We talked about mistakes Holmgren has made. I don't know why they chose to trade Versteeg this past off season. But I don't see Cap space as the reason. Versteeg's Cap hit is 3.083M. They signed Jagr for 3.3M. With the way Versteeg is playing, was it a mistake to trade him? And have had him instead of Jagr?
- MJL

Possible. But they managed to add Bryzgalov, and had Read and a slew of kids that they could bring in, and maybe they thought that Versteeg wouldn't rebound, or didn't fully realize how bad he was injured.

What's the mood?

Outside of Letang their whole defense is made up of 3-4-5 d guys. The fact he skates with Letang at times doesn't "make" him a #2 guy though. It just means Pit doesn't have a #2 guy.
- rockychocbill

I beleive your theory is correct. At least in the way I look at defenseman. A #2 guy is a certain pedigree and quality of player. Just because a D man is second on the team is ice time, doesn't make him a legitimate #2 defenseman. That team may just lack talent at that position.

What's the mood?
- Yosimar89

Apoplectic

As long as both teams acknowledge and accept an injury, the league will approve the trade.

Hell, the Flyers traded Vinny Prospal while he was out with a broken wrist.
- Jsaquella

prospal and falloon for daigle. were there ever three more unlikeable dudes in one trade?

just like jsaq said earlier, homer has time on his side...also many assets others covet. iow, leverage that he can use. he can get a Gleason or beauchemin and wait it out. at some level he has to know this is not likely to be a cup yr w/ so many young plyrs , ?s in goal and no pronger. why squander assets to advance maybe another round?

Apoplectic
- Jsaquella

Thank God for Google!

He had a sports hernia which impacted his play. Is it good business? that depends on the situation. For instance say the Flyers got shea weber right now by only giving up JVR. Perhaps they both are injured but both teams want to either part ways with a player, or obtain the other one, keep in mind this is hypothetical, would they not see to it this player passes the physical? It would not be the first time a doctor cleared a player to play that shouldn't.
- JoeRussomanno

Ya, I do understand what you're saying but imo it would have to be one heck of a player and you would need to be as close to 100% as possible on the diagnosis of the injury and the rehab timetable. Risky business. Weber is a player you may roll the dice on. I don't think JVR is though.

just like jsaq said earlier, homer has time on his side...also many assets others covet. iow, leverage that he can use. he can get a Gleason or beauchemin and wait it out. at some level he has to know this is not likely to be a cup yr w/ so many young plyrs , ?s in goal and no pronger. why squander assets to advance maybe another round?
- isaiah520

If Holmgren trades JVR for Schenn, is he doing it just to advance another round?

Thank God for Google!
- MJL

I just wanna see if I used it right....Where's Bodiva?

Possible. But they managed to add Bryzgalov, and had Read and a slew of kids that they could bring in, and maybe they thought that Versteeg wouldn't rebound, or didn't fully realize how bad he was injured.
- Jsaquella

That whole scenario is why i wont give up on Bryzgalov or JVR. Not that we heard Bryz is injured, but he did get pulled for re aggravating an injury.

Anyway players have down years and those two could be having just that- a bad year. If we have to make a deal with JVR we better get something serious in return.

Outside of Letang their whole defense is made up of 3-4-5 d guys. The fact he skates with Letang at times doesn't "make" him a #2 guy though. It just means Pit doesn't have a #2 guy.
- rockychocbill

i agree that this could be the case, but i'd just disagree on the individual assessment of orpik. i think he's a very good defensive d-man that you can put out there with your number 1 guy consistently and be successful (particularly if the number one is a good offensive player like letang)

basically, i think the pens d are better than just a collection of 3-4-5 guys. i think they have a pretty good d corp

I beleive your theory is correct. At least in the way I look at defenseman. A #2 guy is a certain pedigree and quality of player. Just because a D man is second on the team is ice time, doesn't make him a legitimate #2 defenseman. That team may just lack talent at that position.
- MJL

In looking at their roster I would even go as far as to say they don't really have a legit #3 imo. Martin and Michalek are #4 guys imo.

