- MJL

Its good when people can laugh at themselves

Its good when people can laugh at themselves
- nails

This is all you got? Weak! I'll stick to the issues and talking Hockey. You can have this.

This is all you got? Weak! I'll stick to the issues and talking Hockey. You can have this.
- MJL

You have said that before, yet oddly, you keep coming back.

You have said that before, yet oddly, you keep coming back.
- nails

Well you let me know when your ready to talk Hockey, and I'll be glad to continue this conversation. The reason why you needed to get personal is obvious. If that's what you gotta do, then have at it. Your on your own.

Well you let me know when your ready to talk Hockey, and I'll be glad to continue this conversation. The reason why you needed to get personal is obvious. If that's what you gotta do, then have at it. Your on your own.
- MJL

But you don't discuss hockey/view points.
You tell hockey.
I would love to actually have a discussion with you, especially because you are one of the more knowledgable individuals around here and believe it or not, I actually have respect for your understanding of things, especially the cba.
When you are ready to have a discussion and not just be dismissive of my viewpoint and stating yours as fact, I am more than ready to go.

But you don't discuss hockey/view points.
You tell hockey.
I would love to actually have a discussion with you, especially because you are one of the more knowledgable individuals around here and believe it or not, I actually have respect for your understanding of things, especially the cba.
When you are ready to have a discussion and not just be dismissive of my viewpoint and stating yours as fact, I am more than ready to go.
- nails

Anytime my freind. But thinking that I state my opinions as fact, and that I dismiss your viewpoint is your hangup, not mine. And your issue, not mine. If I dismissed your viewpoint, I would just ignore you as I do others.
I'm very confident in my opinions and my knowledge of the game. I'm not going to apologise for that. If I think something is off base, I'm not afraid to say so. That's how I roll!

Anytime my freind. But thinking that I state my opinions as fact, and that I dismiss your viewpoint is your hangup, not mine. And your issue, not mine. If I dismissed your viewpoint, I would just ignore you as I do others.
I'm very confident in my opinions and my knowledge of the game. I'm not going to apologise for that. If I think something is off base, I'm not afraid to say so. That's how I roll!
- MJL

You realize that I do not discount Carters value as a player correct?

Anytime my freind. But thinking that I state my opinions as fact, and that I dismiss your viewpoint is your hangup, not mine. And your issue, not mine. If I dismissed your viewpoint, I would just ignore you as I do others.
I'm very confident in my opinions and my knowledge of the game. I'm not going to apologise for that. If I think something is off base, I'm not afraid to say so. That's how I roll!
- MJL

cinnamon? or like quarters?

You realize that I do not discount Carters value as a player correct?
- nails

I never thought that you did.

Anytime my freind. But thinking that I state my opinions as fact, and that I dismiss your viewpoint is your hangup, not mine.
- MJL

It's everyone's hangup LOL

but seriously, if you just changed your tone a little bit you wouldnt be getting into these knockdown dragout 5 page debates that always deteriorate into you saying "talk hockey or im done with you!"


unless -- gasp! -- that's what you are after

It's everyone's hangup LOL

but seriously, if you just changed your tone a little bit you wouldnt be getting into these knockdown dragout 5 page debates that always deteriorate into you saying "talk hockey or im done with you!"


unless -- gasp! -- that's what you are after
- Crimsoninja

you are almost as smart as marooninja

It's everyone's hangup LOL

but seriously, if you just changed your tone a little bit you wouldnt be getting into these knockdown dragout 5 page debates that always deteriorate into you saying "talk hockey or im done with you!"


unless -- gasp! -- that's what you are after
- Crimsoninja

post edited

It's everyone's hangup LOL

but seriously, if you just changed your tone a little bit you wouldnt be getting into these knockdown dragout 5 page debates that always deteriorate into you saying "talk hockey or im done with you!"


unless -- gasp! -- that's what you are after
- Crimsoninja

Your opinion on this matter has been noted and deemed irrelevant. It has therefore been given the typical laughing smiley.
If you aren't going to waste time typing your uninformed and uneducated factoids about hockey, we are done here.
At least until later.

Your opinion on this matter has been noted and deemed irrelevant. It has therefore been given the typical laughing smiley.
If you aren't going to waste time typing your uninformed and uneducated factoids about hockey, we are done here.
At least until later.
- nails

w33k

if its all hockey why do some people send pms to people to plead their case?

