Probably, unless they have a home team discount worked out in quiet
- Jsaquella

Do you think he's a $5 million a year guy?

If your looking at them as individuals, Seabrooke is a much, much better player than Orpik.
- MJL

agrEEd.

I think Orpik is a gritty d-man. He has a nice, little nasty treak to him.

Do you think he's a $5 million a year guy?
- puckhead17

In today's NHL? Yes. If Wisniewski is a $5mm guy, Matt carle definitely is

Do you think he's a $5 million a year guy?
- puckhead17

On the open market he is.

agrEEd.

I think Orpik is a gritty d-man. He has a nice, little nasty treak to him.
- ggunky

I'll take Orpik on my team.

If your looking at them as individuals, Seabrooke is a much, much better player than Orpik.
- MJL

i agree

but if seabrook is a number two, he's as good as it gets to me. there have to be at least 20-25 number one caliber d-men IMO (you could argue that there are necessarily 30)

i guess you could make the argument that the number attached has nothing to do with the ranking in the league as it stands, but is something separate. but i guess i don't look at it that way

Do you think he's a $5 million a year guy?
- puckhead17

The way he is playing this year, yes.

Is this who Carle is or is he having that, its my final year of the contract, year?

I'll take Orpik on my team.
- MJL

no doubt.

The way he is playing this year, yes.

Is this who Carle is or is he having that, its my final year of the contract, year?
- ggunky

He had a very good year last year, as well.

In today's NHL? Yes. If Wisniewski is a $5mm guy, Matt carle definitely is
- Jsaquella

well yes Hainsey at $4.5 million yeah, but does Homer give him that?

i agree

but if seabrook is a number two, he's as good as it gets to me. there have to be at least 20-25 number one caliber d-men IMO (you could argue that there are necessarily 30)

i guess you could make the argument that the number attached has nothing to do with the ranking in the league as it stands, but is something separate. but i guess i don't look at it that way
- FlyerMike18

It depends on how you look at it. I see it as a certain type of player. For instance, before the Flyers got Timonen, they didn't have a #1 defenseman.

The way he is playing this year, yes.

Is this who Carle is or is he having that, its my final year of the contract, year?
- ggunky

Carle as outstanding last year. Led the NHL in a couple of categories.

well yes Hainsey at $4.5 million yeah, but does Homer give him that?
- puckhead17

Not if he can get Suter on a long term deal with an annual hit between $5mm and $6mm

Agreed on both counts. Although I think a package headed by Luke Schenn could be a very fair return for JvR.

I'd be fine if they ended up making a move for Gill or Gleason, or a good deal that netted them Schenn. I'd be fine if they stood pat, if they couldn't manage a good deal.

I'd love to win this year, but I also wouldn't mortgage the future for a slightly better shot this year.
- Jsaquella

By trading JVR for player or players that make your team better isn't giving up on him either. I seriously doubt the organization has given up on him but they cannot watch that mess out there in the defensive zone and act like it doesn't exist either. It would break my heart to see JVR traded but if he makes the team better like you say and I concurr, then by all means GID homer!

He had a very good year last year, as well.
- Jsaquella

imo,

He seems to be playing better, this year, with out Pronger then he did last year.

It depends on how you look at it. I see it as a certain type of player. For instance, before the Flyers got Timonen, they didn't have a #1 defenseman.
- MJL

poop, they didn't really have a #2 or #3 guy either...I mean Coburn had potential, but...

imo,

He seems to be playing better, this year, with out Pronger then he did last year.
- ggunky

I think he's playing better this year, but I think he was very good last year as well.

