The choice of words was particularly cringe-worthy.
Tears lol.... ironically BC were the ones crying after getting shut out
It actually happens all the time behind the scenes.
Deployment and icetime and linemates are all on the table when it's contract time, and when guys are being convinced to join teams. Coach may not always respect those assurances but they're given.
The one example that sticks out to me is Duncan Keith:
Made them promise him a spot on PP1 before he agreed to sign his 13-year monster deal. - Tomahawk
Agreed, I'm aware that players "choose" where they want to play, and who they might play with and for whom, but hopefully this is something more common with veterans who have proven themselves to be the kind of player who is "money". Panarin comes to mind, or just about any player who has demanded to play in NY. It's easy to tell Panarin named his destination, but he is hitting the smallest openings in the net - a true sniper. My point is that prospects should not be given this perk as they haven't "done anything yet" in the NHL. As a coach, I've had to manage primadonnas. I loosened my hard line when I saw people produce --consistently. Why not? But only after seeing the production. Anyone demanding that sort of treatment beforehand had to earn it first.
You are probably right about this, more & more we are seeing prospects make demands. I'm thinking this might be one of the reasons NJ took a step back this year. Or, the other bloggers here talking about how Torts is getting credit for getting more out of a lesser talented group vs. other teams in the NHL who are getting less with better talent. Like it or not, Torts' techniques work. The problem is he's a human being and he makes mistakes like everyone else. You have to take the good with the bad. All of us would make mistakes, just different ones.
Did you see the bulletin board material CG provided for Denver in the finals? Not only was it overconfident/cocky, but it was inconsistent with a lot of the NHL culture. Players don't go public disrespecting opponents. They might trash talk on the ice, but that's gamesmanship.
You're probably right about what he saw, but do we want prospects coming in and telling management how they are deployed? When and where to use them? When they make the team?
There's nothing worse trying to coach players who think they're bigger than the team. Makes the job 10x harder. - BluehorseShoe64
LOL. Yes we do want prospects like Gauthier to come in and this team is in no position to quibble over the minor discrepancies that you mention.
Was there any reason given for benching Frost, Cam, and Brink? Frost was 5-6 on faceoffs in his 10 shifts. Probably could have used him in a tied game with playoffs hanging on by a thread.
What the outside is pointing out is that this team is not the 21rst most talented team. They say it’s was a great job all around by Torts to get “THAT” group any where close to sniffing the playoffs.
Do I think he did a great job? Somethings yes. Others no, not by a long shot. - landros 2
I guess i never understood that point of view. The reason the Flyers were close to being the 3rd team in the metro is how utterly horrible the metro was outside of the top 2 teams this year. 3rd place in the metro was 15 points worse than last year to lock up the spot. If the NJD hadn't dropped 31 points from last year, crazy, they probably don't get near a playoff spot seeing as how the Flyers have what, 2 wins in 2024 against division opponents with both coming in the last week and one of those being NJD?
Let's also remember the Flyers got their #1 center back and top line winger who both missed last year. Just saying as to why would the Flyers be expected to improve from last year when they had 2 of their top players, who didn't play last year, return this year?
Torts certainly played the poop out of Coots early on to rack up those early wins.
Enough ranting. Anyway, to me it seems like a mirage and i think how bad the Flyers are statistically back me up.
Did you see the bulletin board material CG provided for Denver in the finals? Not only was it overconfident/cocky, but it was inconsistent with a lot of the NHL culture. Players don't go public disrespecting opponents. They might trash talk on the ice, but that's gamesmanship.
You're probably right about what he saw, but do we want prospects coming in and telling management how they are deployed? When and where to use them? When they make the team?