OK, so is Carter the equivalent or better than the following:
Iginla
Vanek
Toews
Kane
Nash
Datsyuk
Zetterberg
Kopitar
Elias
Gaborik
Spezza
Heatley
thorton
Marleau
Lecavalier
Either Sedin
Semin

I think you can compare him to a couple of these guys, but IMO I would take these guys over Carter.
All of them are over 6M, I think over half are near or above 7M

I think Carter best compares to a guy like....
Cammelerri


I bring this up because you have been on the sign carter at all costs, even 7M.
He isn't worth 7M. At least no yet and until he scores 40+ at least once more or gets over 80 points, I won't put him in the pay scale with the other guys.
If he is willing so sign a short term deal in the 5.5-6M range I would be more willing to find a way to keep him.
If it takes 7M, it hurts the overall team too much, especially if it is a long term deal.
So I open up talks now. get an idea of where his agent is at. If it is long term and over 6.5M, I am shopping. Getting ideas about what I can get.

OK, so is Carter the equivalent or better than the following:
Iginla
Vanek
Toews
Kane
Nash
Datsyuk
Zetterberg
Kopitar
Elias
Gaborik
Spezza
Heatley
thorton
Marleau
Lecavalier
Either Sedin
Semin

I think you can compare him to a couple of these guys, but IMO I would take these guys over Carter.
All of them are over 6M, I think over half are near or above 7M

I think Carter best compares to a guy like....
Cammelerri


I bring this up because you have been on the sign carter at all costs, even 7M.
He isn't worth 7M. At least no yet and until he scores 40+ at least once more or gets over 80 points, I won't put him in the pay scale with the other guys.
If he is willing so sign a short term deal in the 5.5-6M range I would be more willing to find a way to keep him.
If it takes 7M, it hurts the overall team too much, especially if it is a long term deal.
So I open up talks now. get an idea of where his agent is at. If it is long term and over 6.5M, I am shopping. Getting ideas about what I can get.
- nails

expect a response at 713am EDT -- just like the confederates answered the union charges --- 9 or so hours to late to be relevant

OK, so is Carter the equivalent or better than the following:
Iginla
Vanek
Toews
Kane
Nash
Datsyuk
Zetterberg
Kopitar
Elias
Gaborik
Spezza
Heatley
thorton
Marleau
Lecavalier
Either Sedin
Semin

I think you can compare him to a couple of these guys, but IMO I would take these guys over Carter.
All of them are over 6M, I think over half are near or above 7M

I think Carter best compares to a guy like....
Cammelerri


I bring this up because you have been on the sign carter at all costs, even 7M.
He isn't worth 7M. At least no yet and until he scores 40+ at least once more or gets over 80 points, I won't put him in the pay scale with the other guys.
If he is willing so sign a short term deal in the 5.5-6M range I would be more willing to find a way to keep him.
If it takes 7M, it hurts the overall team too much, especially if it is a long term deal.
So I open up talks now. get an idea of where his agent is at. If it is long term and over 6.5M, I am shopping. Getting ideas about what I can get.
- nails

This has all been covered and discussed ad nauseum. There are a number of players on that list that Carter compares to and is equal to. There are some that he is better than. But you would take them all over Carter. I rest my case. And before you say that Carter isn't worth 7M, you have to understand the NHL salary structure. Everyone was saying Coburn should get a 1M raise to a about 2.2-2.5M, and I said he's going to get 3M plus. What did he get?
I disagree totally with your take on Carter as a player. The fact that you compare Carter to Cammaleiri tells me all I need to know. And on his worth in his next deal. I don't think anything more needs to be said.

This has all been covered and discussed ad nauseum. There are a number of players on that list that Carter compares to and is equal to. There are some that he is better than. But you would take them all over Carter. I rest my case. And before you say that Carter isn't worth 7M, you have to understand the NHL salary structure. Everyone was saying Coburn should get a 1M raise to a about 2.2-2.5M, and I said he's going to get 3M plus. What did he get?
I disagree totally with your take on Carter as a player. The fact that you compare Carter to Cammaleiri tells me all I need to know. And on his worth in his next deal. I don't think anything more needs to be said.
- MJL

That was a no brainer. Especially after how much Homer gave to that wunderkind Jones.

Realistically you can say Carter is worth 7m, and thats fine. I can say he is worth 5.75 mil and thats fine. Odds are its gonna be somewhere in the middle. Honestly, at 25 years old, having played in the NHL for 5 full seasons, and only having put up over 61 points 1 time, i dont think he is on the same level right now, as guys like Nash, Heatley, Thornton, Marleau, Iginla, either sedin ( who both make just over 6mil), Marty St. Louis (who makes 5.25), Ryan Getzlaf ( who makes 5.3).

I honestly think the season (obviously) is what determines his contract. If he is able to duplicate his season from 2 years ago, or better it, we can expect to see 6.5 mil go to him ( i still dont see him getting Iginla money). If he produces on the same level as he did last year, i would be suprised to see him get more then 6.

