You know, you make a valid point as a fan with this. To some people, keeping all of the players a team drafted and won with is a great thing for the hockey fan that loves his team.

But I'll ask you if you think today's players value or exercise the same degree of allegiance to the team or its fans. I'd say definitely not. When Pat Kane gets to UFA, I submit to you that it will become all about the money and the memories and loyal fans and his Hawk jersey won't factor very seriously in his signing decision.
- RickJ

Interesting, and this is where the marketing and allegiances get mushy, Kane and Toews are marketed together. They are almost the same brand; and they have the same agent: Pat Brisson. The dollars might keep Kane in Chicago, beyond what the Hawks offer in salary.

This s a good point.

I will also add, Patrick Kane and Bobby Hull are different people and different players.

Bobby Hull could roll out of bed still drunk and deadlift 400 pounds. As
could Mickey Mantle. Those guys are the genetic exceptions, not the rule.
- John Jaeckel

Bobby Hull illustrated the perfect definition of "farm boy strong".

Amazing strength and stamina naturally.

JJ...do you know if JT and Kaner are roommates on the road? I believe they were a few years ago. If they're not buddy buddy off ice, maybe all the time spent on the road together has something to do with it.

JJ...do you know if JT and Kaner are roommates on the road? I believe they were a few years ago. If they're not buddy buddy off ice, maybe all the time spent on the road together has something to do with it.
- philco28

Don't know for sure, but I don't think so.

There would be a huge risk in dealing him. Huge return. Hard to say. Some will argue today, this hockey team needs its complexion changed.

I'll tell you right now, without some significant additions, it's not getting past round 2. And maybe not that far.
- John Jaeckel

JJ, while I don't disagree that changes will be needed to make this team a cup favorite, I don't exactly understand your guarantee here. Teams go through rough patches, have injuries, players have bad seasons, but right now the Hawks are in a competitive position and have played the majority of the "better" teams in the league very tightly. In order to make some noise in the playoffs, the Hawks need to get more consistent goalie play, add some physicality, get more production form Kane, and get healthy. With those things, I can't see how you wouldn't like their chances in a Western Conference that is pretty wide-open right now. The Blues are inexperienced, the Redwings are old, the Sharks are perennial playoff-chokers, and Vancouver has their own issues too. Obviously, making some significant additions will be a bonus for this team and would make them a cup contender, but what's with the doom and gloom?

I think the all-star break is great timing for this team to regroup and get ready for a big road trip that will do a lot more to determine the outcome of this season than the month of January has.

If Stan can make some moves that will help the team, I hope he does them as soon as possible, but the price has to be sensible.

Kane should stay. Hopefully catches fire in the second half and dishes out a lot of crow. In my opinion it's just as likely that he goes on a tear and carries the team for a while as it is that they face a first round exit.

Moreover, I don't think that this team/season should be viewed as a total failure if they don't get past the second round of the playoffs. Crazy things can happen every year, goalies can get hot, and teams can play outside of themselves in a series. Even when the Hawks had the amazingly talented cup winning team, they came very close to losing to Nashville and needed a miraculous short-handed goal from Kaner to survive. A much less talented team took a Vancouver squad that would eventually win the Western Conference to the brink.

I guess my point is, anything can happen in the playoffs and the goal should be to give yourself a legitimate chance to win the prize every year. Yes, the current team needs another piece or two to have that legitimate chance, but I'd disagree with anyone that says they have no chance. The record against other good teams, the talent on the team, and the experience/history of the team indicates otherwise.

You know, you make a valid point as a fan with this. To some people, keeping all of the players a team drafted and won with is a great thing for the hockey fan that loves his team.

But I'll ask you if you think today's players value or exercise the same degree of allegiance to the team or its fans. I'd say definitely not. When Pat Kane gets to UFA, I submit to you that it will become all about the money and the memories and loyal fans and his Hawk jersey won't factor very seriously in his signing decision.
- RickJ

Some players do. Some don't. And I believe the one's that don't, regret it. I like you sat in the UC watching a whole lot of tough however crappy, unskilled teams get pasted year in and out. I used to be able to literally put my feet up on the seat in front of me and keep my coats on the seats around me. Kane is a guy who routinely brings me out of my seat and dramatically changed that dynmamic. He is also a guy that does stuff I haven't ever seen here. If he leaves after 9 years, I will deal with it and have those memories as well. My hope however is especially him and Toews.. stay. They turned this thing around.

This s a good point.

I will also add, Patrick Kane and Bobby Hull are different people and different players.

Bobby Hull could roll out of bed still drunk and deadlift 400 pounds. As could Mickey Mantle. Those guys are the genetic exceptions, not the rule.
- John Jaeckel

This is funny. My wife and I were in a little non descript restaurant up W. Madison and the owner asked me who my favourite player was. I told him my favourite hockey player of all time was the Golden Jet.

And then he pointed to a table in the corner and said Bobby would frequently come in and sit there and kill 6 bottles of red wine by himself in an afternoon. They would probably be taking Pat Kane away in an ambulance if he sucked all that back.