That whole scenario is why i wont give up on Bryzgalov or JVR. Not that we heard Bryz is injured, but he did get pulled for re aggravating an injury.

Anyway players have down years and those two could be having just that- a bad year. If we have to make a deal with JVR we better get something serious in return.
- JoeRussomanno

Agreed on both counts. Although I think a package headed by Luke Schenn could be a very fair return for JvR.

I'd be fine if they ended up making a move for Gill or Gleason, or a good deal that netted them Schenn. I'd be fine if they stood pat, if they couldn't manage a good deal.

I'd love to win this year, but I also wouldn't mortgage the future for a slightly better shot this year.

Apoplectic
- Jsaquella

*looks up word*...


Interesting, are we still going on about freaking trades?

i agree that this could be the case, but i'd just disagree on the individual assessment of orpik. i think he's a very good defensive d-man that you can put out there with your number 1 guy consistently and be successful (particularly if the number one is a good offensive player like letang)
- FlyerMike18

Agreed to some extent and I almost added that in my last post, but truly you are looking for a guy that brings that level of responsibility, plus more intangibles. Think guys like Seabrook, Suter, Rafalski, etc.

i agree that this could be the case, but i'd just disagree on the individual assessment of orpik. i think he's a very good defensive d-man that you can put out there with your number 1 guy consistently and be successful (particularly if the number one is a good offensive player like letang)

basically, i think the pens d are better than just a collection of 3-4-5 guys. i think they have a pretty good d corp
- FlyerMike18

I think when put together with the quality team defense that the Pens play, they have a good group. Almost like the sum of the parts is greater then the individual parts themselves. Orpik has been dam good for them, and is the kind of defenseman every team needs.

Agreed to some extent and I almost added that in my last post, but truly you are looking for a guy that brings that level of responsibility, plus more intangibles. Think guys like Seabrook, Suter, Rafalski, etc.
- rockychocbill

God I love Seabrooke as a player.

Agreed on both counts. Although I think a package headed by Luke Schenn could be a very fair return for JvR.

I'd be fine if they ended up making a move for Gill or Gleason, or a good deal that netted them Schenn. I'd be fine if they stood pat, if they couldn't manage a good deal.

I'd love to win this year, but I also wouldn't mortgage the future for a slightly better shot this year.
- Jsaquella

Is it a certainty (or somewhat), that carle is gone?

i agree that this could be the case, but i'd just disagree on the individual assessment of orpik. i think he's a very good defensive d-man that you can put out there with your number 1 guy consistently and be successful (particularly if the number one is a good offensive player like letang)

basically, i think the pens d are better than just a collection of 3-4-5 guys. i think they have a pretty good d corp
- FlyerMike18

As a group they are among the nastiest pieces of business in the league. I'm not discounting them as a group by any means. The Flyers will have a very, very hard time with the Pens if everyone on the Pens is healthy (minus Crosby).

Is it a certainty (or somewhat), that carle is gone?
- puckhead17

I would lean towards yes.

Agreed to some extent and I almost added that in my last post, but truly you are looking for a guy that brings that level of responsibility, plus more intangibles. Think guys like Seabrook, Suter, Rafalski, etc.
- rockychocbill

i guess i'm just a bit more generous with the way i rank them. i'd consider both suter and rafalski number one guys

and seabrook a damn good number two (maybe the ideal). to me, that doesn't mean that orpik isn't a number 2 guy as well

semantics, i guess

*looks up word*...


Interesting, are we still going on about freaking trades?
- Yosimar89

ya leave me out of dis

Is it a certainty (or somewhat), that carle is gone?
- puckhead17

Probably, unless they have a home team discount worked out in quiet

i guess i'm just a bit more generous with the way i rank them. i'd consider both suter and rafalski number one guys

and seabrook a damn good number two (maybe the ideal). to me, that doesn't mean that orpik isn't a number 2 guy as well

semantics, i guess
- FlyerMike18

If your looking at them as individuals, Seabrooke is a much, much better player than Orpik.