It depends on how you look at it. I see it as a certain type of player. For instance, before the Flyers got Timonen, they didn't have a #1 defenseman.
- MJL

agreed, but they arguably didn't have a guy that was top 30 in the league at that time either

i'd say at the very least both the flyers (when pronger is healthy) and the predators have two legitimate (high end) number ones

i think we established earlier in the week though that i'm a bit higher on suter than you are

By trading JVR for player or players that make your team better isn't giving up on him either. I seriously doubt the organization has given up on him but they cannot watch that mess out there in the defensive zone and act like it doesn't exist either. It would break my heart to see JVR traded but if he makes the team better like you say and I concurr, then by all means GID homer!
- JoeRussomanno

No. Giving up on JvR is trading him for David Rundblad and a 2nd rounder.

Getting a package headed by Luke Schenn is saying we got a really good return for a guy we still think is a damned good player.

No. Giving up on JvR is trading him for David Rundblad and a 2nd rounder.

Getting a package headed by Luke Schenn is saying we got a really good return for a guy we still think is a damned good player.
- Jsaquella

i agree

but if seabrook is a number two, he's as good as it gets to me. there have to be at least 20-25 number one caliber d-men IMO (you could argue that there are necessarily 30)

i guess you could make the argument that the number attached has nothing to do with the ranking in the league as it stands, but is something separate. but i guess i don't look at it that way
- FlyerMike18

Of course it depends on the team too. The Hawks have Keith as their #1 guy. That puts Seabrook at #2. But maybe Seabrook is #1 in Tampa. There are lots of guys that fit into the #1 - 2 slot depending on what team you choose to look at. But I'm still sticking with my opinion that Orpik, while a nasty piece of business, is not a "legit" #2 on any team.

Here are the top 20 NHL defenseman in cap hits. Compare Suter to a player, and that will give you an idea.

1. Weber, Shea » D NAS 26 1 $7,500,000
2. Campbell, Brian » D FLA 32 8 $7,142,875
3. Doughty, Drew » D LAK 22 8 $7,000,000
4. Chara, Zdeno » D BOS 34 7 $6,916,667
5. Bouwmeester, Jay » D CGY 28 5 $6,680,000
6. Boyle, Dan » D SAN 35 6 $6,666,667
7. Phaneuf, Dion » D TOR 26 6 $6,500,000
8. Redden, Wade » D NYR 34 6 $6,500,000
9. Timonen, Kimmo » D PHI 36 6 $6,333,333
10. Lidstrom, Nicklas » D DET 41 1 $6,200,000
11. Seabrook, Brent » D CHI 26 5 $5,800,000
12. Markov, Andrei » D MTL 33 3 $5,750,000
13. Visnovsky, Lubomir » D ANA 35 5 $5,600,000
14. Keith, Duncan » D CHI 28 13 $5,538,462
15. Gonchar, Sergei » D OTT 37 3 $5,500,000
16. Wisniewski, James » D CLB 27 6 $5,500,000
17. Green, Mike » D WAS 26 4 $5,250,000
18. Yandle, Keith » D PHO 25 5 $5,250,000
19. Byfuglien, Dustin » D WIN 26 5 $5,200,000
20. Rozsival, Michal » D PHO 33 4 $5,000,000

Of course it depends on the team too. The Hawks have Keith as their #1 guy. That puts Seabrook at #2. But maybe Seabrook is #1 in Tampa. There are lots of guys that fit into the #1 - 2 slot depending on what team you choose to look at. But I'm still sticking with my opinion that Orpik, while a nasty piece of business, is not a "legit" #2 on any team.
- rockychocbill

I look at it as Chicago has 2 #1 defenseman.

I'll take Orpik on my team.
- MJL

Me too.

Of course it depends on the team too. The Hawks have Keith as their #1 guy. That puts Seabrook at #2. But maybe Seabrook is #1 in Tampa. There are lots of guys that fit into the #1 - 2 slot depending on what team you choose to look at. But I'm still sticking with my opinion that Orpik, while a nasty piece of business, is not a "legit" #2 on any team.
- rockychocbill

fair enough. might just be my red white and blue glasses too, as i disputed your rankings of orpik, suter, and rafalski