And if it's not good enough you keep the lines open for other d-men currently on the "trade market"
- ob18

Exactly. If it's a deal that you feel makes your team better, not just now but in the future, you agree to it. If not you say no.

Yea you guys are right, its never over till its over. I just won't let go of the notion that Gm's don't wheel and deal and do favors here and there. I'm of the mind taking Versteeg off their hands last year was a favor. It's not an idea I'm determined to prove right either just a hunch.
- JoeRussomanno

GM's have teams and relationships built with certain guys. It's no mistake that the Flyers seem to make deals with certain teams repeatedly. And I'm sure that if the Flyers are looking to move a lesser player, he may give the GM's he has a relationship with first shot. But when your talking about top players and first round draft picks, favors don't happen. If I'm a team President or Owner and I think my GM is giving away those assets as favors, he's be out the door with those favors. And he can see if the GM he gave a favor to, will do him a favor and give him a job.

i have no idea if schenn will be a first pairing guy or not, but i would consider brooks orpik a first pairing d man, and he doesn't have much of an offensive game
- FlyerMike18

Sorry bro. Orpik is nowhere near a 1-2 d-man. He's a 4-5 guy in this league on any team that has any d depth to speak of.

Just saying, circumstances change. What was true on Tuesday might no longer apply on Saturday
- Jsaquella

Yes, they do, but I don't see it yet with JVR, especially playing hurt & all, if he was 25-26 & never over a 40-50 point season, yes, but it's still too early

Sorry bro. Orpik is nowhere near a 1-2 d-man. He's a 4-5 guy in this league on any team that has any d depth to speak of.
- rockychocbill

I'd put him as a second pair defenseman.

I'd put him as a second pair defenseman.
- MJL

a 3-4 guy is about right for Orpik, if he's higher you need some more defense

Sorry bro. Orpik is nowhere near a 1-2 d-man. He's a 4-5 guy in this league on any team that has any d depth to speak of.
- rockychocbill

plays with letang pretty regularly (when he's healthy of course)....

gets more than 4-5 type guy minutes on the pens, a team i'd say has some nice d depth

Yes, they do, but I don't see it yet with JVR, especially playing hurt & all, if he was 25-26 & never over a 40-50 point season, yes, but it's still too early
- puckhead17

It IS early.

I don't think the Flyers are shopping JvR. I think that Toronto called and asked about him, and out of respect for his long time friend, Brian Burke, Holmgren discussed a return.

If the GM is hanging up the phone the moment a certain name is brought up, he's not doing his job. If you get a good enough offer, nobody is untouchable.

i have no idea if schenn will be a first pairing guy or not, but i would consider brooks orpik a first pairing d man, and he doesn't have much of an offensive game
- FlyerMike18

GTFO TROLL

It IS early.

I don't think the Flyers are shopping JvR. I think that Toronto called and asked about him, and out of respect for his long time friend, Brian Burke, Holmgren discussed a return.

If the GM is hanging up the phone the moment a certain name is brought up, he's not doing his job. If you get a good enough offer, nobody is untouchable.
- Jsaquella

Well, Carchidi says a Flyers official says JvR for Schenn isn't happening.
- Jsaquella

must be JVR and a 2nd for franson then

He had offseason surgery to repair a sports hernia. From the time he got here I absolutely hated the guy. But looking at what he became in florida after the surgery leads me to believe he was damaged goods when the Flyers got him. Which leads me to believe that physicals mean nothing when a team wants a guy bad enough. Which leads me to believe that if toronto wants JVR bad enough however badly he's messed up, he will pass that physical in Toronto.
- JoeRussomanno

If KV arrived in Philly with a sports hernia there is no way he could/should have passed a physical. Like you said, if a team REALLY wants a guy they will look the other way. It's not good business imo. Plus, I think what JVR has is more serious than a sports hernia which makes the whole thing more intriguing/unbelievable.

must be JVR and a 2nd for franson then
- isaiah520

Could be a different package. Maybe it's Gunnarsson and Kulemin.

I'd also expect the Flyers to deny rumors. What if Burke is simply trying to play the Flyers against the Ducks? What if the trade falls through after you admit the discussions? Then you have a disgruntled JvR on your hands.

