I don't buy it's a business argument. It is a business, and asking your fan base to dole out money for an intentionally bad product isn't good business, to me. You can win without tanking and tank without winning, there is no guaranteed way to build a championship team.

Just my opinion.
- FlyerFan16

During the bad years sixers tickets were going for less than a dollar on some secondary markets. No one watched, and now they have a much more promising product than half of the league. I don't even know why we are talking about tanking, because it cant happen in the NHL anyway. At least not for the same time period as in the NBA.

What does this even mean? Are you dense? How does this have anything to do with my point?
- ChuckinKnucks

Simple question. Answer it

I don't buy it's a business argument. It is a business, and asking your fan base to dole out money for an intentionally bad product isn't good business, to me. You can win without tanking and tank without winning, there is no guaranteed way to build a championship team.

Just my opinion.
- FlyerFan16

This is just my opinion as well, we are all entitled to that. Question for you by winning what do you mean? Like a few games, and get in as an 8th seed? or winning a playoff series? or a championship? Winning is relative, no?

Simple question. Answer it
- rinaldo

Tavares. Answered

I think it's obvious based on your response here who has their panties in a bunch. You brought up the business aspect. My point of view was from a sports perspective. Tanking to me is intentionally trying to lose. Teams spending money today are doing so to make their teams better. To try and win. How can you not see the difference there? I think that is funny. Actually I responded to what you posted, not the other way around.
- MJL

No I am free balling it! Haha, I just always am enamored with people who are so against tanking. Its not like you have to watch the product.

No I am free balling it! Haha, I just always am enamored with people who are so against tanking. Its not like you have to watch the product.
- ChuckinKnucks

So you just take a few years off as a fan huh?

I agree that the Leafs have a few other areas to get better in but that doesn't change the fact that they got better today. Center is one of the most important positions in hockey and they now have two #1 centers along with Kadri which makes them awfully strong up the middle. NHL history is full of young players who clashed with their coaches only to grow and mature and become better players because their coaches pushed them.
- MJL

I never said they didn't get better. I never said Tavares isn't good, of course he is. I just think I would rather have a few more pieces before I sign a free agent like that. I think a good comparsion would have been when we signed Forsberg back in the day. If Primeau never gets hurt, who knows what could have happened. I guess I just think, if I were a leafs fan, I would be a little worried because they are essentially saying their window is now thru the next 4 years. I don't see them winning a cup during that period. And if they aren't going to win a cup, and they lose Nylander or Marner or a key piece for the future, i think that is a short-sighted move. Just my thoughts.

Still waiting for news of the de Haan signing. That's the deal the team needs to make.

Three observations:
1) What is it about the Flyers never being able to admit their 1st round picks are a bust? JVR was our guy so he must be good?

2) Didn't we just jettison a forward who was not very good 5v5 but scored a lot on the PP for a draft pick and a salary suck? JVR = Schenn 2.0, or Vinnie 2.0?

3) The Flyers are loaded for talent at center: Coots, Patrick, Vecchione and Lehtera or Laughton are a good group.

This is just my opinion as well, we are all entitled to that. Question for you by winning what do you mean? Like a few games, and get in as an 8th seed? or winning a playoff series? or a championship? Winning is relative, no?
- ChuckinKnucks

I was referring to championships, however, at least being a true contender. I think the Flyers are building a contender without tanking.

Still waiting for news of the de Haan signing. That's the deal the team needs to make.

Three observations:
1) What is it about the Flyers never being able to admit their 1st round picks are a bust? JVR was our guy so he must be good?

2) Didn't we just jettison a forward who was not very good 5v5 but scored a lot on the PP for a draft pick and a salary suck? JVR = Schenn 2.0, or Vinnie 2.0?

3) The Flyers are loaded for talent at center: Coots, Patrick, Vecchione and Lehtera or Laughton are a good group.
- hockeyal

The difference between Scheens and JVR is one cost only salary cap space and the other netted great assets. Looked at together I like both moves even more!

So you just take a few years off as a fan huh?
- MJL

No, I didn't say that either. I watched the sixers during the bad times. It wasn't too horrible, actually it was kind of fun to see guys like RoCo and TJ make something of themselves. If you like the sport you watch no matter what, and realize that patience is the right approach. It is weird to say, but I think the sixers going and getting LBJ or Kwahi is almost like a strange vindication of sorts. Less about sports, more like a movie. Entertainment for sure. Also want to point out, this can't happen in hockey, and I am very happy the Flyers didn't do this, because they are my number 1.

