You don't think The Hawks take into equation what players have done in the past for organizations and how that will play out in a fan's mind? I disagree with you there. Now if he was useless, maybe that carries some weight. Not with Kane. I think the days of Chelios, Roenick, Belfour are over. Kane and Toews are going to be here a long time.
- ilinkhawk

I do, I just don't agree that they should. The fans shouldn't determine who the best team is based on past performance, marketing and allegiances. When they do, you end up with a weaker team.

The GM should have the stones to make unpopular but smart moves that better the team. So the age and skill thing enters into that, totally valid. Marketing should not.

Does it with the Hawks? I think we're agreeing it does.

Fluke goals and legit goals. They all count.
- ilinkhawk

Amen to that. This one just happened to be the biggest one in 50 years of past Hawkness.

Does Kane get to take that shot if Dustin Byfuglien doesn't score 11 goals in the playoffs? If Toews doesn't deliver a Smythe winning playoffs? If Niemi doesn't stand on his head? If Brouwer, Ladd and Byfuglien don't wear down some defensemen? if Sopel doesn't block a lot of shots, etc.,

????
- John Jaeckel

All mentioned had great playoffs including Kane. It's a team sport...

Nah, It matters to me when I have to pay more to walk into the stadium. The story continues.
- dstarz20

Dude give it up. It's a capped league. Cap hit matters, not actual salary. Seabrook at $5.8 cap, Buf at $5.2 cap. What you pay to come into the stadium has NOTHING to do with what any individual player is making. Some years the player makes more than their cap hit, some years it's less. Your ticket price does not go up when they are over any more than it comes down when they are under.

Your argument of Buf vs. Seabs is ridiculous. While Buff is a talent, it is not of the defensive variety. He helps this team NONE right now as a defensemen. He is one of the toughest kinds of liabilty as a player for teams to overcome and that is a floater as a defensemen. A floater as a forward can be compensated for much easier. Don't kid yourself into thinking that Buf being named an All-star makes him a better D-man than Seabs or minimum 25 other guys who were not named to the team. The All star game is an exhibition and a show and Buff fits that mold.

The shot may have been fortunate. What he did to get himself in a position to get a legit shot off is why he is here. He creates scoring chances... which result into goals for him and others. Fluke goals and legit goals. They all count.
- ilinkhawk

Agreed, that is his strength. If this roster is not improved, game-winning playoff goals will be a moot point by May.

Not at all - but it should never be brought up when talking about Kane/his value etc.
- CaptainBlackhawk

I disagree...Clutch scorer, I'll take 2 please!

I'd trade Vanek for Kane, but then Chicago would have more cap problems

And if the NHL didn't exist and everyone played soccer?
- dstarz20

Then we'd all be moaning about how much of a lame January transfer window it's been this year.

The same person tells me off the ice Kane is: immature, kookey, enjoys his booze too much & is "nuts".
- CaptainBlackhawk

I think that sounds a lot like Bobby Hull, actually a lot like Hull and Mikita....And makes little difference as to how much they are off ice pals. It doesn't surprise me at all.

Hull and Mikita didn't pal around together and they worked well on the ice and on the same team for years.

Nah, It matters to me when I have to pay more to walk into the stadium. The story continues.
- dstarz20

Seriously?

There is SALARY CAP!!! THEY HAVE COST CERTAINTY. Seabrook making $7mil or $5 mil or $2mill is not effecting the cost of the tickets.

I do, I just don't agree that they should. The fans shouldn't determine who the best team is based on past performance, marketing and allegiances. When they do, you end up with a weaker team.

The GM should have the stones to make unpopular but smart moves that better the team. So the age and skill thing enters into that, totally valid. Marketing should not.

Does it with the Hawks? I think we're agreeing it does.
- John Jaeckel

I can see where you would think it shouldn't matter in some cases. But we are talking about a really young player here with insane talent.

And as a fan, it does matter to me. I for sure have way more allegiance to a player who has been here and done amazing things for my team like Kane has as opposed to a guy who has worn a Red Wing uniform his whole career. I am old school in a sense that I like to keep my great players that I drafted. Especially a player who has been responsible for probably 3 of the greatest most exciting moments as a Blackhawk fan (Vancouver playoff hat trick, game tying goal vs Nashville, Stanley Cup winner). One of the sad things in days of free agency where you can lose your favorite players to other teams. So it does add weight for me atleast. He is a true drafted Blackhawk to me. I like the idea of making every effort to keep Toews, Kane, Keith, Seabrook lifers.

Fatty,

Check your facts, read all the posts (and the blog). I'm talking cap hit— which is ALL THAT MATTERS. So, you, my friend, are being not stupid, but also not terribly smart in terms of crafting your argument.

If you won't show me the courtesy of responding to what I actually said, then calling me stupid and putting words in my mouth, then I will not show you as much courtesy and patience as I am right now.

Got it?
- John Jaeckel

My bad for misconstruing some of the information, it seems a little bias from my perspective especially with previous opinions about the player posted here.

I wasn't calling you stupid but I'm getting sick of the notion of stat production vs salary, who that applies to and who it doesn't, which players are exempt from that analysis because they try hard or have intangibles. I apologize for not making that clear.

Getting rid of one of the best young hockey players in the league in efforts to find a quick fix is not a good business or hockey decision IMO. Either way its rolling the dice and I would rather deal with the devil I know then totally and completely change the complexion of this hockey team.

Seriously?

There is SALARY CAP!!! THEY HAVE COST CERTAINTY. Seabrook making $7mil or $5 mil or $2mill is not effecting the cost of the tickets.
- furso27

Sure it's not...

