.L) at a .500 level so far - maybe you can say they caught some teams at the right time, I don't know, my guess (again, GUESS) is that they will continue to play them at that rate the rest of the season. They have proven they can consistently (with some blow-ups) play the rest of the teams well.

I would guess +3 to +7 (above .500) the rest of the way and 100+ points on the season. Enough for home-ice? Maybe not - but this isn't the NBA, road teams win often in the NHL play-offs.

Hmm... Mike Keenan. THAT would be 180 degrees

Would love to see Haviland get a chance, but I'm not sure you remove a coach who is 3 points out of first place and replace him with someone from the current bench. After a playoff miss/failure maybe.

Not sure who that would be. What current coaches out there would you consider?
- TheTrob

So now were done with dealing Kane and we've moved on to canning Q? Give me a break!! Let's take the ridiculous and stupid out of this conversation

Anyone interested in joining an online NHL 12 league...looking to fill it with all hockeybuzz users

40 more points gets them to 104 points - and, looking at the teams on the bubble now (Minn, Cal, Col, Phoenix, LA), they need 40+ to get to 95: certainly 3 of them will not be able to be +9 or +10 the rest of the way. I'm guessing 94-96, like last year, will be the cut-off.
- StLBravesFan

Agree on the 104....But I wrote today only two teams in the West have played 29 out of their first 50 games at home, Chi and LA.

We will have a much better idea of possible point totals for the season after the next three weeks.

Agree on the 104....But I wrote today only two teams in the West have played 29 out of their first 50 games at home, Chi and LA.

We will have a much better idea of possible point totals for the season after the next three weeks.
- Al

Yeah - but what fun is it to wait and see what happens - instead of showing our vast knowledge (or total ignorance) well ahead of time?

The greatness of Patrick you are referring to are over 1.5 yrs ago and the cup winning goal was a lucky goal - not from his greatness
- dpard

1. I never referred to any greatness. I simply stated that he scored two crucial goals. This point was made to contend with your statement that he has been shown to disappear under difficult circumstances. Yes, he may have gotten lucky or gotten tap in goals, but putting yourself in the right position to succeed is a big part of the game too.

2. He's been in the league for 4+ seasons and been nearly a point per game player. He helped restore a franchise to greatness after a decade of mediocrity. Yes, this year has been bad, compared to what he did in previous years, but to make a blanket statement like "he always fades under pressure" is totally indefensible.

The greatness of Patrick you are referring to are over 1.5 yrs ago and the cup winning goal was a lucky goal - not from his greatness
- dpard

The shot was right where Kane wanted it but the save should have been made. He didn't wilt in the Finals though....

Really a soft goal rather than a fluky goal.

Yeah - but what fun is it to wait and see what happens - instead of showing our vast knowledge (or total ignorance) well ahead of time?
- StLBravesFan

I am all for informed opinions....

I might be aiming a few points high, as given their road record to date, home ice would be critical for them this year. So a 100+ season would be needed to get a home ice matchup in round one.

That being said, even 30-35 points in the last 32 games, 20 of which are on the road, and that they have played only .500 since 12/15 with most of those games at home, leads me to believe they will be grasping just to make it in.

Given their opponents in this final stretch, and their abysmal 24th in the league in total goals against, it would take a near 180 degree turnaround to ensure they make it in this year.
- Return of the Roar

Wow, step back off the ledge. If they play .500 for the rest of the year they end at 96 points. The next closest team to them is 6 points behind, and then it falls off even more. You think one of Colorado, Dallas, Calgary, Phoenix or Minnesota is going to make up 10+ points in the last 30 games? I would tend to think not.

St. Louis and LA took the two best candidates off the market. Although I will grant, Quenneville getting replaced is probably more likely than Kane getting dealt. Bowman I think had a lot to do with Babcock replacing Dave Lewis in Detroit. And with Q replacing Savard. Wonder who he'd pick. Wonder also if he isn't waiting for that guy to come free.
- John Jaeckel

Lindy Ruff

Without a doubt, 29 teams would get on the phone if he was available.

