"The player had a 10 team list. Dorion knew about the list. That's material for VGK because he became its property. Any trade restriction would have been something that VGK put into the mix to determine what to offer OTT for the player. This was f*ckery, not just negligence."

This is where it gets stinky for me. The list is and was in the public domain. You can use the internet/way back machine to find out. Capfriendly had it. Vegas knew about the list. But perhaps not the updated list. I think that's where Dorian was negligent. He didn't give them the updated list. But I don't see how it's worth a 1st round pick. There's no way that Vegas had already decided to flip the asset a year in advance to Anaheim, check and see if Anaheim wasn't on the list and say "oh...ok we're good".

You can't get into the rest of the league's punishments for more severe crimes and female dog about it. Total "whataboutism". It's everywhere in society and politics and it's annoying. Dorion didn't give them the updated list, Vegas, Anaheim and the NHL got embarrassed by a technicality that several layers of lawyers and auditors should have seen but didn't...and as our new owner said "had to have their pound of flesh".

I love Andlauer calling out the league over the sports gambling hypocrisy. I like this guy.
- Octavarium

Where are finding the list of the exact teams on the internet? I've never seen that. Normally when a player has a modified NTC, he has to submit a list of teams during a negotiated time period that will be on his list. I haven't seen that list made public

Where are finding the list of the exact teams on the internet? I've never seen that. Normally when a player has a modified NTC, he has to submit a list of teams during a negotiated time period that will be on his list. I haven't seen that list made public
- MJL

I've never seen an actual list made public, but the fact that the player has the right to submit a list is typically public. Cap Friendly indicates whether a player has NMC/NTC/M-NTC next to a player's name.

I've never seen an actual list made public, but the fact that the player has the right to submit a list is typically public. Cap Friendly indicates whether a player has NMC/NTC/M-NTC next to a player's name.
- Only_A_Ladd

Yes, that is listed for every player who has a contract clause. The actual list of teams is not public that I'm aware of.

Where are finding the list of the exact teams on the internet? I've never seen that. Normally when a player has a modified NTC, he has to submit a list of teams during a negotiated time period that will be on his list. I haven't seen that list made public
- MJL

Does Vegas not have a lawyer or anyone go over the contracts? Why would no one call up the agent and say, "I see he has a NTC in his contract. What's up with that?"

I don't see how Vegas shouldn't bear most of the responsibility here. They had the contact. Even if Ottawa told them he completely waived his NTC in perpetuity, why wouldn't they check that? Did Ottawa forge a fake contract and give them a fake number to call?

Does Vegas not have a lawyer or anyone go over the contracts? Why would no one call up the agent and say, "I see he has a NTC in his contract. What's up with that?"

I don't see how Vegas shouldn't bear most of the responsibility here. They had the contact. Even if Ottawa told them he completely waived his NTC in perpetuity, why wouldn't they check that? Did Ottawa forge a fake contract and give them a fake number to call?
- Squeaky

How about the league? Every trade made, a trade call has to be made into the league for approval. Who approved it for the league. How is Vega liable for the player that Ottawa is trading to them? That's on Ottawa, not Vegas.

How about the league? Every trade made, a trade call has to be made into the league for approval. Who approved it for the league. How is Vega liable for the player that Ottawa is trading to them? That's on Ottawa, not Vegas.
- MJL

How are they liable? They didn't try to flip him immediately. He was on Vegas' roster for months. He wasn't Ottawa's player when the trade to Anaheim happened. How did they not think to check on his NTC before trying to trade him?

I can't think of a single scenario where Vegas isn't at fault here unless Vegas asked Dadonov who was on his list, and he told them to ask Ottawa, and Ottawa wouldn't give them the list. But how likely is that?

How are they liable? They didn't try to flip him immediately. He was on Vegas' roster for months. He wasn't Ottawa's player when the trade to Anaheim happened. How did they not think to check on his NTC before trying to trade him?

I can't think of a single scenario where Vegas isn't at fault here unless Vegas asked Dadonov who was on his list, and he told them to ask Ottawa, and Ottawa wouldn't give them the list. But how likely is that?
- Squeaky

The whole thing stinks. Because of the penalty. We almost have to assume that Dorion willfully withheld the existence of the list OR told Vegas in some fashion that the list was no longer valid, or he had waived. I can't think of any other scenario that warrants a first round pick. And given how hot the owner was yesterday.....maybe even that isn't true. But I remember checking cap friendly when he was traded to see if he had one. And he did. And I remember going "hmm guess the Knights aren't on his list"

Former Hamilton Bulldog (Michael Andlauer owned), Former Montreal Canadien (Michael Andlauer owned) ....Mathieu Darche could be a very good option for GM. He's played for McGill, played in AHL, overseas, and then NHL. He is A.GM in Tampa and as soon as he became Director of Hockey Ops in 2019, Tampa went to the cup finals 3 years in a row. He understands the cap, winning, and the long tourney of developing.

The whole thing stinks. Because of the penalty. We almost have to assume that Dorion willfully withheld the existence of the list OR told Vegas in some fashion that the list was no longer valid, or he had waived. I can't think of any other scenario that warrants a first round pick. And given how hot the owner was yesterday.....maybe even that isn't true. But I remember checking cap friendly when he was traded to see if he had one. And he did. And I remember going "hmm guess the Knights aren't on his list"
- Octavarium

I get that, Ottawa had to have done something shady to get that punishment, but still, how didn't Vegas double-check everything? How is it not standard procedure for a team to have a lawyer call the agent of an incoming player and go over the details of their contract?