GTFO TROLL
- OrangeBlack27

GM's have teams and relationships built with certain guys. It's no mistake that the Flyers seem to make deals with certain teams repeatedly. And I'm sure that if the Flyers are looking to move a lesser player, he may give the GM's he has a relationship with first shot. But when your talking about top players and first round draft picks, favors don't happen. If I'm a team President or Owner and I think my GM is giving away those assets as favors, he's be out the door with those favors. And he can see if the GM he gave a favor to, will do him a favor and give him a job.
- MJL

Its not like I'm saying Homer is just letting Burke pick his pockets. Furthermore I'm almost certain everything he does, snider is in the loop somewhere. Even you admit that relationships between individuals and teams do transpire, so its not a stretch of the imagination that certain transactions have been made to help one another out. Even if he is doing what I am saying its not without some kind of reciprocation. With the versteeg deal I just don't see what the major deal was to go out and get the guy. Look I'll be the first to admit my theory has holes in it sure no doubt. but if you're running an organization like a pro hockey team you're three steps ahead of what everyone is reading in the papers. What I mean by that is when this deal went down, it didn't look that hot for the flyers and I feel there was some sort of other agreement made.

If KV arrived in Philly with a sports hernia there is no way he could/should have passed a physical. Like you said, if a team REALLY wants a guy they will look the other way. It's not good business imo. Plus, I think what JVR has is more serious than a sports hernia which makes the whole thing more intriguing/unbelievable.
- rockychocbill

I'd guess that the Flyers knew he wasn't 100%, but felt he could play through the injury and be effective.

Then with the way the off season shook out, they couldn't afford to keep his cap hit, so he was moved.

Its not like I'm saying Homer is just letting Burke pick his pockets. Furthermore I'm almost certain everything he does, snider is in the loop somewhere. Even you admit that relationships between individuals and teams do transpire, so its not a stretch of the imagination that certain transactions have been made to help one another out. Even if he is doing what I am saying its not without some kind of reciprocation. With the versteeg deal I just don't see what the major deal was to go out and get the guy. Look I'll be the first to admit my theory has holes in it sure no doubt. but if you're running an organization like a pro hockey team you're three steps ahead of what everyone is reading in the papers. What I mean by that is when this deal went down, it didn't look that hot for the flyers and I feel there was some sort of other agreement made.
- JoeRussomanno

Joe's theory

If KV arrived in Philly with a sports hernia there is no way he could/should have passed a physical. Like you said, if a team REALLY wants a guy they will look the other way. It's not good business imo. Plus, I think what JVR has is more serious than a sports hernia which makes the whole thing more intriguing/unbelievable.
- rockychocbill

He had a sports hernia which impacted his play. Is it good business? that depends on the situation. For instance say the Flyers got shea weber right now by only giving up JVR. Perhaps they both are injured but both teams want to either part ways with a player, or obtain the other one, keep in mind this is hypothetical, would they not see to it this player passes the physical? It would not be the first time a doctor cleared a player to play that shouldn't.

Joe's theory

yup and sure tastes good when you sink your teeth into it!

plays with letang pretty regularly (when he's healthy of course)....

gets more than 4-5 type guy minutes on the pens, a team i'd say has some nice d depth
- FlyerMike18

Outside of Letang their whole defense is made up of 3-4-5 d guys. The fact he skates with Letang at times doesn't "make" him a #2 guy though. It just means Pit doesn't have a #2 guy.

He had a sports hernia which impacted his play. Is it good business? that depends on the situation. For instance say the Flyers got shea weber right now by only giving up JVR. Perhaps they both are injured but both teams want to either part ways with a player, or obtain the other one, keep in mind this is hypothetical, would they not see to it this player passes the physical? It would not be the first time a doctor cleared a player to play that shouldn't.
- JoeRussomanno

As long as both teams acknowledge and accept an injury, the league will approve the trade.

Hell, the Flyers traded Vinny Prospal while he was out with a broken wrist.

I'd guess that the Flyers knew he wasn't 100%, but felt he could play through the injury and be effective.

Then with the way the off season shook out, they couldn't afford to keep his cap hit, so he was moved.
- Jsaquella

We talked about mistakes Holmgren has made. I don't know why they chose to trade Versteeg this past off season. But I don't see Cap space as the reason. Versteeg's Cap hit is 3.083M. They signed Jagr for 3.3M. With the way Versteeg is playing, was it a mistake to trade him? And have had him instead of Jagr?

yup and sure tastes good when you sink your teeth into it!
- JoeRussomanno

sorry buddy, the pics make it endless

As long as both teams acknowledge and accept an injury, the league will approve the trade.

Hell, the Flyers traded Vinny Prospal while he was out with a broken wrist.
- Jsaquella

wow I forgot about that!

We talked about mistakes Holmgren has made. I don't know why they chose to trade Versteeg this past off season. But I don't see Cap space as the reason. Versteeg's Cap hit is 3.083M. They signed Jagr for 3.3M. With the way Versteeg is playing, was it a mistake to trade him? And have had him instead of Jagr?
- MJL

if you said this in June I would have said you're nuts. Looking back and considering the circumstances yea looks like a mistake.