What first round pick was a bust that the Flyers haven't admitted to?

The problem with that center group is it's not known if there is a 3rd line center in that group.

Schenn not being good at 5 on 5 was a myth.
- MJL

Compared to Ghost, that is true. But he did net a very high proportion of his points on the PP in most seasons of his career.

To be fair, the argument can be made that he was wasted at wing and he showed in St. Louis that playing with talent he is a very capable center.

#1s of the Homer years that are busts: Morin and Laughton. The only real difference between 79.8% PK (19th) and 75.8% (29th) is protecting Laughton instead of PEB (Vegas =#10).

Yes, it proves that intentionally losing for 4 years doesn't automatically net you players who can win a championship unless they get major star power help from outside.
- jmatchett383

So you're saying stars are much more likely to join your team if you build a roster with top young talent?

You keep bringing up false equivalencies. I don't believe that any professional sports team should ever intentionally try to lose.
Your statement that someone doesn't have to watch the product suggests that a fan can take time off from being a fan until they get better again. The Flyers have never intentionally tried to lose.
- MJL

I don't believe the sixers ever intentionally tried to lose. I think they fielded sub-par teams, and see what happened. I am sure they would have loved for their young players to surpass expectations and win a NBA championship. But they thought that most likely they wouldn't, and the consolation prize was a top three pick in the draft.

As for my Flyers comparison, they are doing what you are advocating for, and they consistently have been 2 years away from being 2 years away. Haha not in a bad way, at least the product is some what watchable, but they are mediocre at best. You have to admit that, getting better but mediocre for the last 5 years. My honest opinion is that I would rather run the franchise like the Flyers are doing it, however you have to admit it is taking a lot longer than the so-called "Process".

Compared to Ghost, that is true. But he did net a very high proportion of his points on the PP in most seasons of his career.

To be fair, the argument can be made that he was wasted at wing and he showed in St. Louis that playing with talent he is a very capable center.

#1s of the Homer years that are busts: Morin and Laughton. The only real difference between 79.8% PK (19th) and 75.8% (29th) is protecting Laughton instead of PEB (Vegas =#10).
- hockeyal

Laughton certainly hasn't met the expectations of a first round pick but he's not a bust. Neither is Morin.

Not sure how Gostisbehere fits in here.

I've never even seen either one of you on here before today
- SuperSchennBros

I don't normally comment, because of people like you and MJL, however I have consistently read since 2008.

Once you are out of negatives comments, you come at me for not posting before. Find a new slant my man, haha.

I don't believe the sixers ever intentionally tried to lose. I think they fielded sub-par teams, and see what happened. I am sure they would have loved for their young players to surpass expectations and win a NBA championship. But they thought that most likely they wouldn't, and the consolation prize was a top three pick in the draft.


- ChuckinKnucks

They absolutely intentionally tried to lose.

As for my Flyers comparison, they are doing what you are advocating for, and they consistently have been 2 years away from being 2 years away. Haha not in a bad way, at least the product is some what watchable, but they are mediocre at best. You have to admit that, getting better but mediocre for the last 5 years. My honest opinion is that I would rather run the franchise like the Flyers are doing it, however you have to admit it is taking a lot longer than the so-called "Process".
- ChuckinKnucks

Flyers were a playoff team last season. They're above mediocre.

What exactly am I advocating for?

This guy called me a loser today. You are a literal and proud loser and admit it.

I don't even care if I get banned. Wow!
- SuperSchennBros

Honestly, just hate reading your comments. Thought I might voice it. Peace!

Honestly, just hate reading your comments. Thought I might voice it. Peace!
- ChuckinKnucks

Remember the advice you gave for fans who don't like a team losing? That they don't have to watch the product? Same goes for reading posts.

I don't buy it's a business argument. It is a business, and asking your fan base to dole out money for an intentionally bad product isn't good business, to me. You can win without tanking and tank without winning, there is no guaranteed way to build a championship team.

Just my opinion.
- FlyerFan16

The fans were mostly fine with it. The people most upset were the ones who hardly watched the team.

Is there really anyone here who would take the Flyers last 20 years over the Pens last 20 years?

How exactly was JVR a bust? May not be the 2nd best player in that draft but no where near a bust.

It was 2 first round draft picks and they had plenty of room for the salary dump. Can't make a determination on that trade for at least another 3-4 years.

You just included the salary suck in your "loaded for talent at center" comment. Vecchione is unproven in the NHL and they seem to be reluctant to give Laughton more responsibility, not sure why. Still think they need to add a 3c that's good on the PK.
- FlyerFan16

The Flyers needed a center so they pay more than anyone else was willing to long term for a wing. That is a Homer move if I ever saw one. That was my point about JVR. Another potential scorer who doesn't play defense, and who has had trouble playing a full season through his career is not a solution to the Flyers core issues.

Saying Lehtera is good enough to play 4th line center until a kid can step up, or saying he is better that Laughton, isn't high praise, and has nothing to do with whether he is worth $4.7M (to play on the 4th line). They need a veteran D like de Haan who will let the puck movers do their thing, and make the ones who don't ever get near their own goal or behind their own net less of a liability.

The fans were mostly fine with it. The people most upset were the ones who hardly watched the team.

Is there really anyone here who would take the Flyers last 20 years over the Pens last 20 years?
- PhillySportsGuy

Lol.

They absolutely intentionally tried to lose.



Flyers were a playoff team last season. They're above mediocre.

What exactly am I advocating for?
- MJL

Not tanking. The Flyers are not tanking, which is what you are advocating for. THe proper way to run an organization? Right?