Agreed, that is his strength. If this roster is not improved, game-winning playoff goals will be a moot point by May.
- John Jaeckel

Exactly. Which has been the case all year. Winning or not. Role player improvement is what's needed. Bowman took a swing and missed. We have cap space and some attractive prospects.

My bad for misconstruing some of the information, it seems a little bias from my perspective especially with previous opinions about the player posted here.

I wasn't calling you stupid but I'm getting sick of the notion of stat production vs salary, who that applies to and who it doesn't, which players are exempt from that analysis because they try hard or have intangibles. I apologize for not making that clear.

Getting rid of one of the best young hockey players in the league in efforts to find a quick fix is not a good business or hockey decision IMO. Either way its rolling the dice and I would rather deal with the devil I know then totally and completely change the complexion of this hockey team.
- fattybeef

Why it isn't going to happen...

My bad for misconstruing some of the information, it seems a little bias from my perspective especially with previous opinions about the player posted here.

I wasn't calling you stupid but I'm getting sick of the notion of stat production vs salary, who that applies to and who it doesn't, which players are exempt from that analysis because they try hard or have intangibles. I apologize for not making that clear.

Getting rid of one of the best young hockey players in the league in efforts to find a quick fix is not a good business or hockey decision IMO. Either way its rolling the dice and I would rather deal with the devil I know then totally and completely change the complexion of this hockey team.
- fattybeef

There would be a huge risk in dealing him. Huge return. Hard to say. Some will argue today, this hockey team needs its complexion changed.

I'll tell you right now, without some significant additions, it's not getting past round 2. And maybe not that far.

Kane and Crawford for Price+

Exactly. Which has been the case all year. Winning or not. Role player improvement is what's needed. Bowman took a swing and missed. We have cap space and some attractive prospects.
- ilinkhawk

Right . . . and possibly wrong. My info is the Washington deal fell through because McPhee changed his mind on some of the Hawks' attractive prospects and demanded an NHL player instead.

If you were scouting the Hawks last night, how much would you trade for Pirri or Smith? Honestly. Bearing in mind you can also trade for top prospects form 29 other teams.

Rick, you are the man.

Listen, I don't know what Kane's issue is right now. Someone told me this morning he's gotten a little pouty over the shuttling between wing and center. Dunno.

But last night, Shaw (who is a frickin' gem of a find), Bolland (terrific last night) and Kruger were all better players than Kane. As was Hossa, but I expect that.

Getting back to Shaw, he is just a smart player up and down the ice who wins. He looks like a guy who's been in the league for 5-10 years. As does Kruger a lot of the time. Kruger just needs a summer of serious strength work.

Whoever the scout was who pushed Shaw, that guy deserves a raise.
- John Jaeckel

The 88 at center experiment was ill-advised and conceived with neolithic incompetence. If IT AIN'T BROKE...YADA, YADA, YADA. And the Hawk braintrust had to go a screw up the kid's head. Sounds very plausible to me.

Kane and Crawford for Price+


- Subban_76

Call a fumigator..you've got too much More-ee-all smoked meat on the brain

Call a fumigator..you've got too much More-ee-all smoked meat on the brain
- philco28

Wishful thinking.

I think that sounds a lot like Bobby Hull, actually a lot like Hull and Mikita....And makes little difference as to how much they are off ice pals. It doesn't surprise me at all.

Hull and Mikita didn't pal around together and they worked well on the ice and on the same team for years.
- Al

This s a good point.

I will also add, Patrick Kane and Bobby Hull are different people and different players.

Bobby Hull could roll out of bed still drunk and deadlift 400 pounds. As could Mickey Mantle. Those guys are the genetic exceptions, not the rule.

I can see where you would think it shouldn't matter in some cases. But we are talking about a really young player here with insane talent.

And as a fan, it does matter to me. I for sure have way more allegiance to a player who has been here and done amazing things for my team like Kane has as opposed to a guy who has worn a Red Wing uniform his whole career. I am old school in a sense that I like to keep my great players that I drafted. Especially a player who has been responsible for probably 3 of the greatest most exciting moments as a Blackhawk fan (Vancouver playoff hat trick, game tying goal vs Nashville, Stanley Cup winner). One of the sad things in days of free agency where you can lose your favorite players to other teams. So it does add weight for me atleast. He is a true drafted Blackhawk to me. I like the idea of making every effort to keep Toews, Kane, Keith, Seabrook lifers.
- ilinkhawk

You know, you make a valid point as a fan with this. To some people, keeping all of the players a team drafted and won with is a great thing for the hockey fan that loves his team.

But I'll ask you if you think today's players value or exercise the same degree of allegiance to the team or its fans. I'd say definitely not. When Pat Kane gets to UFA, I submit to you that it will become all about the money and the memories and loyal fans and his Hawk jersey won't factor very seriously in his signing decision.

Right . . . and possibly wrong. My info is the Washington deal fell through because McPhee changed his mind on some of the Hawks' attractive prospects and demanded an NHL player instead.

If you were scouting the Hawks last night, how much would you trade for Pirri or Smith? Honestly. Bearing in mind you can also trade for top prospects form 29 other teams.
- John Jaeckel

Well then we really screwed up dealing Buff. If we don't have any valuable pieces drafted in the last 3 years-- hmmm. You certainly need a roster guy or two to go along with the prospects. I think the guy you deal is the one with value right now, Stalberg. I like him. He has played great and is fast as heck. But you got to give to get. And I think there are quite a few teams out there right now who would like him in a deal don't you? We have obvious needs in areas that are going to make the playoffs tough - AGAIN. What he brings to the table I believe we have enough of.

Wishful thinking.
- Subban_76