There's nothing worse trying to coach players who think they're bigger than the team. Makes the job 10x harder. - BluehorseShoe64
Like it or not, Torts' techniques work. The problem is he's a human being and he makes mistakes like everyone else. You have to take the good with the bad. All of us would make mistakes, just different ones. - BluehorseShoe64
No, they don't work. Not at all. Tortorella is the equivalent of a good interim coach. Any good interim head coach should be able to get a team to play with more structure and decent defensively. Which is all that Tortorella has done. He has not done anything as an NHL coach basically for 20 years! How does it work? The NHL media fellates over an old school overrated dinosaur of a coach that is horrible in developing players. His in game coaching and strategy, his player deployment is horrible and he has a complete inability to coach offensive hockey. Neither does anyone on his staff. He is an archaic and overrated coach that also has severe personality disorders in constantly wanting confrontation with his players and uses that as an evaluation tool. He repeatedly disrespects players. That is who this organization has hitched their wagon to.
I guess i never understood that point of view. The reason the Flyers were close to being the 3rd team in the metro is how utterly horrible the metro was outside of the top 2 teams this year. 3rd place in the metro was 15 points worse than last year to lock up the spot. If the NJD hadn't dropped 31 points from last year, crazy, they probably don't get near a playoff spot seeing as how the Flyers have what, 2 wins in 2024 against division opponents with both coming in the last week and one of those being NJD?
Let's also remember the Flyers got their #1 center back and top line winger who both missed last year. Just saying as to why would the Flyers be expected to improve from last year when they had 2 of their top players, who didn't play last year, return this year?
Torts certainly played the poop out of Coots early on to rack up those early wins.
Enough ranting. Anyway, to me it seems like a mirage and i think how bad the Flyers are statistically back me up. - Flyers_01
Location: Driver's Seat: Mitch Marner bandwagon. Grab 'em by the Corsi. Joined: 02.04.2009
Apr 17 @ 10:42 AM ET
Agreed, I'm aware that players "choose" where they want to play, and who they might play with and for whom, but hopefully this is something more common with veterans who have proven themselves to be the kind of player who is "money". Panarin comes to mind, or just about any player who has demanded to play in NY. It's easy to tell Panarin named his destination, but he is hitting the smallest openings in the net - a true sniper. My point is that prospects should not be given this perk as they haven't "done anything yet" in the NHL. As a coach, I've had to manage primadonnas. I loosened my hard line when I saw people produce --consistently. Why not? But only after seeing the production. Anyone demanding that sort of treatment beforehand had to earn it first.
You are probably right about this, more & more we are seeing prospects make demands. I'm thinking this might be one of the reasons NJ took a step back this year. Or, the other bloggers here talking about how Torts is getting credit for getting more out of a lesser talented group vs. other teams in the NHL who are getting less with better talent. Like it or not, Torts' techniques work. The problem is he's a human being and he makes mistakes like everyone else. You have to take the good with the bad. All of us would make mistakes, just different ones. - BluehorseShoe64
Prospect, veteran, it doesn't matter. It's only about leverage. When a player has leverage that creates an opportunity to make demands.
That's why virtually all top NCAA players get to burn that year off, why they go straight into the lineup without earning anything. The threat of going Adam Fox is always in their back pocket. It's nothing new, it's been happening for decades.
Does Fedotov come over if he's not promised a spot in the lineup right away, burning the tolled year off his contract?
You can bet Michkov will look for guarantees before he crosses over as well.
Cutter had leverage and the Flyers tried to call his bluff but then he painted them into a corner. Real amateur hour stuff.
LOL. Yes we do want prospects like Gauthier to come in and this team is in no position to quibble over the minor discrepancies that you mention. - MJL
There are plenty of prospects who come in to the league without telling their teams what to do. We made a mistake with this pick, period. That's on the scouts.
Otherwise, what is the point of having a coaching staff if prospects come in and tell everyone what to do? That's nonsense and chaotic. Think of the minor league teams and their coaching staffs, plus the NHL staff and all of the scouts and front office - just puppets? The real thinking is done by elite prospects and their agents? Game plans too? C'mon. Crazy talk.
Prospect, veteran, it doesn't matter. It's only about leverage. When a player has leverage that creates an opportunity to make demands.
That's why virtually all top NCAA players get to burn that year off, why they go straight into the lineup without earning anything. The threat of going Adam Fox is always in their back pocket. It's nothing new, it's been happening for decades.