There would be a huge risk in dealing him. Huge return. Hard to say. Some will argue today, this hockey team needs its complexion changed.
I'll tell you right now, without some significant additions, it's not getting past round 2. And maybe not that far.
- John Jaeckel

Start with the coach. Look what a coaching change has done for other teams without swapping out much/any players.

This is funny. My wife and I were in a little non descript restaurant up W. Madison and the owner asked me who my favourite player was. I told him my favourite hockey player of all time was the Golden Jet.

And then he pointed to a table in the corner and said Bobby would frequently come in and sit there and kill 6 bottles of red wine by himself in an afternoon. They would probably be taking Pat Kane away in an ambulance if he sucked all that back.
- RickJ

Amazing, amusing and kinda sad. I thought I heard his dad was kinda hard on him when he was a kid. Definitely had his demons, but also a real man's man in a lot of ways. Seems like a nice old guy now who really cherishes his memories and his return to the limelight.

This is an interesting proposition. When thinking about what the hawks have, Kane for Getzlaf I think brings us a cup this year or next year. Imagine Toews Centering Sharpie and Stalberg, Getzlaf Hossa and Shaw, Bolland Hayes Bickell and Mayers Frolik and Brunette. I dont see one team in the NHL with depth up the middle to that degree. I would not trade Kane to Buffalo for anyone but Vanek but Vanek with the exception of his size is the same style player. Therfor, Buffalo has nothing to offer. Parise Would not be a bad alternative. He is Familiar with Toews and is a player that could be a big time difference maker come playoff time.

This is an interesting proposition. When thinking about what the hawks have, Kane for Getzlaf I think brings us a cup this year or next year. Imagine Toews Centering Sharpie and Stalberg, Getzlaf Hossa and Shaw, Bolland Hayes Bickell and Mayers Frolik and Brunette. I dont see one team in the NHL with depth up the middle to that degree. I would not trade Kane to Buffalo for anyone but Vanek but Vanek with the exception of his size is the same style player. Therfor, Buffalo has nothing to offer. Parise Would not be a bad alternative. He is Familiar with Toews and is a player that could be a big time difference maker come playoff time.
- nickmo2699

Great, rational post. Thanks and welcome

Don't know for sure, but I don't think so.
- John Jaeckel

Thanks JJ.

An 80 point player in 2007-2008..

66 has been his highest since.

I don't mind the guy but not for Kane.. You'd have to include Tyler Myers

This is a franchise player.. (Allen Iverson)
- pri$ey

All this you'd have to include Myers stuff is a DREAM! Kane would be a Sabre in a heartbeat for a top 5 pick, Pysyk and Pominville. That's a guaranteed star in a top 5 pick, a solid blueline prospect and a vet who wears the C. If they're not giving up Myers for Getzlaff, they certainly wouldn't for Kane. I could see Miller being involved if his slumping ways continue... Summer can't get here fast enough.

JJ - good discussion points
I had mentioned a few blogs back about the idea of trading kane to fix the holes on this team - I think he brings the most value back in a trade, the possibility of filling 2 or 3 gaping holes with sending Kane + the other way is interesting.

Kane has shown that when it's a difficult go, he disappears.

Although I don't believe the Hawks will trade him, I would in a heart beat for the right retrun. I fail to see the blind love for the guy.

Start with the coach. Look what a coaching change has done for other teams without swapping out much/any players.
- TheTrob

St. Louis and LA took the two best candidates off the market. Although I will grant, Quenneville getting replaced is probably more likely than Kane getting dealt. Bowman I think had a lot to do with Babcock replacing Dave Lewis in Detroit. And with Q replacing Savard. Wonder who he'd pick. Wonder also if he isn't waiting for that guy to come free.

Some players do. Some don't. And I believe the one's that don't, regret it. I like you sat in the UC watching a whole lot of tough however crappy, unskilled teams get pasted year in and out. I used to be able to literally put my feet up on the seat in front of me and keep my coats on the seats around me. Kane is a guy who routinely brings me out of my seat and dramatically changed that dynmamic. He is also a guy that does stuff I haven't ever seen here. If he leaves after 9 years, I will deal with it and have those memories as well. My hope however is especially him and Toews.. stay. They turned this thing around.
- ilinkhawk

YOU ARE SO RIGHTTTTT

Kane trade is not going to happen. If a straight up deal for Nash was already turned down, you know Stanbow will not move him. Maybe his 'tude might have to do with hearing he was potentially bait for a deal.

The UC is sold out every night, there is a waiting list for season tickets, and they have the core for three more years. Develop your prospects, don't make stupid desperate moves, and you just might build a perennial contender.

No matter how hard we all will it to be, this year's Hawk team needs forty more points to make the playoffs in thirty two remaining games, of which twenty are on the road, and many of the games against premier teams.

The style of play this group is being asked to bring every night is no longer commensurate with the team's skills. The coaches are not playing them to their strengths, and show no signs of altering strategies.