This has all been covered and discussed ad nauseum. There are a number of players on that list that Carter compares to and is equal to. There are some that he is better than. But you would take them all over Carter. I rest my case. And before you say that Carter isn't worth 7M, you have to understand the NHL salary structure. Everyone was saying Coburn should get a 1M raise to a about 2.2-2.5M, and I said he's going to get 3M plus. What did he get?
I disagree totally with your take on Carter as a player. The fact that you compare Carter to Cammaleiri tells me all I need to know. And on his worth in his next deal. I don't think anything more needs to be said.
- MJL

But this is why it is never a discussion with you.
You don't actually pose a counter argument.
instead you tell me that I don't understand the inner workings of the NHL like you do and are therefore not worth conversing with about the topic.
You may not be as overt as others when it comes to personal attacks, but your backhand is just as strong. Maybe you should reread your PM and take some of it to heart.

Just because the NHL's current salary structure puts Carter into that category does not mean he belongs there. Yes, I would take most of the guys on that list over Carter. Porbably not Semin, and I would put Carter on the same playing field as Kopitar and Spezza.
And no, in all around game he and cammalleri are not the same player, but in terms of offense they are.

But this is why it is never a discussion with you.
You don't actually pose a counter argument.
instead you tell me that I don't understand the inner workings of the NHL like you do and are therefore not worth conversing with about the topic.
You may not be as overt as others when it comes to personal attacks, but your backhand is just as strong. Maybe you should reread your PM and take some of it to heart.


- nails

I don't offer a counter argument? Sure I do. I've done it for days with you! Your kidding me right. When you provide a list of players and say they're all better than Carter, when some of them obviously aren't, then I don't feel the need to continue after discussing this for days with you. There's a whole host of variables when comparing players as you have. Including age, experience level, etc.

Just because the NHL's current salary structure puts Carter into that category does not mean he belongs there. Yes, I would take most of the guys on that list over Carter. Porbably not Semin, and I would put Carter on the same playing field as Kopitar and Spezza.
And no, in all around game he and cammalleri are not the same player, but in terms of offense they are.
- nails

Now your changing your statement. Why doesn't Carter belong there? He does belong there. We disagree. I'm not going to change my mind, are you?

That was a no brainer. Especially after how much Homer gave to that wunderkind Jones.

Realistically you can say Carter is worth 7m, and thats fine. I can say he is worth 5.75 mil and thats fine. Odds are its gonna be somewhere in the middle. Honestly, at 25 years old, having played in the NHL for 5 full seasons, and only having put up over 61 points 1 time, i dont think he is on the same level right now, as guys like Nash, Heatley, Thornton, Marleau, Iginla, either sedin ( who both make just over 6mil), Marty St. Louis (who makes 5.25), Ryan Getzlaf ( who makes 5.3).

I honestly think the season (obviously) is what determines his contract. If he is able to duplicate his season from 2 years ago, or better it, we can expect to see 6.5 mil go to him ( i still dont see him getting Iginla money). If he produces on the same level as he did last year, i would be suprised to see him get more then 6.
- jak521

Coburn was a no brainer to some, to some it wasn't.

I'm going to attempt to explain it to you one more time. Because obviously using Getzlaff as a comparison, you don't understand how it works.

Both Getzlaff and Carter are in their intermediate contracts after their EL deals. Carter's expires one year before he reached UFA status. Getzlaff current deal expires into UFA status. So unless Carter signs a 1 year deal, both players next deal will take them into their UFA years.
So your comparing Carter's next deal, which will will take him into his UFA years, with Getzlaff's current intermediate deal. Guess what? Getzlaff's intermediate deal is higher than Carter's! And you say Carter isn't worth more than Getzlaff. I have to ask you, what are you talking about? You don't understand.
What do you think Getzlaff's next deal is going to be worth, that he signs when his current deal expires? Your comparing apples and oranges. Your comparing one contract level to another. It's not the same! The comparison is Getzlaff's current deal, to Carter's current deal. Or Carter's future deal to Getzlaff's future deal. Not Carter's future deal to Getzlaff's current deal.
I hope your right, I hope Carter signs a long term deal for 6M. That would be steal. But my guess is the conversation won't even start if that's the offer.

And Carter is every bit as good as Nash. I'd give Nash an edge offensively, but as an overall player, I give Carter the edge. If I had to make a choice, I'd probably give the edge to Nash right now.
And the other players you name are significantly older than Carter and have more years experience as players. So to compare, let's review Carter to those other players in 4 years or so.

This has all been covered and discussed ad nauseum. There are a number of players on that list that Carter compares to and is equal to. There are some that he is better than. But you would take them all over Carter. I rest my case. And before you say that Carter isn't worth 7M, you have to understand the NHL salary structure. Everyone was saying Coburn should get a 1M raise to a about 2.2-2.5M, and I said he's going to get 3M plus. What did he get?
I disagree totally with your take on Carter as a player. The fact that you compare Carter to Cammaleiri tells me all I need to know. And on his worth in his next deal. I don't think anything more needs to be said.
- MJL

I was off by 28 minutes

you are almost as smart as marooninja
- lukin