What did Ottawa have to gain by withholding the information?

I get that, Ottawa had to have done something shady to get that punishment, but still, how didn't Vegas double-check everything? How is it not standard procedure for a team to have a lawyer call the agent of an incoming player and go over the details of their contract?

What did Ottawa have to gain by withholding the information?
- Squeaky

From what I understood at the time this blew up, the league DOES NOT have a depository with all of the lists. I don't know whether VGK would have been able to speak with the player or its representative without OTT's permission (CBA/tampering issues). So VGK likely asked for the list. What happened next is the mystery.

I would really like to read the report!

While I don’t think Dorion was all bad, his overall track record was and getting docked a 1st rounder is the last straw. Might be a blessing in disguise. I wonder if the leash on DJ smith just shrunk massively.

If Staios isn’t going to be GM long term, get that search started and get a guy in ASAP. This season is salvageable. Get a new GM and likely a new head coach and try to have a great last 3 quarter of the season and get in the news for good reasons rather than bad.

From what I understood at the time this blew up, the league DOES NOT have a depository with all of the lists. I don't know whether VGK would have been able to speak with the player or its representative without OTT's permission (CBA/tampering issues). So VGK likely asked for the list. What happened next is the mystery.

I would really like to read the report!
- Only_A_Ladd

They weren't allowed to speak with the player or his representative after they traded for him? Vegas traded for him in July '21 and tried to trade him to Anaheim in March '22.

How are they liable? They didn't try to flip him immediately. He was on Vegas' roster for months. He wasn't Ottawa's player when the trade to Anaheim happened. How did they not think to check on his NTC before trying to trade him?

I can't think of a single scenario where Vegas isn't at fault here unless Vegas asked Dadonov who was on his list, and he told them to ask Ottawa, and Ottawa wouldn't give them the list. But how likely is that?
- Squeaky

Maybe I don't have full grasp of what went on? Was Vegas on Dadanov NT list when Ottawa traded him?

I believe the reality is that both Ottawa and Vegas should share the blame. Ottawa for not properly passing along the no-trade clause info, and Vegas for not checking the contract and the player and the player's agent once Dadonov arrived in Vegas. Why wouldn't Vegas have checked things out ..... that, while not negligent, is laziness on the team's part.

I hope that the Sens go back to the NHL and ask for leniency on the penalty (maybe a 3rd round pick forfeit). Now that it is all out and Vegas feels exonerated in the eyes of the NHL and players.

Off topic - what's wrong with Connor Brown?

Off topic - what's wrong with Connor Brown?
- PogBoi

You might want to ask that question to all the people on this forum who thought it was egregious/negligent/appalling of the Senators for trading him away for a 2nd round pick.

"However, it doesn't change his frustration that the NHL did not advise him on the complete details of the Dadonov or Pinto investigations before he closed on the purchase of the team.

"Maybe they didn’t want to disrupt the sale to make sure the seller got the best price possible," he said."


if he wanted too, which he wont, he could void the sale right now and sue the NHL for hundreds of millions if he wanted, also the NHL could be criminaly prosecuted/sued by the Ontario AG, not disclosing facts/events that could affect the sale price of the sens is a crime.

They weren't allowed to speak with the player or his representative after they traded for him? Vegas traded for him in July '21 and tried to trade him to Anaheim in March '22.
- Squeaky

No. Before the trade. If VGK believed there was no list submitted or had a list that didn't contain ANA based on anything PD did or did not represent, then there was no need to involve the player or his agent in trade discussions with ANA. Of course, if the league was transparent then we wouldn't have these discussions.

Well, moving onwards, I don't believe that the 2024 first pick will be the one they surrender. With the changes and issues (Pinto, etc.) this pick will still probably be in the top 15. It may take a year to settle everything down and adapt to all the changes ... new GM and assistant GM's (?), Capologist guy, new scouts, etc. as the hockey ops are fleshed out. Plus new coaches (?) and a slow addition as they flesh this team out a bit more. Will changes be made with internal player changes, or with some trades?

I just want then to be competitive this year and make the move next year.

this team is cursed, Greig and now kastelic is out, call it the melnyk curse

Its surprising the nhl doesnt have a central database for all these contracts that can be accessed by teams. Prehistoric lame actually that they don't.

Kings looked like cylons. Bigger ,faster

Goalie-centric...but how is signing Matt Murray not on this list? Or trading away Gus for Cam Talbot?
- GrimmdaGoalie

Fwiw Gus has looked very shaky to start this year, and Talbot has been solid. Goalies are magic beans. People criticized LA for their netminders, but I think theirs is the safest approach in net - keep their contract durations low, and pay them very little. There are only 64 full time net spots in the league, and there are more capable goalies out there than spots available.

Maybe I don't have full grasp of what went on? Was Vegas on Dadanov NT list when Ottawa traded him?
- MJL

Vegas wasn't on the list when Ottawa traded him, but Anaheim was and that became an issue when Vegas tried to trade him nine months later.

I watch mainly the visiting team feed. To learn about the other teams better and to hear outside perspectives of the senators.


A common theme i have heard from them in about 80% of the games. Stutzle has been compared to soccer players, falls down way too easy.
Just saying thats the perception out there across the league .

consolation prize of last night's injury riddled game was the play of Korpisalo. He looks good.

Talbot suddenly making saves for the Kings. Nice. There were back and forth stretches of that game last night that was FAST hockey. We just came up short. I like Klevin.