I think that management feels another hitter on the backside and one up front helps in a playoff run, but this team lives and dies around what Toews digs deep to create, and the shooting mastery of the other top snipers Hossa and Sharp, and Kane.
They will expect strong contributions from Brunette, and everyone on the bottom end.
That means that league-leading most 4 goal or games has to continue in the post season.
I have got to feel that management and staff feel Kane becomes a difference maker in the playoffs as he has in the past.
They probably feel good about filling the parent club and the mid-lines and bottom end for the next half dozen years with the kids thay have.

But no one can convince me they have a difference maker there as of yet.

Kane can be a difference maker.
Even in that Nationally televised game where Milbury droned on about how Kane was puzzled, befuddled, and in a funk, I thought he generated quality chances.
In the games since, he seems on fire at various junctures, and to me, is one of the better creators up front, despite the lack of goals for his efforts.

The passes haven't gone in, the shots haven't gone in.

I just don't see a lack of effort on his part.

The very fact they can stay in the attack zone and change their lines as they have done successfully at times all year tells me he is doing something with the other elite players they have.

I felt Q may have been better off shaking all the lines up and then if it was not working go to the line combos he started with.
When Pirri was up before he played well with Bickell and Stalberg. It is Bickell's first chance to get on the ice in awhile - why not take advantage of that past strength.
and i play Brunette with kane because Bruno will get him the puck TO distribute?
That was off track...so back to Kane trade.

Unless you snag a Parise at this juncture, you don't trade the potential of what home town boy kane can do in the payoff for the hawks fto Buffalo for an overpayment of an average size Roy, smaller Pominville, (or Stafford as Pominville isn't who they are interested in trading) EVEN if they throw in the big kid Kassian for one simple reason:
None can do what Kane can.
He is simply the best of those players, despite all the particulars.

Now don't get me incorrect here! If this playoff is one where Kane clearly doesn't show up, play his hardest and have results, then in the Spring maybe I look for a goos solid multi-player return.

BUT you BETTER feel that the guys making ther way up and the return all add significant skill to the team and that the return doesn't logjam where you think you may have comers...

If you could get a really fine defenseman who is contracted up (or will sign here at number that doesn't jar the set pecking order) or a fine young goalie who looks to be a fire-lighter for Crawford, then I say at least you traded an elite talent and filled need.

But doesn't trading Kane just create another hole similar to the necessary Brian Campbell Cap launch?

I would LOVE to think teams WOULD over pay for a crack at acquiring him, and his baby faces marketing campaign they gain, but would they REALLY?!!!!!!!!?

So now were done with dealing Kane and we've moved on to canning Q? Give me a break!! Let's take the ridiculous and stupid out of this conversation
- Maggie

Just speculating like everyone else. It will NOT happen mid season unless there is something like a LONG losing streak or obvious evidence that the team has quit on him.

That being said, this team good, bad or otherwise was built by Bowman with the thought that they would be a contender. If he believes that, and believes that the right pieces are here, then the person to go will be Q. If the "powers that be" i.e. Rocky and McDonough believe that the team was not a contender because of the way it was constructed then Bowman goes. Don't fool yourself into thinking the latter will happen anytime soon. Bowman has a bunch more leash than Q.

Amazing, amusing and kinda sad. I thought I heard his dad was kinda hard on him when he was a kid. Definitely had his demons, but also a real man's man in a lot of ways. Seems like a nice old guy now who really cherishes his memories and his return to the limelight.
- John Jaeckel

JJ, have you every read the little book called "The Third Best Hull" by Dennis? Subtitle is "I Should Have Been Fourth But They Wouldn't Let My Sister Maxine Play"

Book is full of hilarious lines - couple of them in there:

1) Bobby was single for 6 months and one day he told me he kept getting red eyes after having sex. I said 'Bobby, maybe it's the mace".

2) My old man wanted me to be a garbage man - he thought they only worked on Thursdays.

The old man worked in a cement plant for 47 years and was a big tough guy who apparently was real hard on his boys but in a loving way, they didn't hate him.

To me, Bobby is still the most exciting player I ever watched. I don't care if he was a drunk.

One question: If you knew that Hawks will have D problems today, would you have traded Cambell in the offseason?

The way I see it:
Campbell at $7.15M > Montador + Olesz at $5.875M combined

You saved $1.25M in salary over 3 years + $4.4 in year 4 + $7.15M in year 5. Yet, on ice, would you rather have Campbell than Montador? Plus, how much further would Leddy be if he did not have to play top 4 minutes?

