This is why +/- is a useless statistic.
- mjones242

That's why the 5v5 numbers are used - that's basically Goals For - Goals Against at 5v5. Noting that defensive play is enhanced by simply being on a line that has the puck more than the opposition or that carries the play and possesses it in the offensive zone. You can watch guys like Domi, Bertuzzi, Nylander and Gregor and recognize that while there are some things they do well, there are a number of defensive postures that they fail at - they don't close tight on an opponent well enough although often when they do, they are beaten in the 1 on 1 - whether it's physical or simply outmaneuvered. Domi and Nylander are both particularly guilty of the one-handed fly-by where you hope to pluck the puck and go - but it fails about 90% of the time, so you end up putting your team at a disadvantage by taking yourself out of position.

In Domi's case he's benefitted from participating well in the possession side. In Nylander's case he's honestly hampered by having a centre who is no longer at the top of his game - but he's further hampered by cheating on the puck way too often. It's hard to blame Gregor - he's just not that good. Bertuzzi is a guy that I find hard to explain. You ever play hockey drunk? You're like all over the ice and you think you're playing well and the rest of your team is looking at you like, "What the Hell is up with you?" . . . This might just be my take, but Bertuzzi is like that. An all effort whirling dervish, and usually WAY out of position as a result.

On the flipside of the criticisms, I have to admit that there's been noticeable growth in the defensive side of a few guys (still a lot of brain farts, but things are improving) - like Knies, Holmberg, and in particular - McMann.

Dodgers bullied fan into giving up Ohtani HR ball..for a few hats and a bat ..lame.. shameful
- senstroll

That's such a bad look. It's amplified by Ohtani claiming he spoke to the fan and they agreed to give up the ball, but he never did - and the fan was simply bullied into surrendering a $100k ball.

MLB is leading the pack right now in the IDGAF mentality of professional sports making it clear they don't give a crap about you. None of them do, but baseball doesn't care what you think.

At least there is an easy 2pts on the board for Saturday for the Leafs
- Symba007

That's such a bad look. It's amplified by Ohtani claiming he spoke to the fan and they agreed to give up the ball, but he never did - and the fan was simply bullied into surrendering a $100k ball.

MLB is leading the pack right now in the IDGAF mentality of professional sports making it clear they don't give a crap about you. None of them do, but baseball doesn't care what you think.
- Monkeypunk

yeah, some of the tactics they used apparently is they separated her from her husband (a bunch of security guards) and did the "negotiation" and said they wont authenticate the ball if it leaves with her.

hard to say the value, but 100K is what is being mentioned.. you sell a winning lottery ticket for 1% of its value

new blog everyone

He's +3 on Toronto.

SO MAYBE YOU SHOULD STABILIZE YOUR GOD-DAMNED MOUTH!
- Atomic Wedgie

wow.

WOW.

That's why the 5v5 numbers are used - that's basically Goals For - Goals Against at 5v5. Noting that defensive play is enhanced by simply being on a line that has the puck more than the opposition or that carries the play and possesses it in the offensive zone. You can watch guys like Domi, Bertuzzi, Nylander and Gregor and recognize that while there are some things they do well, there are a number of defensive postures that they fail at - they don't close tight on an opponent well enough although often when they do, they are beaten in the 1 on 1 - whether it's physical or simply outmaneuvered. Domi and Nylander are both particularly guilty of the one-handed fly-by where you hope to pluck the puck and go - but it fails about 90% of the time, so you end up putting your team at a disadvantage by taking yourself out of position.

In Domi's case he's benefitted from participating well in the possession side. In Nylander's case he's honestly hampered by having a centre who is no longer at the top of his game - but he's further hampered by cheating on the puck way too often. It's hard to blame Gregor - he's just not that good. Bertuzzi is a guy that I find hard to explain. You ever play hockey drunk? You're like all over the ice and you think you're playing well and the rest of your team is looking at you like, "What the Hell is up with you?" . . . This might just be my take, but Bertuzzi is like that. An all effort whirling dervish, and usually WAY out of position as a result.

On the flipside of the criticisms, I have to admit that there's been noticeable growth in the defensive side of a few guys (still a lot of brain farts, but things are improving) - like Knies, Holmberg, and in particular - McMann.
- Monkeypunk

Even just narrowing the scope to 5v5 produces numbers that are hopelessly reductive.

For example, it does not take into consideration strength of opposing lines, strength of linemates, zone starts, etc. It also uses events that are far too rare - goals for/against - to really provide any statistical meaningfulness, which, of course, is why Corsi, Fenwick, et al were created and are only slightly less flawed tools.

We all know that Domi is not a good defensive player. But how can we measure and quantify that lack of defensive prowess? +/- is not that tool and should be thrown into the trash bin.