Let's just look at Patrick Kane from a pure hockey point of view. As a player of very small physical stature, he can and will never be a dominant player despite his incredible skill level, elite passing ability and the offensive excitement he can generate. The best teams have found a way to shut him down and push his play to the perimeter. (As you know, I don't like small perimeter players much because they don't win very often in the big boy nasty NHL).

Therefore, he becomes icing on the cake or the cherry on top of dessert that excels on a great team with a mix of high skill and big physical players. Expecting him to be an awesome 200 foot player who will continually go to the net and be physical is way too much to ask him for.

If I know Scotty Bowman's thinking, he would trade Kane in a heartbeat for the right player to help his team win. That's all he cares about, winning, not how many Budweisers a player can sell on game night. Contracts aside, any of Shea Weber, Tyler Meyers, Getzlaf, Perry, Evander Kane and probably a signed Parise would work for Scotty.

And you know what? I doubt Brian Burke would swap Phil Kessel even up for Pat Kane.
- RickJ

Great post. It would be interesting to know what the opinion of Kane is around the NHL outside of Chicago. Not trying to sell him short, but perhaps as Hawks fans, we have grown to over value him by giving him untradeable status. Again, to me, the Kane - Towes dynamic might make trading him a little sticky, but if Bowman thought it would put the team over the top, he do it. Of course, that's assuming "other's" in the organization would allow it.

JJ: YOU DID THIS BLOG JUST GET RESPONSE, OK, YOU GOT WHAT YOU WERE LOOKING FOR, NOW ADMIT THAT IT'S NOT EVER GOING TO HAPPEN. NO WAY IN THIS WORLD ARE THE HAWKS GOING TO TRADE KANER AND I TOTALLY AGREE.
- Maggie

I don't get paid by responses on the thread, Lee.

I don't think they'll ever trade him.

I think they could get a lot for him. But they are committed to him in a lot of ways and now they have to hope he can become a more fully dimensional player over time.

Take this for whatever it is worth..

I have a good friend that knows some of these players very very well and hangs out with them on a pretty consistent basis.

Toews & Kane are far from buddy/buddy and rarely hang out off the ice.
- CaptainBlackhawk

Exactly

Exactly
- John Jaeckel

The same person tells me off the ice Kane is: immature, kookey, enjoys his booze too much & is "nuts".

I could care less if they hate eachother, I'll never get the bad lockroom guy...if the guy scores cup winning goals, I don't care who he likes or who likes him.

Getting back to Shaw, he is just a smart player up and down the ice who wins. He looks like a guy who's been in the league for 5-10 years. As does Kruger a lot of the time. Kruger just needs a summer of serious strength work.

Whoever the scout was who pushed Shaw, that guy deserves a raise.
- John Jaeckel

JJ - I was in Owen Sound on the weekend (where Shaw played his OHL career) and my friend who was familiar with the team mentioned how he was one of Ontario's and maybe Canada's best ball hockey player.

http://ontarioballhockey....&task=view&id=263&Itemid= hmmm... another random Shaw fact.

Ragardless, you should hear how happy and proud they are of this guy up there... I think it speaks volumes of his character.

I am not sure how much the friendship is really that tight, and how much is a product of marketing. Away from hockey, they have different friends and they are different kids. And they have different roles and responsibilities with the team. To assume because they are 'friends" Kane has not gotten on the red side of Toews' a-- as captain is naive and probably incorrect. There's definitely some affection and camaraderie there, but I don't believe the Butch and Sundance thing at all. Marketing b.s.
- John Jaeckel

JJ. I thought they were legitimately close, but you may very well be right about the marketing aspect of it.

A couple of holes here.

1. The yo-yo of opinion continues. When the Hawks win a couple in a row, they're better than last year and start to look like real contenders that are a defenseman and depth forward away. The second they lose a few, they're not any better than last year's edition. Pick one and stick with it.

2. So much for presenting both sides of the "trade Kane" argument. 85% of that blog was "why the Hawks should trade Kane". If that's your opinion that's fine, but don't mask it as being objective.

For what it's worth, I would definitely agree that the notion trading Kane should not be dismissed. BUT, only if they get a premier player in return. Rick Nash, Zach Parise+ or Corey Perry/Bobby Ryan would all be adequate returns. What I WOULD NOT condone is trading Kane for a 2nd line center, 2nd pairing dman and draft picks and/or prospects. As the old adage goes, the team that gets the best player in a multi-player deal usually wins, and in any package deal where the Hawks would lose Kane, they would lose the deal in my opinion and would be no closer to a Cup.