I do understand that Olesz is in the minors and you save $3.125 cap space, but you still have to pay the guy, and he will be back up one way or another.

Can you find a D-man out there w/ cap space you have, who could replace Campbell and what do you have to give up to get that D-man.

Somehow the numbers do not add up for me.

Wow, step back off the ledge. If they play .500 for the rest of the year they end at 96 points. The next closest team to them is 6 points behind, and then it falls off even more. You think one of Colorado, Dallas, Calgary, Phoenix or Minnesota is going to make up 10+ points in the last 30 games? I would tend to think not.
- TheTrob

The Hawks have at least one game against all of those teams, and two more against DAL and MIN. That's 14 points right there. They have lost to COL 1x, PHO 2x, CAL 1x, DAL 1x this year.

They play NSH 3x, DET 3x, STL 4x, VAN 2x, LAK 2x, NYR 1x, SJ 1x, OTT 1x, TOR 1x, EDM 1x and CAL 1x. How many of those do they get?

.500 may even be a stretch with that schedule.

An 80 point player in 2007-2008..

66 has been his highest since.

I don't mind the guy but not for Kane.. You'd have to include Tyler Myers

This is a franchise player.. (Allen Iverson)
- pri$ey

The Hawks could of had Tyler Myers, but Dale Tallon, in his infinite wisdom as General Manager, took Kyle Beach!!!! For all the drafting credit Tallon has received, whom has he drafted that really made an impact (not including Toews or Kane, who were obvious picks where they were drafted). Bolland, who was graded as a first round pick and slipped to the top of the second round. Who else? My point is drafting is a crapshoot and other than the top picks of the draft all you have is potential. Hopefully Stan has looked at who is in the pipeline and graded them accordingly and makes a move soon, before the season gets away from them. Shaw, though, seems to be a steal in the fifth round of his third draft!!!!! LOVE the kid's motor!!!!

Lets remember that we lost to the Preds twice w/o two of our best players and a goaltender who got beat from center ice. Nashville is good. But like we saw in the cup run, skill will prevail. Detroit was lucky to beat us twice, and the Rangers are coming back down to earth. I think replication of the first half of the season is do able, but we need to remeber that staying healthy is most important. As for Kane, we may be the only team that is skeptical about a player that has 41 points at the all star break. He is an asset and like I mentioned previously in my post Getzlaf or Parise are the only other viable options. With the realignment next year Columbus is still in our conference, so a nash for kane deal is unlikely.

With 6 million under the cap, they have room to gain a big name or names. They're still one of the best teams in hockey and going to get even better before March. I look for addition only, with Hopefully Bickell going and hopefully Frolik. They need a Centerman, a big "D" and perhaps a goalie as JJ stated.
- dstarz20

What people here don't understand is Detroit, who will probably will be up by 5 points after tonight, has a very favorable schedule the rest of the way, and has even MORE money than the Hawks to add at the deadline with LESS holes than the Hawks. Kiss the division goodbye...

Without a doubt, 29 teams would get on the phone if he was available.

I think that management feels another hitter on the backside and one up front helps in a playoff run, but this team lives and dies around what Toews digs deep to create, and the shooting mastery of the other top snipers Hossa and Sharp, and Kane.
They will expect strong contributions from Brunette, and everyone on the bottom end.
That means that league-leading most 4 goal or games has to continue in the post season.
I have got to feel that management and staff feel Kane becomes a difference maker in the playoffs as he has in the past.
They probably feel good about filling the parent club and the mid-lines and bottom end for the next half dozen years with the kids thay have.

But no one can convince me they have a difference maker there as of yet.

Kane can be a difference maker.
Even in that Nationally televised game where Milbury droned on about how Kane was puzzled, befuddled, and in a funk, I thought he generated quality chances.
In the games since, he seems on fire at various junctures, and to me, is one of the better creators up front, despite the lack of goals for his efforts.

The passes haven't gone in, the shots haven't gone in.

I just don't see a lack of effort on his part.

The very fact they can stay in the attack zone and change their lines as they have done successfully at times all year tells me he is doing something with the other elite players they have.