There are too many holes to fill to make a weak finesse team strong enough to make a real run this year. And it's made worse by the fact that all they have to offer for trades are the roster problems they are trying to solve, or deals involving core players which will not result in NET beneficial enough outcomes to make a run legitimate.

Forget the Cup now - how about even making the playoffs?
- Return of the Roar

40 more points gets them to 104 points - and, looking at the teams on the bubble now (Minn, Cal, Col, Phoenix, LA), they need 40+ to get to 95: certainly 3 of them will not be able to be +9 or +10 the rest of the way. I'm guessing 94-96, like last year, will be the cut-off.

JJ - good discussion points
I had mentioned a few blogs back about the idea of trading kane to fix the holes on this team - I think he brings the most value back in a trade, the possibility of filling 2 or 3 gaping holes with sending Kane + the other way is interesting.

Kane has shown that when it's a difficult go, he disappears.

Although I don't believe the Hawks will trade him, I would in a heart beat for the right retrun. I fail to see the blind love for the guy.
- dpard

He scored the two most crucial goals in the playoffs when the team won the cup, both at absolutely crucial times, one to keep the Hawks alive (yes, I know they wouldn't have been eliminated, but they would have been in big trouble if they didn't win that game against the Preds) and one to win the cup in OT. You can't possibly say that he shown he disappears when the going gets tough. Yes, he's having a bad year, but that statement is indefensible.

"When we last saw Kane against the Predators, he was circling center ice— looking to cherry pick— leaving his teammates to kill off a penalty, essentially 3 on 5. Don't believe me, ask Pat Foley, who pointed it out..."

They didn't need to kill the penalty, they needed to score. There was 1:51 left in the game. You don't bury all your forwards deep in your defensive zone to kill a penalty with less than 2 minutes left in a game when you're down a goal. You always float a guy high looking to make an outlet pass for a breakaway in that situation. Kane was doing exactly what he should have been doing in that situation.

Any squirt coach could tell you that...

JJ with all being said, What is the move, from what you have heard, that is most likely to happen? I know for a fact that as much as I pray for Brian Bickell to get a change of scenery, he will only be moved as a part of a possibly bigger deal.

He scored the two most crucial goals in the playoffs when the team won the cup, both at absolutely crucial times, one to keep the Hawks alive (yes, I know they wouldn't have been eliminated, but they would have been in big trouble if they didn't win that game against the Preds) and one to win the cup in OT. You can't possibly say that he shown he disappears when the going gets tough. Yes, he's having a bad year, but that statement is indefensible.
- arobb01

Hot stove talk is fun and all but any attempt to make Kane the scapegoat for anything is RIDICULOUS. Yes, he floats a lot, yes, he takes dumb, lazy stick penalties, and yes, he's even overly cocky at times...but I say, KEEP HIM.

40 more points gets them to 104 points - and, looking at the teams on the bubble now (Minn, Cal, Col, Phoenix, LA), they need 40+ to get to 95: certainly 3 of them will not be able to be +9 or +10 the rest of the way. I'm guessing 94-96, like last year, will be the cut-off.
- StLBravesFan

I might be aiming a few points high, as given their road record to date, home ice would be critical for them this year. So a 100+ season would be needed to get a home ice matchup in round one.

That being said, even 30-35 points in the last 32 games, 20 of which are on the road, and that they have played only .500 since 12/15 with most of those games at home, leads me to believe they will be grasping just to make it in.

Given their opponents in this final stretch, and their abysmal 24th in the league in total goals against, it would take a near 180 degree turnaround to ensure they make it in this year.

St. Louis and LA took the two best candidates off the market. Although I will grant, Quenneville getting replaced is probably more likely than Kane getting dealt. Bowman I think had a lot to do with Babcock replacing Dave Lewis in Detroit. And with Q replacing Savard. Wonder who he'd pick. Wonder also if he isn't waiting for that guy to come free.
- John Jaeckel

Would love to see Haviland get a chance, but I'm not sure you remove a coach who is 3 points out of first place and replace him with someone from the current bench. After a playoff miss/failure maybe.

Not sure who that would be. What current coaches out there would you consider?

Would love to see Haviland get a chance, but I'm not sure you remove a coach who is 3 points out of first place and replace him with someone from the current bench. After a playoff miss/failure maybe.

Not sure who that would be. What current coaches out there would you consider?
- TheTrob

I don't think you can do that either. But I do think questions can be asked by Stan and Co. about how Q gets them out of the funk and back into winning form again. I think how they end the year is how Q and his crew go.

I might be aiming a few points high, as given their road record to date, home ice would be critical for them this year. So a 100+ season would be needed to get a home ice matchup in round one.

That being said, even 30-35 points in the last 32 games, 20 of which are on the road, and that they have played only .500 since 12/15 with most of those games at home, leads me to believe they will be grasping just to make it in.

Given their opponents in this final stretch, and their abysmal 24th in the league in total goals against, it would take a near 180 degree turnaround to ensure they make it in this year.
- Return of the Roar

If they can't get 30-35 points in 32 games, then they don't deserve to make the playoffs.