Disagree you can blame Darcy for bad moves and bad contracts he gave out, does some fall on Miller? sure it does but not all of it.
- SABRES 89

People just don't understand how goaltending works in today's league. We (in Buffalo) expect the goalie to bail a team out every game, and teams don't win that way.

But guess what, the team (just like the fans) tried to build from the goalie out and throw a bunch of money at him. Now they treat him like he has to be our best player, however, this league is designed to put numbers up. This isn't the Hasek era as much as we want it to be. Goalies are at a disadvantage and any team who wants to win a cup shouldn't even talk about the position. An average guy in net is all that's needed to win.

Ward (replaced Gerber in the playoffs)
Giguere (now a backup in Colorado)
Osgood (was never a top notch goalie)
Fleury (nothing special to say about him, had a pretty bad playoff performance that year)
Niemi (best team I've seen in a long time in front of him)
Thomas (good playoff performance, still a guy who needs a lot of defensive support for his aggressive style of play)

All of these guys won a cup because they had huge depth in front of them. They didn't need to be elite. The "is Miller elite?" argument is pointless, because it shouldn't matter if he's average or the best. Again, if people hate his contract, then let's change our philosophy on how we value goaltenders in Buffalo.

The real problem with the Miller haters vs supporters is that, we're arguing about the wrong position. He deserves 'some' blame, BUT only because we put him in the spot he's in. We adored him, we wanted another Hasek, and we wanted another team that has an average group of guys who relies on their goalie to bail them out in a high scoring league. Just imagine how bad Philly would have rolled us over if they even had something average in net last year. They played roulette with three guys in net and still beat us.

It's just tiring to keep talking about the goalie, when it's the least of our worries. Our old fashioned dump and chase style of play needs to change, as well as our "just throw pucks at the net" offense. Most of these 'hope' shots get blocked and lead to odd man rushes. Lindy can't even get them to cycle in the corner anymore, yet we're worried about how the goalie is letting shots by on breakaways and 2-1 rushes... okay...

Miller is not the whole problem but he is a huge part of it. He flat out sucks this year and averages more then 3 gaa per game for a reason and that reason is not soly the defense which I agree also sucks. Miller is not stopping the shots he used to stop and is not making any of the big saves he used to make period. I do not think his heart is in it anymore and a change of scenery as much as I would hate to see it is the right thing to do. Regardless that he is playing bad this year his trade value is still realy high due to past performances and him being relativly young. Plus the fact he is under contract for 2 more years is even more apealing to other clubs. Stafford,roy,leino,keleta,gaustad,hecht,miller,gragnani,weber all need to go period.
- Brockv

Seriously, why is it that people want to ship all these players out? If it's one guy that's not performing, that's one thing, but all of them? That's simply the coaching staff failing.

People just don't understand how goaltending works in today's league. We (in Buffalo) expect the goalie to bail a team out every game, and teams don't win that way.

But guess what, the team (just like the fans) tried to build from the goalie out and throw a bunch of money at him. Now they treat him like he has to be our best player, however, this league is designed to put numbers up. This isn't the Hasek era as much as we want it to be. Goalies are at a disadvantage and any team who wants to win a cup shouldn't even talk about the position. An average guy in net is all that's needed to win.

Ward (replaced Gerber in the playoffs)
Giguere (now a backup in Colorado)
Osgood (was never a top notch goalie)
Fleury (nothing special to say about him, had a pretty bad playoff performance that year)
Niemi (best team I've seen in a long time in front of him)
Thomas (good playoff performance, still a guy who needs a lot of defensive support for his aggressive style of play)

All of these guys won a cup because they had huge depth in front of them. They didn't need to be elite. The "is Miller elite?" argument is pointless, because it shouldn't matter if he's average or the best. Again, if people hate his contract, then let's change our philosophy on how we value goaltenders in Buffalo.

The real problem with the Miller haters vs supporters is that, we're arguing about the wrong position. He deserves 'some' blame, BUT only because we put him in the spot he's in. We adored him, we wanted another Hasek, and we wanted another team that has an average group of guys who relies on their goalie to bail them out in a high scoring league. Just imagine how bad Philly would have rolled us over if they even had something average in net last year. They played roulette with three guys in net and still beat us.

It's just tiring to keep talking about the goalie, when it's the least of our worries. Our old fashioned dump and chase style of play needs to change, as well as our "just throw pucks at the net" offense. Most of these 'hope' shots get blocked and lead to odd man rushes. Lindy can't even get them to cycle in the corner anymore, yet we're worried about how the goalie is letting shots by on breakaways and 2-1 rushes... okay...
- dhasek00

I would like to see Miller not have to bail out the team.. I'd like to see us win games by getting pucks in the opponents net. I'd like to see the special teams actually shoot the puck on goal during the power play and not just play keep-a-way with the puck.

People just don't understand how goaltending works in today's league. We (in Buffalo) expect the goalie to bail a team out every game, and teams don't win that way.