I felt Q may have been better off shaking all the lines up and then if it was not working go to the line combos he started with.
When Pirri was up before he played well with Bickell and Stalberg. It is Bickell's first chance to get on the ice in awhile - why not take advantage of that past strength.
and i play Brunette with kane because Bruno will get him the puck TO distribute?
That was off track...so back to Kane trade.

Unless you snag a Parise at this juncture, you don't trade the potential of what home town boy kane can do in the payoff for the hawks fto Buffalo for an overpayment of an average size Roy, smaller Pominville, (or Stafford as Pominville isn't who they are interested in trading) EVEN if they throw in the big kid Kassian for one simple reason:
None can do what Kane can.
He is simply the best of those players, despite all the particulars.

Now don't get me incorrect here! If this playoff is one where Kane clearly doesn't show up, play his hardest and have results, then in the Spring maybe I look for a goos solid multi-player return.

BUT you BETTER feel that the guys making ther way up and the return all add significant skill to the team and that the return doesn't logjam where you think you may have comers...

If you could get a really fine defenseman who is contracted up (or will sign here at number that doesn't jar the set pecking order) or a fine young goalie who looks to be a fire-lighter for Crawford, then I say at least you traded an elite talent and filled need.

But doesn't trading Kane just create another hole similar to the necessary Brian Campbell Cap launch?

I would LOVE to think teams WOULD over pay for a crack at acquiring him, and his baby faces marketing campaign they gain, but would they REALLY?!!!!!!!!?
- wiz1901

Yes ....Kane leaving would create a big hole and would only be offset by changing to another style of play.

Calling up Pirri and not playing him with players who could play off of him was dumb....And scratchy Frolik against a team you need to be tight defensively on...Also made littles sense.

One question: If you knew that Hawks will have D problems today, would you have traded Cambell in the offseason?

The way I see it:
Campbell at $7.15M > Montador + Olesz at $5.875M combined

You saved $1.25M in salary over 3 years + $4.4 in year 4 + $7.15M in year 5. Yet, on ice, would you rather have Campbell than Montador? Plus, how much further would Leddy be if he did not have to play top 4 minutes?

I do understand that Olesz is in the minors and you save $3.125 cap space, but you still have to pay the guy, and he will be back up one way or another.

Can you find a D-man out there w/ cap space you have, who could replace Campbell and what do you have to give up to get that D-man.

Somehow the numbers do not add up for me.
- Nerko77

Year four and year five are big savings and no doubt the Hawks wanted the flexibility more than Campbell. You won't find a better fit than a Tallon team that was $30 mill under the cap.

Joining this one late and don't have time to read all the posts, but what about Kane for Getzlaf and a 3rd?

Getzlaf makes us tough down the middle like the Pens and adds a physical power game between Sharp and maybe Shaw.

Stalberg-Toews-Hossa
Sharp-Getzlaf-Shaw
Frolik-Bolland-Kruger
Brunette-Mayers-Smith

interesting....that said, never gonna happen.

Holy crap, I step away from my computer for a day and all hell breaks loose. I'm a little late to the party, but had to add my $.02.

I've said before (often), here it comes again...Toews is the ONLY untouchable on the roster. However, it would take one hell of a deal for me to unload Kane. You don't trade a player of Kane's calibre without getting established star players(s) in return. You cannot give up a young, star player, who's contractually locked up for multiple years, for anything less than equally established/signed star power. Kane for multiple picks/prospects/Pending UFA's/middle tier players ain't gonna cut it. Kane for Nash? Maybe, but when all is said and done, I still think we're talking about trading the wrong Patrick.


P.S. For the clown who wanted to trade Seabs for Buff...put the bong away pal, just put it down and walk away...please.

Great piece JJ, well presented.

Since we are in semi hypothetical land, let me submit this to idea for consideration.

While Q may have been the perfect coach for this team a few years ago, I theorize that perhaps his style and approach to a maturing group is not evolving itself. That is as a result, you have a rigid micro manager that players are tired of walking on egg shells around.

So is Q and his style/culture a hindrance to this team and its growth?
- TrueGrit

+1, and yes, it may be time for Q to go. He's been a great coach throughout his career, but there has been a reason his time has ended in two previous spots. The constant line juggling messes with developing chemistry between lines. I can see doing this once in a great while, but seemingly every game? C'mon now!!!