I was referring to championships, however, at least being a true contender. I think the Flyers are building a contender without tanking.
- FlyerFan16

I agree with you whole-heartedly. I think it is some weird middle ground, but not full on tanking, which I am very thankful for. I just was commenting initially on why I am not so strongly against it in the NBA, and why I think it is interesting to say the least. Good talk

No, I didn't say that either. I watched the sixers during the bad times. It wasn't too horrible, actually it was kind of fun to see guys like RoCo and TJ make something of themselves. If you like the sport you watch no matter what, and realize that patience is the right approach. It is weird to say, but I think the sixers going and getting LBJ or Kwahi is almost like a strange vindication of sorts. Less about sports, more like a movie. Entertainment for sure. Also want to point out, this can't happen in hockey, and I am very happy the Flyers didn't do this, because they are my number 1.
- ChuckinKnucks

What does this mean then? "Its not like you have to watch the product."

Still waiting for news of the de Haan signing. That's the deal the team needs to make.

Three observations:
1) What is it about the Flyers never being able to admit their 1st round picks are a bust? JVR was our guy so he must be good?

2) Didn't we just jettison a forward who was not very good 5v5 but scored a lot on the PP for a draft pick and a salary suck? JVR = Schenn 2.0, or Vinnie 2.0?

3) The Flyers are loaded for talent at center: Coots, Patrick, Vecchione and Lehtera or Laughton are a good group.
- hockeyal

What first round pick was a bust that the Flyers haven't admitted to?

The problem with that center group is it's not known if there is a 3rd line center in that group.

Schenn not being good at 5 on 5 was a myth.

Still waiting for news of the de Haan signing. That's the deal the team needs to make.

Three observations:
1) What is it about the Flyers never being able to admit their 1st round picks are a bust? JVR was our guy so he must be good?

2) Didn't we just jettison a forward who was not very good 5v5 but scored a lot on the PP for a draft pick and a salary suck? JVR = Schenn 2.0, or Vinnie 2.0?

3) The Flyers are loaded for talent at center: Coots, Patrick, Vecchione and Lehtera or Laughton are a good group.
- hockeyal

How exactly was JVR a bust? May not be the 2nd best player in that draft but no where near a bust.

It was 2 first round draft picks and they had plenty of room for the salary dump. Can't make a determination on that trade for at least another 3-4 years.

You just included the salary suck in your "loaded for talent at center" comment. Vecchione is unproven in the NHL and they seem to be reluctant to give Laughton more responsibility, not sure why. Still think they need to add a 3c that's good on the PK.

What does this mean then? "Its not like you have to watch the product."
- MJL

You said you are against tanking, I believe you called it "disgraceful"? I only commented that I think it is interesting that you are totally against one approach in making a team better, but seem to be pro overpaying for players to win. They are both essentially business decisions. I think both are okay, and if you are a fan than you will watch regardless. But at the end of the day, the tanking only lasts so long right? I don't blame anyone who didn't watch, I personally did and thought it was fun. And now it is fun in a different way.

Just like we all know the Flyers aren't going to win the cup this year, so I wouldn't blame anyone who didn't watch until they are true contender. For me personally I will watch because I have a strange obsession with Philly sports, like most of us on this board do. I don't know, I guess I think it is interesting, not really a strong opinion one way or the other.

Carolina signs Mrazek, their goaltending just went from bad to worse.
- BiggE

You know what? It wouldn't shock me in the least if Mrazek complete fell apart or if he became unbearable.

You said you are against tanking, I believe you called it "disgraceful"? I only commented that I think it is interesting that you are totally against one approach in making a team better, but seem to be pro overpaying for players to win. They are both essentially business decisions. I think both are okay, and if you are a fan than you will watch regardless. But at the end of the day, the tanking only lasts so long right? I don't blame anyone who didn't watch, I personally did and thought it was fun. And now it is fun in a different way.

Just like we all know the Flyers aren't going to win the cup this year, so I wouldn't blame anyone who didn't watch until they are true contender. For me personally I will watch because I have a strange obsession with Philly sports, like most of us on this board do. I don't know, I guess I think it is interesting, not really a strong opinion one way or the other.
- ChuckinKnucks

You keep bringing up false equivalencies. I don't believe that any professional sports team should ever intentionally try to lose.
Your statement that someone doesn't have to watch the product suggests that a fan can take time off from being a fan until they get better again. The Flyers have never intentionally tried to lose.

Actually, it was Farabee & Frost. But, I dislike this loser too, so keep going with the sausage jokes
- ChuckinKnucks

I've never even seen either one of you on here before today

The NBA and the NHL are two different sports.
- MJL

THEY ARE!?

No I am free balling it! Haha, I just always am enamored with people who are so against tanking. Its not like you have to watch the product.
- ChuckinKnucks

This guy called me a loser today. You are a literal and proud loser and admit it.

I don't even care if I get banned. Wow!

I’m wondering if they have something else brewing. Probably grasping at straws and it’s nothing, but it’s odd that they haven’t announced the JVR signing yet.

EDIT: They just announced it lol.
- Flyers1218

Hextall said he had printer problems.

THEY ARE!?
- PhillySportsGuy

Yes they are, and you should consider that when you repeatedly try and mesh the two.

THEY ARE!?
- PhillySportsGuy

LeBron’s Corsi rel is awesome!