But guess what, the team (just like the fans) tried to build from the goalie out and throw a bunch of money at him. Now they treat him like he has to be our best player, however, this league is designed to put numbers up. This isn't the Hasek era as much as we want it to be. Goalies are at a disadvantage and any team who wants to win a cup shouldn't even talk about the position. An average guy in net is all that's needed to win.

Ward (replaced Gerber in the playoffs)
Giguere (now a backup in Colorado)
Osgood (was never a top notch goalie)
Fleury (nothing special to say about him, had a pretty bad playoff performance that year)
Niemi (best team I've seen in a long time in front of him)
Thomas (good playoff performance, still a guy who needs a lot of defensive support for his aggressive style of play)

All of these guys won a cup because they had huge depth in front of them. They didn't need to be elite. The "is Miller elite?" argument is pointless, because it shouldn't matter if he's average or the best. Again, if people hate his contract, then let's change our philosophy on how we value goaltenders in Buffalo.

The real problem with the Miller haters vs supporters is that, we're arguing about the wrong position. He deserves 'some' blame, BUT only because we put him in the spot he's in. We adored him, we wanted another Hasek, and we wanted another team that has an average group of guys who relies on their goalie to bail them out in a high scoring league. Just imagine how bad Philly would have rolled us over if they even had something average in net last year. They played roulette with three guys in net and still beat us.

It's just tiring to keep talking about the goalie, when it's the least of our worries. Our old fashioned dump and chase style of play needs to change, as well as our "just throw pucks at the net" offense. Most of these 'hope' shots get blocked and lead to odd man rushes. Lindy can't even get them to cycle in the corner anymore, yet we're worried about how the goalie is letting shots by on breakaways and 2-1 rushes... okay...
- dhasek00

Miller realy does suck this year man. He does not make the saves he used to make and it is not just the buffalo defense which is causing it. The league is not scoring more goals this year then the last 3-5 years. The league is still the same as it was the last several years. If anything im seeing less 40-50-60 goal scorers then i did in years past.

Seriously, why is it that people want to ship all these players out? If it's one guy that's not performing, that's one thing, but all of them? That's simply the coaching staff failing.
- dhasek00

Those players have been under performing for years now. You cant tell me other wise. Those players were way better when they where 2nd and 3rd line players, when we had a solid first line with brier and dury. Since those players left and these players moved up in the depth chart there production has not been nearly as good. Pominville and vanek minus pominviles year last year have been the only consistant players.

People just don't understand how goaltending works in today's league. We (in Buffalo) expect the goalie to bail a team out every game, and teams don't win that way.

But guess what, the team (just like the fans) tried to build from the goalie out and throw a bunch of money at him. Now they treat him like he has to be our best player, however, this league is designed to put numbers up. This isn't the Hasek era as much as we want it to be. Goalies are at a disadvantage and any team who wants to win a cup shouldn't even talk about the position. An average guy in net is all that's needed to win.

Ward (replaced Gerber in the playoffs)
Giguere (now a backup in Colorado)
Osgood (was never a top notch goalie)
Fleury (nothing special to say about him, had a pretty bad playoff performance that year)
Niemi (best team I've seen in a long time in front of him)
Thomas (good playoff performance, still a guy who needs a lot of defensive support for his aggressive style of play)

All of these guys won a cup because they had huge depth in front of them. They didn't need to be elite. The "is Miller elite?" argument is pointless, because it shouldn't matter if he's average or the best. Again, if people hate his contract, then let's change our philosophy on how we value goaltenders in Buffalo.

The real problem with the Miller haters vs supporters is that, we're arguing about the wrong position. He deserves 'some' blame, BUT only because we put him in the spot he's in. We adored him, we wanted another Hasek, and we wanted another team that has an average group of guys who relies on their goalie to bail them out in a high scoring league. Just imagine how bad Philly would have rolled us over if they even had something average in net last year. They played roulette with three guys in net and still beat us.

It's just tiring to keep talking about the goalie, when it's the least of our worries. Our old fashioned dump and chase style of play needs to change, as well as our "just throw pucks at the net" offense. Most of these 'hope' shots get blocked and lead to odd man rushes. Lindy can't even get them to cycle in the corner anymore, yet we're worried about how the goalie is letting shots by on breakaways and 2-1 rushes... okay...
- dhasek00

We did not put him in the spot he's in. He did along with the media a long time ago. I adore no pro athlete. I don't need him to be Hasek. I need him to shut his mouth and play to the level he's paid for. Anything under a 2.50 gaa and over a .915 sv% would do. If he did that and we still lost, I could never say he's the problem.

Fluery was a major reason Pitts won the cup. In the 4 games they won in the finals he allowed 6 goals.

Neimi has been better in SJ than he was in Chicago also.

Ward also got a 6.5 cap hit because of that and has been Miller like avg since.

Giggy won a Conn Smyth for a losing team in the finals as well.

Osgood has 401 wins and three rings ringing in his ear so he can't hear you.

Oh and when you put we did this, we do that, and we did that, you make yourself the voice of the fans.