As for this year's team, I think they are light years better. Their improved depth at forward is enough to put them ahead of the 2011 edition. That said, yes they ideally need to add a 2nd line center and a 2nd pairing dman. But I disagree that they need more depth forwards. MAYBE a penalty-killing 4th line center (like Jeff Halpern for example), but that's it.

Otherwise I think Andrew Shaw, Ben Smith and Jimmy Hayes are good enough to fill those bottom six physical forward roles they lacked last season and earlier this season. I also still believe in Corey Craword. He made the saves that gave the Hawks a chance to beat Nashville last night (especially in the 3rd), in spite of not having 19 and 10 in the lineup.

Here's a scenario of an example of the ideal additions to the lineup:

Add Derek Roy, Jeff Halpern and Tim Gleason, all of which can be added for relatively low cost. All of a sudden a healthy Hawks lineup would be one of the last teams you'd want to face in the playoffs.

Stalberg-Toews-Kane
Sharp-Roy-Hossa
Shaw-Bolland-Frolik
Hayes-Halpern-Mayers
Smith

Keith-Seabrook
Hjalmarsson-Gleason
Leddy-Montador
O'Donnell

That looks pretty deep and good in all areas to me.

To be clear btw JJ, in no way was this meant offensively, but I am allowed to disagree with you, as are you with me. That's all it should be taken as.
- andru2797

It's fine. I have to make the 85% argument because some people refuse to see the forest for the trees. You read Rick's posts above about Kane, about the kind of player he really is and can become, about Scotty Bowman. They are bang on. And all I've been saying here for three years. Unfortunately, a lot of fans refuse to see it, including maybe you. You have a right to disagree, Also doesn't mean you're correct.

I could care less if they hate eachother, I'll never get the bad lockroom guy...if the guy scores cup winning goals, I don't care who he likes or who likes him.
- dstarz20

I love when people use the "hey! he scored the Cup winning goal!" thing...

It was a ridiculously lucky bounce - he flipped the puck at a horrible angle and the goalie didn't move. You know why no one thought it was in? Because it took such a ridiculously lucky bounce from the most unreal of spots on the ice.

Stalberg-Toews-Kane
Sharp-Roy-Hossa
Shaw-Bolland-Frolik
Hayes-Halpern-Mayers
Smith

Keith-Seabrook
Hjalmarsson-Gleason
Leddy-Montador
O'Donnell

That looks pretty deep and good in all areas to me.


- andru2797

Still. Too. Soft.

And will likely still be coached to play too softly.

I don't get paid by responses on the thread, Lee.

I don't think they'll ever trade him.

I think they could get a lot for him. But they are committed to him in a lot of ways and now they have to hope he can become a more fully dimensional player over time.
- John Jaeckel

Totally agree, I do wish when he's interviewed by Sarah he stops the BS about the fans, that really has gotten old

I love when people use the "hey! he scored the Cup winning goal!" thing...

It was a ridiculously lucky bounce - he flipped the puck at a horrible angle and the goalie didn't move. You know why no one thought it was in? Because it took such a ridiculously lucky bounce from the most unreal of spots on the ice.
- CaptainBlackhawk

And I'll take it each year...Puck goes in, does it matter how?

And I'll take it each year...Puck goes in, does it matter how?
- dstarz20

Starz, welcome to the blog. But you're arguing some tough points here. Are you saying no one but Kane could have scored in OT of that game against the great Michael Leighton?

And I'll take it each year...Puck goes in, does it matter how?
- dstarz20

Not at all - but it should never be brought up when talking about Kane/his value etc.

Starz, welcome to the blog. But you're arguing some tough points here. Are you saying no one but Kane could have scored in OT of that game against the great Michael Leighton?
- John Jaeckel

You could argue that Kane had a fantastic Cup run that year - completely different argument. Clutch player, played well under pressure etc. But that shot? No way.

His skills and age are valid points. Marketing and what he has done in the past are meaningless. He's done some things in the past that could get a player traded.