Does Fedotov come over if he's not promised a spot in the lineup right away, burning the tolled year off his contract?
You can bet Michkov will look for guarantees before he crosses over as well.
Cutter had leverage and the Flyers tried to call his bluff but then they blinked first. Real amateur hour stuff. - Tomahawk
The Flyers desperation burned them on Fedotov but goes to your point (and to the Flyers "win now" mentality instead of rebuild). The Flyers showed that they are not above burning years off of contracts. It's not about "deserve" it's about leverage and that may not be fair but it's the world we live in.
The only FA’s the flyers should sign is to fill in gaps for a year or two until they get a more permanent and stable option.
To beat a dead horse. I think it’s very possible CG saw how the younger talented players were dealt with by being benched or scratched so often and thought to himself screw that why would I subject myself to that BS.
If DB knows for a fact that CG said he will not play for Torts do you really think he would say so publicly?
If you’re giving a list of 20 teams you would play for it doesn’t appear CG just wanted to go to a top team to maybe win the cup easier.
IMO Torts isn’t back after next season. - bird_dog_pa
It’s public knowledge cg wanted and expected to be signed to his elc after first year college. Db balked (rightfully so) and had him return to college for another year.
It’s public knowledge cg wanted and expected to be signed to his elc after first year college. Db balked (rightfully so) and had him return to college for another year.
Cg threw a hissy fit and played games.
He had no problem playing for torts - Stayin alive
Agreed. The same analysts who defended CG now say him spending another year at the collegiate level was the right thing for him. It can't be both.
He disagreed with the decision, wanted on to the roster right away and that's just not how things are done on some teams. Some teams actually have coaches make those decisions, at the right time. Who's kidding who here? Elite prospects are going to get their chances, and in some cases, more than lower prospects because people don't want egg on their face. They just have to be patient and trust their coaches and development staffs.
landros 2 Season Ticket Holder Philadelphia Flyers
There are plenty of prospects who come in to the league without telling their teams what to do. We made a mistake with this pick, period. That's on the scouts.
Otherwise, what is the point of having a coaching staff if prospects come in and tell everyone what to do? That's nonsense and chaotic. Think of the minor league teams and their coaching staffs, plus the NHL staff and all of the scouts and front office - just puppets? The real thinking is done by elite prospects and their agents? Game plans too? C'mon. Crazy talk. - BluehorseShoe64
There are plenty of players who do things different than others when it comes to contract situations. All depends on the leverage you have. You clearly don't understand this. The Flyers screwed up royally. Now you've already declared the pick a mistake. LOL
No prospect comes in and tells everyone what to do. That's hyperbole
I think that crowd ate it all up anyway when Jones said 'If you don't want to be a Flyer, you won't be' - TobyFlenderson
Yes I will admit when it came out that was my knee jerk reaction too… “(frank) him he doesn’t want to be here trade his spoiled entitled ass”.
But here’s the thing…. After a small period of time and taking emotion out of it and actually thinking about it it was absolutely a stupid move. Philly held his rights and had the power or leverage. They handled it wrong.
The real kicker is I’m just a fan. I’m not paid professional gm that needs to make those decisions and take emotion out of it. When it went public all 3 jones torts db spewed the same angry narrative.
Will they ever look back and say wait maybe we played that wrong? Probably not. I mean I admit I was wrong with knee jerk reaction. That’s what’s troubling with this team.
Agreed. The same analysts who defended CG now say him spending another year at the collegiate level was the right thing for him. It can't be both.
He disagreed with the decision, wanted on to the roster right away and that's just not how things are done on some teams. Some teams actually have coaches make those decisions, at the right time. Who's kidding who here? Elite prospects are going to get their chances, and in some cases, more than lower prospects because people don't want egg on their face. They just have to be patient and trust their coaches and development staffs. - BluehorseShoe64
Hopefully the Flyers have learned their lesson here on how to handle a top prospect. I doubt it though.