Yes, the flyers were mediocre. Please don't do this. They were not consistent all year, and barely made it into the playoffs. And how much above mediocre were they really?

Finally, you have no proof that that sixers tried to lose. We could maybe deduce that, but I would argue they never lost a game on purpose, just didn't field a team that could win consistently. No player went on that court, and threw a game. So therefore, they were trying to win. Regardless of what management was doing.

Honestly, just hate reading your comments. Thought I might voice it. Peace!
- ChuckinKnucks

Who are you again?

The Flyers needed a center so they pay more than anyone else was willing to long term for a wing. That is a Homer move if I ever saw one. That was my point about JVR. Another potential scorer who doesn't play defense, and who has had trouble playing a full season through his career is not a solution to the Flyers core issues.


- hockeyal

Are you saying that adding a 30 goal LW doesn't make the Flyers a better team? Are they now prevented from making a move to add a center?

Saying Lehtera is good enough to play 4th line center until a kid can step up, or saying he is better that Laughton, isn't high praise, and has nothing to do with whether he is worth $4.7M (to play on the 4th line). They need a veteran D like de Haan who will let the puck movers do their thing, and make the ones who don't ever get near their own goal or behind their own net less of a liability.
- hockeyal

Flyers have Provorov, Gostisbehere, MacDonald, Haag, Gudas and Sanheim.

Where does De Haan fit in there?

Not tanking. The Flyers are not tanking, which is what you are advocating for. THe proper way to run an organization? Right?

Yes, the flyers were mediocre. Please don't do this. They were not consistent all year, and barely made it into the playoffs. And how much above mediocre were they really?

Finally, you have no proof that that sixers tried to lose. We could maybe deduce that, but I would argue they never lost a game on purpose, just didn't field a team that could win consistently. No player went on that court, and threw a game. So therefore, they were trying to win. Regardless of what management was doing.
- ChuckinKnucks

Flyers were and are mediocre as hell. Don’t play the game.

Let’s see what they do this season and hope the upward trend continues. You are talking to a homer fanboy there.

Remember the advice you gave for fans who don't like a team losing? That they don't have to watch the product? Same goes for reading posts.
- MJL

True, but at least you are sort of reasonable when responding. That Schen guy is intolerable. I rescind my previous comment about you. Can I do that? MJL is a great poster.

Not tanking. The Flyers are not tanking, which is what you are advocating for. THe proper way to run an organization? Right?

Yes, the flyers were mediocre. Please don't do this. They were not consistent all year, and barely made it into the playoffs. And how much above mediocre were they really?

Finally, you have no proof that that sixers tried to lose. We could maybe deduce that, but I would argue they never lost a game on purpose, just didn't field a team that could win consistently. No player went on that court, and threw a game. So therefore, they were trying to win. Regardless of what management was doing.
- ChuckinKnucks

I disagree that the Flyers were mediocre. They were a playoff team. You're trying to make my stance against tanking and that conversation into more than it is.

Pleas don't do this and embarrass yourself and try to make a case that the Sixers didn't try and lose. Purposely not putting a team out on the court that can win in order to get higher draft picks is the same thing.

Flyers were and are mediocre as hell. Don’t play the game.

Let’s see what they do this season and hope the upward trend continues. You are talking to a homer fanboy there.
- flyer_nutter

I know but its like killing them with kindness right?

They absolutely intentionally tried to lose.



Flyers were a playoff team last season. They're above mediocre.

What exactly am I advocating for?
- MJL

The median points getter each season is a playoff team

Laughton certainly hasn't met the expectations of a first round pick but he's not a bust. Neither is Morin.

Not sure how Gostisbehere fits in here.
- MJL

You brought up players who are not good 5v5: Ghost.

If you made a list of all 1st round picks of their vintages and ranked them base don your favorite performance metric for their position: scoring, possession, NHL games played would probably be a big one, fair to say they would rank in the bottom 10%. And I'm being generous. It's an indication of how badly the team was depleted of talent by GM Homer that Laughton is even on the team. He is a reserve forward (i.e. #13/14) talent. Morin will never play in the NHL. It would have been the compassionate thing to do to sign him for two years, but the Flyers can't admit when there is no more upside.

You are entitled to characterize taking AHL level talent with a 1st round pick as not "a bust". I disagree.

True, but at least you are sort of reasonable when responding. That Schen guy is intolerable. I rescind my previous comment about you. Can I do that? MJL is a great poster.
- ChuckinKnucks

I'm not interested in what you think about me and I'm not interested in talking about anything other than the sport. When you start talking about posters, you have crossed the line.

Who are you again?
- SuperSchennBros

What does it matter who I am? I have no validation unless I have been posting for the last 10 years?

I'm not interested in what you think about me and I'm not interested in talking about anything other than the sport. When you start talking about posters, you have crossed the line.
- MJL

Jeez! You take yourself a little to seriously, I will back off. Keep the internet streets clean, MJL. I respect your service.

Laughton certainly hasn't met the expectations of a first round pick but he's not a bust. Neither is Morin.

Not sure how Gostisbehere fits in here.
- MJL

Agree with you on Laughton. But not Morin. Look at the careers of every other D man drafted in his 1st round. Not even close. He is bottom of that group by a mile. And this isn’t even considering he will miss most of next year. Hate to say it but he’s a first round bust by any objective measure.

Why did EDM have to overpay Draisaitl? Would be a great trade target if he was 1.5 mil cheaper.