I don't think he's getting traded either. I'm not sure, in the end, that's the right thing. Not sure it wouldn't be either.
- John Jaeckel

You don't think The Hawks take into equation what players have done in the past for organizations and how that will play out in a fan's mind? I disagree with you there. Now if he was useless, maybe that carries some weight. Not with Kane. I think the days of Chelios, Roenick, Belfour are over. Kane and Toews are going to be here a long time.

It's fine. I have to make the 85% argument because some people refuse to see the forest for the trees. You read Rick's posts above about Kane, about the kind of player he really is and can become, about Scotty Bowman. They are bang on. And all I've been saying here for three years. Unfortunately, a lot of fans refuse to see it, including maybe you. You have a right to disagree, Also doesn't mean you're correct.
- John Jaeckel

Like I said, I wouldn't be opposed to trading him...just not for "depth". trades like that rarely work out for the team losing the star player.

I think he has all the tools to be one of the top players in the league.

Starz, welcome to the blog. But you're arguing some tough points here. Are you saying no one but Kane could have scored in OT of that game against the great Michael Leighton?
- John Jaeckel

Thanks JJ. I'm saying no one did. For close to 50 years. You talk about clutch goals, people that perform in the playoffs, etc. That's Kane, at age 21. Pretty special.

JJ,

Great blog and great analysis. It really comes down to "how can I make this team better" from a GM perspective...

I am not comparing Richards or Carter to Kane, however, from a team standpoint it would be very similar... Richards and Carter were both staples of the Flyers org... A lot of fans were calling for heads when Richards was traded, but look at the team... it is stronger and deeper then Flyers teams in the past... sometimes you have to take a step back to take 2 forward.

And I'll take it each year...Puck goes in, does it matter how?
- dstarz20

Does Kane get to take that shot if Dustin Byfuglien doesn't score 11 goals in the playoffs? If Toews doesn't deliver a Smythe winning playoffs? If Niemi doesn't stand on his head? If Brouwer, Ladd and Byfuglien don't wear down some defensemen? if Sopel doesn't block a lot of shots, etc.,

????

You could argue that Kane had a fantastic Cup run that year - completely different argument. Clutch player, played well under pressure etc. But that shot? No way.
- CaptainBlackhawk

It went in the net, would you rather it been game 7 with a break away triple gordon Bombay deak goal? It's still a goal, and it was 50 years in the making.

JJ,

Great blog and great analysis. It really comes down to "how can I make this team better" from a GM perspective...

I am not comparing Richards or Carter to Kane, however, from a team standpoint it would be very similar... Richards and Carter were both staples of the Flyers org... A lot of fans were calling for heads when Richards was traded, but look at the team... it is stronger and deeper then Flyers teams in the past... sometimes you have to take a step back to take 2 forward.
- lindros8888

Great comparison. In many ways, And I think you know what I'm talking about.

Does Kane get to take that shot if Dustin Byfuglien doesn't score 11 goals in the playoffs? If Toews doesn't deliver a Smythe winning playoffs? If Niemi doesn't stand on his head? If Brouwer, Ladd and Byfuglien don't wear down some defensemen? if Sopel doesn't block a lot of shots, etc.,

????
- John Jaeckel

And if the NHL didn't exist and everyone played soccer? Maybe not. Fact is, he scored the Cup goal, in the last 50 years, what Hawk did?

If he is available I would be sure Terry Pegula would be screaming at DR to get an offer. I went to his first game in Buffalo ( an OT win for the sabres) .

Kane scored the only goal for the Hawks if im not mistaken and got a standing ovation. Fans chanted his name...screamed when they showed his face on the jumbotron.

He would be immortalized in Buffalo.

Pomminville, Buffalos 1st this season and a prospect not named Kassian or McNabb for 88
- HotSauceBlueChs

WTF !! Thats not even close to what he is worth !! Buffalo fans turned into Toronto fans real quick with those trade offers..... My god.
If you even think about wanting Kane from us you start with offering up Miller, from there we could talk. Nobody else is bear his star or skill level on that team.

I love when people use the "hey! he scored the Cup winning goal!" thing...

It was a ridiculously lucky bounce - he flipped the puck at a horrible angle and the goalie didn't move. You know why no one thought it was in? Because it took such a ridiculously lucky bounce from the most unreal of spots on the ice.
- CaptainBlackhawk

The shot may have been fortunate. What he did to get himself in a position to get a legit shot off is why he is here. He creates scoring chances... which result into goals for him and others. Fluke goals and legit goals. They all count.